Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cruijff Vs Ajax

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Cruijff Vs Ajax

    I don’t know whether you’ve heard/followed the Ajax situation: Cruijff trying to take over Ajax (which I do not mind as the current management hasn’t done anything in the recent years, but to fail).

    Usually in Holland people “agree” with everything Cruijff says and does and nobody really (dares) to say anything negative about him or point out his mistakes as he’s a living legend and, more importantly, has a large network of papers, TV channels and journalist backing him up (mafia bazi faghat male irano italia nist

    However, today I read an article in paper which was "anti"-Cruijff, something you never see or hear. But since there's a lot of (bad) publicity around Ajax and Cruijff people are breaking their silence (or at least are using the opportunity to dish out).

    The Article starts with comparing Cruijff and his disciples (Bergkamp and Jonker) who try to take over Ajax with Goodfellas, which is a funny part but I’m gonna save you (and myself from typing) that.

    But the interesting thing about the article is that it points out the “plot –holes” in the myth that has become Cruijff (and his total football). Furthermore, there are plenty of resemblances with our own football personalities like karimi, Daei etc. (more on that later).

    The critical piece starts with: “There was only one story about Cruijff upon till yesterday; mythological story full of heroism and visionary acts.” In that story Cruijff's not only the best player of the world, ever, he’s also the savior (Cruijff’s nickname in Ajax and Barca): first of Ajax then of Barcelona, then of Ajax again and even for a whole year that of Feyenoord (the archrival of Ajax). He also was the savior of Dutch football as a whole and last but not least the savior and the creator of the greatest thing the world has ever seen: the “tiktak” football of Barcelona now.

    With the passing of time, so the writer claims, the other stories about Cruijff’s unpredictability, righteousness (well at least in his own mind), and ego-centrism were forgotten. The people who remembered that Cruijff abandoned the Dutch NT when it needed him the most (remember Karimi? Guess it isn’t an Iranian thing) died one by one.

    Other (sides) of the stories that you never hear are:

    • The exclusion of Willie van der Kuylen (the PSV midfielder who scored more goals than Cruijff as an striker for Ajax) and Jan van Beveren (who the writer claims to be the best keeper of the world in that time) from the WC 1974 roster. They didn’t “fit”in Cruijff’s “vision” (mind you, Cruijff wasn’t the coach back then. Remember Daei and Branco?)

    The writer points out that nobody ever wonders whether their exclusion from the squad might have been just that little push Holland needed to become the champions.

    • Another story that never is told with all its details: Cruijff became the champion during his first year with Barca. The 0-5 win against Real is the most memorable feat.
    But that’s where the story tellers stop with their story. They forget to mention that that the next 4 seasons Barca didn’t become the champion. And the story tellers in Real and Germany know another version of that story: Gunter Netzer, the biggest star of Real, was injured the year Cruijff became champion with Barca.

    • Another story is when Cruijff joined Feyenoord for just one year and became the champion with them. But there are few people who ask themselves whether it was Cruijff who made Feyenoord the champion or the group of players like: Gullit, Nielsen, Jeliazkov, Houtman and Valke. Cause even without Cruijff they would become champions.

    Which is what they did a year (and the following years from 1986 to 1990) later when most players and technical staff went to PSV, as Cruijff didn’t want to be contradicted by coaching staff or other players.

    • Let’s look at his coaching career at Ajax: people always claim that Cruijff “discovered” van Basten, but nobody remembers that he fired Rijkaard and bought Sorensen to replace him.

    When Cruijff came to Ajax, Ajax was the reigning champ, but the next 3 years under his leadership PSV became the champ, each year with larger (and growing) points and goal differences compared to Ajax. PSV score 60 more goals in 1988 than Ajax (there goes the always attacking and scoring myth about Cruijff’s teams).

    • And then there is Barca: Cruijff becomes the coach and wins the European Cup. Nobody mentions the players he had as his disposal: Romario, Stiochkov and Laudrup.

    Two years later Cruijff again reaches the Finals in EC, this time against AC Milan. Before the match, Cruijff predicts a “football lecture” for the “old fashion and static” AC Milan. The Final score: 4-0 for Ac Milan.

    • In the mean time, Cruijff became bigger than Cruijff. Cruijff is an image, a symbol that refers to vision and beauty in football. The main reason for that is the media (and his network within media) which likes to tell "beautiful” stories. And this way the power of Cruijff spread out.

    Even the great and successful coach, Guus Hiddink, had to yield under (Cruijff ‘s)media pressure and adapted the Cruijff's favourite 4-3-3 system, and had to play with Cruijff’s son (Jordy) on right wing. With catastrophic results.

    You can never win from Cruijff…..even when he’s wrong.

