lil cliff and cliffhanger

[St_Mark]

عراق یک صخره کوچک برای ماست

علیرضا منصوریان

There are plenty of culprits among IFF officials, coaches, managers and player(s) responsible for a disastrous and embarrassing failure of Omid team.
Mansoorian has to bear share of responsibility for this fiasco.
Accidental coach.
His first job was with Pas e Hamadan with Oliaei. Even his good friendship with staunch Esteghlal Oliaei did not saved him from being fired. His second break was with Qhotbi with TM and when Ghotbi left he remained at TM job where first met Queiroz. Those two jobs create an illusion of experience at highest level IPl and TM that tilt Queiroz views in his favor when he requested proposal resume for Omid job.
Few IFF officials, Oliae, Fzadeh lobbied for him to be Queiroz assistant with TM, and when that failed Omid selection for Queiroz was logical.
Mansoorian landed biggest job of his young career with success at his previous job but mostly by relationship and lobby.
He failed with Omid and bear responsibility for embarrassing defeat (Iraq victory chat at Azadi).
He is young and should he accept his share of responsibility and learn from it, he still can improve and hopefully become a successful coach.
There is no hope for like of Kafashian, Nabi, Moeini, Taj... but there is hope for him should he learn and move forward.
Transition:
When he became omid coach, he should have kept close relationship with previous coaches and ask their assistant given uncertainty about Omid situation, and fast approaching games.
He should have selected more experience assistance rather than like of Khoramghah.
He was advised by many to keep few of Assistant coach who has been for years with the team but he refused. If he has kept even one of assistant, he could have reminded him about Kamybinia.
Selection:
How did he select his players?
Did he watch previous games?
Did he seek advice of previous coaches?
Did he read Omid's game reports?
If he has read or watched at least last two games he should have known about Kamal.

It is very interesting Mansoorian did not select Kamyabinia in his first and long list or in short list. He added two names Kamyabinia and Khalilazad after media criticized him.
Kamyabinia was starter for Rahahan and starter during Peyrovani ian and Afazeli, played in almost all games as DM, but Mansoorian skipped him and selected a 17 years old player who was never played a minute game for Omid or IPl before.
Why did he not choose him? Did he ever watch his game? Why did he invite him later?
Did he invite him without watching Omid video game?
Azadari
When he was told of disaster, it appeared he has panicked and done the worse, demoralize players.
According to him. His assistant Khoramgah has cried 4 hours! And most players cried for hours. What kind of motivation speech will cause that?
They are young, strong and star players rather than “zekr mosibat " they should have been motivated positively to go and fight as there is no tomorrow but there were no fighting spirit seen from players.
Winning tactics:
He knows he had to win big, but he selected same defensive formation while Iraq played with 3 forwards, Mansoorian stayed with 2 DM. It is well known both Marzban and Aghazamani are good DM but have terrible accuracy for long balls but that did not prevent Mansoorian from changing that assignment.
If his intention was to win big nowhere that was obvious from his game plan.
He is young, inexperience and emotional. He simply could not handle crisis and demoralized players.
He spend too much worries about his spies in Iraq , attending ceremonies , news conferences that left him less time to focus on his team.
Both in Arbil and Tehran, Iraqi head coached refused to attend news conferences and send one of his assistant . He said he is busy with his team and made appearances in Tehran after the victory.
Hopefully he will learn and become a better coach

[St_Mark]

Afterthoughts

Watching his news conference after the game:
1-One expect after returning to Tehran, in preparation for second leg coach should (must) watch , review and analyze the first game for better understanding and correction for second game.
If Mansourian has done that then he should have been alarmed by what Mirzaei reported in the game.
Mansoorian himself referred to comment of Mirzaei about 2 cards of Kamal. Why he was not alarmed earlier? Did he go and asked IFF?
He has not done that otherwise they had few days time to prepare different tactics.( he said even at 2:00 PM they they were confused as what tactic they should apply.

2- He said , someone (spy) told Iraqi player after Min 32 that Iran has lost 3-0. He said he realized that from the way Iraqi played after min 32 aggressively !.He is delusional here.

