Barcelona f.c. defeats Madrid Zoo f.c.

[Babak agha]

In science you've got something called paradigm, as you all are aware of. A paradigm can hold as long as there are no counter arguments or facts presented. But as soon as a valid counter argument is presented, the paradigm looses it values and you should look for a new theoretical or philosophical frame work.

Well that is unless you belong to the Newton type of people, who comes up with exceptions, excuses, lies and illogical arguments, trying to keep the paradigm alive, instead of agreeing upon a new one.

The same goes for logical arguments, you can't call Abedzadeh the best left wing in the history of football, while trying to find excuses, exception, reasons, and circumstances where this argument holds instead of shifting towards the counter arguments about Abedzadeh being the best left wing in the world.

If your arguments needs a lot of "sub-arguments", settings, exceptions, etc to make sense: it's a poor argument.

[Doctor DOOM]

Jigar,

First, don't change the subject, we ...........




Come back to the topic, despite all those articles you found and posted here, you can not deny Real Madrid is among the top 4 teams in the world (to me among the top two) and Mourinho is among the top 5 best coaches in the world, OR CAN YOU?



Real played the best game against Barca in the last 6-7 games facing them. Over all, they were slightly better. I think the upcoming season is going to be a close one.

Cheers,

I didnt change any subject. YOUR reasoning was his fees as proof of his quality. and I showed mere "salary" does not demonstrate quality.




secondly, given the amount of money poured into it and the players they have hired, if real was NOT among the top 4 teams, then we could have raised an eyebrow. then all that busload of superstars shd go sell potatos in the vegetable market.
you put kaka, ronaldo, castillas, ozil, khedira, alonso, ramos, higuain, de'maria, benzema, pepe, ... in condom-sazi qom and even this club WOULD be among the top 4

you see, quality comes to the fore when you dont have 20 superstars and you still succeed.




and finally, I agree. Real, in the frist leg did play better than barca as was already expressed. which makes them (under moan-rinho's suggestion) resorting to violent, rash tackles and dirty gamesmanship EVEN MORE unnecessary.
and that is why I point my finger at moan-rinho for bad judgment, bad strategy and horrible psychology.
but I guess once you develop such a massive complex about your rival who keeps on defeating you and making you look bad, despite your monumental ego and even more monumental assets, then after a while you just break, mentally and you become desperate

[Hajagha]

^We are getting some where asal.

So, Real is among top 4 then. And there are some amazing players in their squad.

Do you agree there is a possibility that the forth team in the world can beat the top team in the world in any day of the year?

If yes, there is no need for name calling, we gotta respect the strong opponent.

Coming back to Mourinho:

Is he a coach?

Do you know any other coach with so much achievement?

Come on man, he must have some thing winning trophies year-in year-out. I agree that he is not among the loveliest coaches in the world, still he is F%$king good.

Cheers,

[maij]

Majid jan,

Is there any perfect world that I am not aware of?


I think comparing Escobar to Mourinho is unfair with due all respect to you.

Escobar is from a country that can be compared to Iran (the only country that the head of football federation has no idea about Liverpool). Such a federation will pay millions to a coach because he was seen in TV in ahmadinejad-inauguration. Who did hire him? Ali Abadi, the one currently is the head of OPEC and talks English this way:

Well, Reza Jan , I will use your own words to answer this unfair comparison...Is there any perfect world that I am not aware of?

Kohsat omad ?


But seriously , my dear Brother. I already qualified my statement by saying I can give you many examples in this part of the world of the subject matter. Naturally , I can judge and be sure of the facts within my own environment.

I still insist on saying that the paycheck is NOT always the ultimate gauge of one's competency, morality and skill. In the West , it is of course more reasonable and systematic, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is faultless.

They are as hypocrites as the Arabs and our own people when it comes to self interest and big bucks. There is simply no way at all, that the Brits would be unaware of the sources of Abramovic's wealth and its legality. Having such an abundance of easy money , you can pay a guy ten times his worth and slap a label on him saying he is the best! It does not cut it for me.

In the grand schemes of things , I rate Mourinho , well below Ferguson , Wenger , Guardiola , Hiddnik. I don't use the winning the title with so many clubs as the yard stick....but then again , this is another subject.

[Hajagha]

In the grand schemes of things , I rate Mourinho , well below Ferguson , Wenger , Guardiola , Hiddnik. I don't use the winning the title with so many clubs as the yard stick....but then again , this is another subject.

Agh Majid gol (and khoshgel)

I myself don't rate coaches based on trophies, results or salaries alone, but I can't deny these are the items to formulate the ranking even a lose one. (I talk about the real world, not a scam one like Iran, no Ghotbi for counter argument, he was paid for his "dastmal")

In my book as I stated several times, the best coach in the world is Wenger as almost every one becomes better player after they leave him. He hasn't lifted any trophy for quite long time, nor highest paid among others. Still, he is among highest paid ones.