    I just wanted to share this article with you as I thought it was nice to hear the other side of the story for once, from someone who doesn’t blindly joins the bandwagon.
    And then there were the examples (exclusion of players, etc.) that we as Iranians know very well but even on this forum is reputed by the fans of players who act like Cruijff in TM.

    #2
    Nice thread, thanks for taking the time to type that up.

    Several people enjoy such a status which allows all their successes to be viewed to be a natural consequence of their competence, and all their failures to be attributed to external events and factors.

    Of course, this sort of cognitive bias is not confined to football...
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Comment


      #3
      interesting situation in holland. i remember i spent the better part of a summer trying to get the Cruyff's turn down in an actual game.

      PFDC 10 Years & Counting
      We thank and support Mr.Kamran Delan for many years of dedication and service to Iranian Football Community.
      For some nice Lounge & Chillout head to -->http://www.youtube.com/user/mkbf86

      Comment


        #4
        Eventhough I think Cruijff could help Ajax way better than the guys at helm now (well he couldn't do worse), my point was the following:

        1. If these kind of things happens in a country like Holland (star player using his influence to keep the players and coaches out of the team or even the NT, or dictate the formation and roster even when he's not active anymore) it could also happen in a country like Iran. So when all the signs point to the fact that a certain player is misusing his power/influence to keep players from TM, it shouldn't be laughed off and ridiculed by the fans if that player right away (as it happened/happens all the time here).

        2. We can't glorify a player or a coach soley based on the results and statistic without taking in account other factors and circumstances those results were achieved in.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Babak agha View Post
          Eventhough I think Cruijff could help Ajax way better than the guys at helm now (well he couldn't do worse), my point was the following:

          1. If these kind of things happens in a country like Holland (star player using his influence to keep the players and coaches out of the team or even the NT, or dictate the formation and roster even when he's not active anymore) it could also happen in a country like Iran. So when all the signs point to the fact that a certain player is misusing his power/influence to keep players from TM, it shouldn't be laughed off and ridiculed by the fans if that player right away (as it happened/happens all the time here).

          2. We can't glorify a player or a coach soley based on the results and statistic without taking in account other factors and circumstances those results were achieved in.
          Dear Babak......
          We discussed Cruijff , before in a different thread if you remember, right here on F+...........which we got no where.....
          Your above statement, ( which is consistant with your previouse opinion of Cruijff )..is very unfare....
          Cruijff, is not Ali Daei.......he has achived more as manager, that he did when he was just a player.......and his qualifications, are far more than a big name player........and he did that, in other countries where he was less admired than his own country where he was a legend........
          He does deserve a credit, for not just relying on his playing fame .

          Comment


            #6
            Dear ZZgloo,

            I don't think there are many people who would dare to repute the class/value/quality of Cruijff as a player. The article does point out to the fact that during his final days (and even during his best days, he was surrounded by very good players in his teams and NT).

            The article however does point out the fact that Cruijff's coaching career wan't as good as some would want us to believe. Here in Holland he's definitely not considered to be one of the top 5 Dutch coaches (not even by his fans).

            But I think you didn't get my point:

            In this article the writer points out to some of Cruijff's acts that are very similar to things happening in Iran all the time.

            Like influencing the roster, coaching staff structure, etc. etc.

            When these very same issued are raised by some members here, whether rightly so or not, it is laughed and ridiculed by others. Claiming that such things would never happen and the people who believe in this "theories" are not 100% in the head (that was the clean version )

            I just shared this article, beside the fact I though it was a good read, because it shows that this stuff do happen in real life.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for explaining...babak jaan....
              So, it appears " Mafia Bazi ", is not just Iranian Phynamina !!
              nevertheless......one difference between Cruijff and other currant Dutch coahes,may be his association with Dutch Football pride !!, to me, from nationalist point of view, he has solid support.....and he is known to be less after money,and more after production.......although, his internal conections must be far better than other coaches,and hence, mafia Bazi.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanx for the thread, I just saw it now.

                There are some things I don't agree with, but it's way too late for me to write a detailed response to it. If you are still interested, I will try to make some time free soon to respond to it.
                Persian Pride running through my veins!

                Esteghlal for life!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well the things that I've wrote aren't made up by me, but are facts given by a journalist... But please go ahead if you can ad something to it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Amin what happened?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Babak agha View Post
                      Amin what happened?
                      Yeah sorry there are a lot of points to address; I haven't had the time yet
                      Persian Pride running through my veins!

                      Esteghlal for life!!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        First you say a few, then a lot. Now I'm confused, haha just kidding.
                        Anyways if it's too much trouble, just forget about it. My main point was that party bazi in football isn't as impossible as some may think.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X