3- He said if in Iraq Karim or Milad had scored third goal, in Iran he should have scored 9 goals. Whatever reason he has to say that this silly talk is clear indication of his immaturity.
Mazdak Mirzaei said, he was aware of 2 yellow cards. He was told by one of previous coach.

Patriotism.

Leaving aside responsibilities of IFF officials.
Previous coaches and Managers had moral obligation to alarm someone when they saw Kamal’s name in the list for Iraq first game.
List of player for that game was announced an hour earlier ( we did that too hour earlier in forum) . Did previous coaches managers watching the first game? Didn’t they see Kamal clearly on the bench? They all knew about cards
Why they did not informed IFF, Media someone to prevent mistakes by Mansoorian?
Afazeli is very good at following the games and I will be surprised if he was not watching first game live. He knew about 2 cards and if he was watching he should have notified someone. If he was not watching, did he not read about game after ? Did he not see Kamal’s name? Why did he not quickly inform TM so they have time to adjust?

[Doctor DOOM]

as much as I believe mansourian was a bit inexperienced and young to get a national team duty, I still maintain the biggest reason for our elimination was IFF and not what transpired on the pitch this thursday.

and I think it is rather unfair to pick on mansourian who is responsible in a very minute way (I'd say around 10-15% at fault) while leaving out the biggest culprit in this clusterfu*k : IFF and IFF's bosses in IR.

such articles, I believe, are in service of those guilty parties in IR and IFF who want to divert the attention from themselves and shift the blame to others. we know the gov't has plenty of media and journalists at their service and command to do their bidding. this (shameless) article is one of them.

although mansorian was at fault for 10-15% ... but even then, I think we could have advanced had we gone into this game still 1-0 ahead. and I'd say mansourian was correct in believing in his team that they'd advance.

[Kaiser Amir]

Bottom line:

No coach and no players could recover from a SHOCKING NEWS such as a 1-0 win being turned into a 0-3 defeat a few hours before the return match.

Thats simply impossible, especially when we are talking about:

- U-23 players.
- An inexperienced coach like Mansourian, who is no Mourinho. Expecting him to revive the players after such a devastating news is ridicules.


I remember a similar case happened in Romania, in 1996, if I'm not mistaking:

It was a UEFA Cup tie between Steaua Bucharest and PSG.
Steaua won the first leg, at home, 3-2.
However, a couple of the days after this result, Steaua were awarded a 3-0 win because PSG had used an ineligible player!

What happened in the return leg?

PSG won 5-0 and qualified!
Of course, that PSG side had:

A- World-class players like brazilian Rai.
B- More time to accomodate to the shocking news.

To this day though, many claim that Steaua simply gave the french the qualification in exchange for a lot of money

[St_Mark]

as much as I believe mansourian was a bit inexperienced and young to get a national team duty, I still maintain the biggest reason for our elimination was IFF and not what transpired on the pitch this thursday.

and I think it is rather unfair to pick on mansourian who is responsible in a very minute way (I'd say around 10-15% at fault) while leaving out the biggest culprit in this clusterfu*k : IFF and IFF's bosses in IR.

such articles, I believe, are in service of those guilty parties in IR and IFF who want to divert the attention from themselves and shift the blame to others. we know the gov't has plenty of media and journalists at their service and command to do their bidding. this (shameless) article is one of them.

although mansorian was at fault for 10-15% ... but even then, I think we could have advanced had we gone into this game still 1-0 ahead. and I'd say mansourian was correct in believing in his team that they'd advance.

My intention was not to show rank and grade responsibilities
As a head coach He has responsibilities and he should be judged base on that.


He miserably failed to follow procedures or read simple and obvious signals.
Example:
I rephrase one of his negligence that is so obvious

1-He said in video , he was informed sometimes around 11.00 and at 2:00 was clueless as what tactic he has to resort to.
First game was on Sunday ( June 19) & second game (june23) . Any decent coach after first game and before next game with same team will review his match so he can evaluate both teams and players performances.

If he has done this basic task he should have known about 2 cards since Mirzaei said that on live report of first game.
Either he did not watch, could not comprehend, careless ,or did not understand consequence.