My favorite player is Fabergas (not Messi, Xavi, Inistia or Villa) and again he is not the highest paid and hasn't lifted any trophy while he was in Arsenal.

Saying that, the trend is there. the salary, result, trophies will be always there. You rarely see any outlier.

If you see the next best player/coach being from unknown team, let me know. i doubt it ever happens, because one of those big clubs has already spotted him and bought him with a "GOOD PRICE".

Have an eye on Ramsy in Arsenal, he is already 18, had 3 years experience in Arsenal first team and broken leg for once. That's the trend I am talking about.

Cheers,

[Doctor DOOM]

^We are getting some where asal.

So, Real is among top 4 then. And there are some amazing players in their squad.

Do you agree there is a possibility that the forth team in the world can beat the top team in the world in any day of the year?

If yes, there is no need for name calling, we gotta respect the strong opponent.

Coming back to Mourinho:

Is he a coach?

Do you know any other coach with so much achievement?

Come on man, he must have some thing winning trophies year-in year-out. I agree that he is not among the loveliest coaches in the world, still he is F%$king good.

Cheers,

delbar, your answer is right above this very post.

here (again):

secondly, given the amount of money poured into it and the players they have hired, if real was NOT among the top 4 teams, then we could have raised an eyebrow. then all that busload of superstars shd go sell potatos in the vegetable market.
you put kaka, ronaldo, castillas, ozil, khedira, alonso, ramos, higuain, de'maria, benzema, pepe, ... in condom-sazi qom and even this club WOULD be among the top 4

you see, quality comes to the fore when you dont have 20 superstars and you still succeed.




and finally, I agree. Real, in the frist leg did play better than barca as was already expressed. which makes them (under moan-rinho's suggestion) resorting to violent, rash tackles and dirty gamesmanship EVEN MORE unnecessary.

[Hajagha]

khatm jalaseh.

[Doctor DOOM]

I'm watching the replay at the moment and going through what we spoke about in this thread, I feel this is needed to be said in favor of the good natured game of football.

1- Man for man and position for position, if we keep the trio of iniesta, messi and xavi out, Madrid has the better quality of players.
2- Madrid certainly has more established, reputed stars of the world of football
3- They have a deeper roster and far far stronger bench
4- They have the height advantage which gives them great advantage in many tactics, be it on set pieces, or defending or the late game hail-marys .
5- They are better physically and just as good in pace
6- They have the advantage in the capability of direct plays and offense
7- and as was discussed in the other thread (in F+), barca is quite vulnerable to a whole list of tactics and strategies whereas madrid is not as vulnerable



Almost in all categories - except one – Madrid comes off the better of the two. And yet, they are losing more often than not. And sometimes, quite horribly. And that is becoz of that single factor that barca has the advantage over Madrid. And that is team-work and intelligent combinations.
Yes. Madrid, despite having the advantage in way too many categories, still succumbs to barca’s intelligent teamwork.


but I digress. the reason I enumerated some of madrid's advantages over barca is to show this team, if led properly, can play better and even win some games WITHOUT RESORTING TO THIS KIND OF ROUGH AND RASH BEHAVIOR.
there is absolutely no need to try to break the opponents' legs when you already have this many advantages.


but, in all the ties between the two teams since moan-rinho took over, madrid produced only ONE game with better quality than barca. in the other 7 ties, on the whole, it was the weaker, smaller, more vulnerable team that produced the better quality of football.
food for thought

[Babak agha]

^ now that's an unbiased observation. Welcome back DD

[Doctor DOOM]

^ now that's an unbiased observation.

really?

if you read between the lines you'd notice I've hacked viciously at madrid
basically exposing their stupidity, horrendous leadership, low intellect, failures and their baser nature & loser attitude

[Babak agha]

^ like I said: unbiased

[Hajagha]

I'm watching the replay at the moment and going through what we spoke about in this thread, I feel this is needed to be said in favor of the good natured game of football.

1- Man for man and position for position, if we keep the trio of iniesta, messi and xavi out, Madrid has the better quality of players.
2- Madrid certainly has more established, reputed stars of the world of football
3- They have a deeper roster and far far stronger bench
4- They have the height advantage which gives them great advantage in many tactics, be it on set pieces, or defending or the late game hail-marys .
5- They are better physically and just as good in pace
6- They have the advantage in the capability of direct plays

You gotta steam that "gol-gav-zaboon" and drink it more often. It's quite good to calm people down you know.

Cheers,