Most coach not only review games but watched the games with their assists and analysts.
If he done his job he had at least 2 days to adjust and have a thoughtful plan.


This was just an example and has nothing to do with IFF or previous Coaches or player himself.

[St_Mark]

Bottom line:
No coach and no players could recover from a SHOCKING NEWS such as a 1-0 win being turned into a 0-3 defeat a few hours before the return match.
Thats simply impossible, especially when we are talking about:
- U-23 players.
- An inexperienced coach like Mansourian, who is no Mourinho. Expecting him to revive the players after such a devastating news is ridicules.
I remember a similar case happened in Romania, in 1996, if I'm not mistaking:
It was a UEFA Cup tie between Steaua Bucharest and PSG.
Steaua won the first leg, at home, 3-2.
However, a couple of the days after this result, Steaua were awarded a 3-0 win because PSG had used an ineligible player!
What happened in the return leg?
PSG won 5-0 and qualified!
Of course, that PSG side had:
A- World-class players like brazilian Rai.
B- More time to accomodate to the shocking news.
To this day though, many claim that Steaua simply gave the french the qualification in exchange for a lot of money

Dear
I don,t know if you have watched first game or you agree with me about this, but Iran was even capable of defeating Iraq with much larger margin in Iraq.

I realize not easy to overcome such a shock , but i disagree with you if you think Mansoorian approach of demoralizing player was a solution.

I think an experienced capable coach could have prepared them much better
His own tactic and formation did not changed from first game while it was a different battle with different attitude and game plan from opponent.
Once again this is just one example of his immaturity without ignoring his bigger problems or corrupt IFF vices.

Afterthought:

He was about 4 months head coach at Pas before let go.
During that short period, Pas lost a game 0:3 because of use of illegal player ( Pas _Shahin) .

[Doctor DOOM]

My intention was not to show rank and grade responsibilities
As a head coach He has responsibilities and he should be judged base on that.


He miserably failed to follow procedures or read simple and obvious signals.
Example:
I rephrase one of his negligence that is so obvious

1-He said in video , he was informed sometimes around 11.00 and at 2:00 was clueless as what tactic he has to resort to.
First game was on Sunday ( June 19) & second game (june23) . Any decent coach after first game and before next game with same team will review his match so he can evaluate both teams and players performances.

If he has done this basic task he should have known about 2 cards since Mirzaei said that on live report of first game.
Either he did not watch, could not comprehend, careless ,or did not understand consequence.

Most coach not only review games but watched the games with their assists and analysts.
If he done his job he had at least 2 days to adjust and have a thoughtful plan.


This was just an example and has nothing to do with IFF or previous Coaches or player himself.

here's the difference between me and you.
forgive me if I dont toe the "official" line and focus on the smaller culprits and divert the attention from the MASSIVE ONE, which is the officials.

what's next? we blame kamyabynia for "not announcing he recieved 2 cards 4-5 months back"? mind you, the IFF is actually doing this very thing!!!

بیانیه فدراسیون فوتبال راجع به شکست ایران مقابل عراق:
كاميابي نيا بايد مي گفت، كه نگفت!

of all the lowlife, underhand tactics these bastards resort to, to divert the attention!

but I guess in a country where the government officials blame the victims of rape for the rape instead of the rapists, this shd come as no surprise, eh?


back to our discussion: I still say it is useless and unnecessary to keep talking about those who had a small hand in this mess while the BIGGEST CULPRIT is let off the hook and is still carrying on.

once we deal with the biggest evil, THEN we can discuss the small ppl. and until then, it is against DECENCY to point at anyone else (even if they had a small part in this mess)

*************

btw, LOL at the notion that a COACH while reviewing a game shd actually listen to the commentators for ... what? advice and nuggets of info????!!!!!
I doubt coaches would even bother with the audio as it is distracting from what they're trying to do.

so talking about "listening to mirzaei" while reviewing tactics and strategies is just too hilarious to be taken seriously. sorry mate


lol
this sounds like blaming a fat passenger for taking a "too big a dump" in an airplane that crashed, instead of the freaking airline that actually allowed a malfunctioning plane to take off!

[Doctor DOOM]

Bottom line:

No coach and no players could recover from a SHOCKING NEWS such as a 1-0 win being turned into a 0-3 defeat a few hours before the return match.

Thats simply impossible, especially when we are talking about :

- U-23 players.
- An inexperienced coach like Mansourian, who is no Mourinho. Expecting him to revive the players after such a devastating news is ridicules.

absolutely spot on.
right on the money

anyone would feel gutted after such a 180 turn around of fortunes. ANY ONE. even the best players/coaches in the world ... let alone our kind of youth and inexperienced coaches.

in fact, if we had ONE decent & fair bone in our bodies we shd applaud the young (with emphasis on the "young") lads for actually taking to the field and actually moving those heavy legs with such a tremendously massive mental burden on their young minds.

[St_Mark]

here's the difference between me and you.
forgive me if I dont toe the "official" line and focus on the smaller culprits and divert the attention from the MASSIVE ONE, which is the officials.

what's next? we blame kamyabynia for "not announcing he recieved 2 cards 4-5 months back"? mind you, the IFF is actually doing this very thing!!!

بیانیه فدراسیون فوتبال راجع به شکست ایران مقابل عراق:
كاميابي نيا بايد مي گفت، كه نگفت!

of all the lowlife, underhand tactics these bastards resort to, to divert the attention!

but I guess in a country where the government officials blame the victims of rape for the rape instead of the rapists, this shd come as no surprise, eh?


back to our discussion: I still say it is useless and unnecessary to keep talking about those who had a small hand in this mess while the BIGGEST CULPRIT is let off the hook and is still carrying on.

once we deal with the biggest evil, THEN we can discuss the small ppl. and until then, it is against DECENCY to point at anyone else (even if they had a small part in this mess)

Nobody has stopped you from blaming IFF of whoever you like to, but this topic is about responsibilities of head coach.

If you have read my posts, i have blamed IFF first but that does not mean there is no fault of coach and player.
As for our differences as you see it, not worth my response.

[Doctor DOOM]

well, then why stop at mansourian?
lets blame their boots and boot manufacturers for not foreseeing such a situation and not designing the boots for proper "back-heels"
lets blame the lads' hair stylists for not thinking "aerodynamically"
lets blame the jersey co. for not making it slicker, therefore adding to the lads' pace
lets blame the parents of those poor lads for not rearing them like freaking hard, cold, emotionless ppl who dont get affected by such news
and lets not stop at parents. their teachers too are to be blamed as well.
lets blame the weather and rain.
lets blame the grounds keeper.
and more.

why, they all have to bear a part of the blame. and perhaps deserve a thread of their own!!!!!

oh, and lets not forget the fat guy on the plane. and his wife and the restaurant he visited the night before the flight.
very important

you all might want to listen to dadkan, near the end of the conversation (minute 7:30 onwards):

[St_Mark]

well, then why stop at mansourian?
lets blame their boots and boot manufacturers for not foreseeing such a situation and not designing the boots for proper "back-heels"
lets blame the lads' hair stylists for not thinking "aerodynamically"
lets blame the jersey co. for not making it slicker, therefore adding to the lads' pace
lets blame the parents of those poor lads for not rearing them like freaking hard, cold, emotionless ppl who dont get affected by such news
and lets not stop at parents. their teachers too are to be blamed as well.
lets blame the weather and rain.
lets blame the grounds keeper.
and more.
why, they all have to bear a part of the blame. and perhaps deserve a thread of their own!!!!!
oh, and lets not forget the fat guy on the plane. and his wife and the restaurant he visited the night before the flight.
very important

Once again"
My topic was to talk about Head coach responsibilities.
I have said IFF officials ( the most) , Omid head coaches and Managers, even players share some responsibilities.
Whoever caused this disaster or could have prevented but failed to do so is guilty of some degree.
Why i chose topic of Mansourian?
Because he is head coach of the team with very unique responsibilities and authorities.
I am sure you know all these and more yet bringing all that jazz fat & lady..... into this.
being angry, frustrated, trying to make it personal won't do anyone any good.

[Doctor DOOM]

oh .. I forgot one more culprit: our own houman afazeli.
he is to be blamed for not telling ali mansour about kamyabikia's 2 yellows. right?
lets add him to the list of 23154 factor and ppl who bear responsibility.

but seriously, I wouldnt waste my time blaming someone who has a very minute role in this fiasco (I even think my earlier 10-15% assessment was too harsh on ali mansour. given the impact of such news on the team).

IFF and its bosses bear AT LEAST 90% of the responsibility. at least.
and I wont bring myself down to IFF's level to blame others when we have such a culprit still existing and shamelessly spreading the blame. my principles dont allow me to do that.

to each, his own

[St_Mark]

oh .. I forgot one more culprit: our own houman afazeli.
he is to be blamed for not telling ali mansour about kamyabikia's 2 yellows. right?
lets add him to the list of 23154 factor and ppl who bear responsibility.

but seriously, I wouldnt waste my time blaming someone who has a very minute role in this fiasco (I even think my earlier 10-15% assessment was too harsh on ali mansour. given the impact of such news on the team).

IFF and its bosses bear AT LEAST 90% of the responsibility. at least.
and I wont bring myself down to IFF's level to blame others when we have such a culprit still existing and shamelessly spreading the blame. my principles dont allow me to do that.

to each, his own

Now that you mention Houman:

Sure he may indeed share some responsibility. I hope if he read this , post his version and response.

This is an event that reported by Kamal & Houman

After away game in kyrghizstan, in airport Kamal asked Afazaeli about his 2 cards.
Kamal asked since they have advanced to first round would AFC wave his cards?

According to Kamal, Afazeli said may be yes, may be not and he will ask and let him know.

According To Afazeli, he told kamal, may be yes may be not we will inquire about it.
( Later on Afazeli said by "we" i mean IFF )

Next day Afazeli resigned and gone.
Would you think issue was not important for both party to follow up?

When Afazeli was selected he kept all assistant from Payrovani time since they have worked with Omid for years. When Mansourian was elected he did not keep any previous coach.


Mansouriann DID NOT select Kamyabinai (as I mentioned earlier) among rosters but he invited him after public criticism from few including Afazeli.

I will be very surprised if Afazeli did not see list for Iraq game . If he knew why not informed anyone. According to Mazdak Mirzaei one of former coach told him before the game. Why that coach or Mazdak did not tell Hajilu.

This disaster could have been prevented if some involve did responsible things


I hope Afazeli himself set the record correct.

[Doctor DOOM]

haji, before taking off (takhteh gaaz) on houman and probably making a case against him, I also mentioned the players stylists, jersey & boot manufacturers, ground keeper, khoda, zameen and asemoon and a whole bunch of others.

but writing paragraphs and paragraphs on these WILL NOT CHANGE AN IOTA OF THE FACT THAT MORE THAN 90% OF THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS F*CK UP IS ON IFF AND ITS BOSSES. and it is beyond decency to pick on the smaller ppl while the likes of kafashian, taaj, aliabadi, nabi, torabian, saeidloo, moeini, afsharzadeh, .... are not shredded to small pieces first.
BEYOND DECENCY


But, as I said, to each, his own

[St_Mark]

haji, before taking off (takhteh gaaz) on houman and probably making a case against him, I also mentioned the players stylists, jersey & boot manufacturers, ground keeper, khoda, zameen and asemoon and a whole bunch of others.

but writing paragraphs and paragraphs on these WILL NOT CHANGE AN IOTA OF THE FACT THAT MORE THAN 90% OF THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS F*CK UP IS ON IFF AND ITS BOSSES. and it is beyond decency to pick on the smaller ppl while the likes of kafashian, taaj, aliabadi, nabi, torabian, saeidloo, moeini, afsharzadeh, .... are not shredded to small pieces first.
BEYOND DECENCY


But, as I said, to each, his own

It is only you doing propaganda here.
I opened this thread to discuss Mansourian.
If you care to take about players stylists, jersey & boot manufacturers, ground keeper, IFF rest of your list go ahead start a new threat trash them as you like .
Trying to mix your propaganda into this thread won’t work.