The next generation of forwards

[Hajagha]

[Darvish11]

Arsenal is not one of the best teams in the world, but I agree with what you are saying.

[Hajagha]

Arsenal is not one of the best teams in the world.

I respect your opinion, however I think Arsenal and Barca play exactly the same style and are the best teams of the world. When these two teams are on form, you never know when they turn off their scoring machine.

BTW, they both have the best players of the world, Henry and Ronaldinho. If you ask me, I slightly like Henry better.

Cheers

[zzgloo]

Hajagha jan,
What you are stateing sounds interesting,and it may defenetly be doable on some particular games...yet...I by no means am any expert,and do not claim to know much about hypermodern strategies..but a question comes to my mind,and I hope is not too stupid,and hope you could answer....
...on 4-1-5...will it not assign too much responsibilities on mid-fiels ? and will it not open too much space for the opponants defense to move around and support thier own mid-field ? and will it not exhuast players and make them run out of breath ?

[Hajagha]

ZZgloo jan,

To answer your question, I may say that I can even change the numbers to 4-6. So, if you think this way you will see all the other 5 midfielders almost has the same role of that particular defensive midfielder has. The only difference I have seen is this particular defensive midfielder is seen more often in defensive line than the other 5. However, this doesn't mean the other 5 has less duties in defence, thier line of defence is different.

In summary, I don't think he will be an exhausted player comparing to the other 5 attacking midfielder who should cover almost the entire field.

Cheers

[maij]

I respect your opinion, however I think Arsenal and Barca play exactly the same style and are the best teams of the world. When these two teams are on form, you never know when they turn off their scoring machine.

BTW, they both have the best players of the world, Henry and Ronaldinho. If you ask me, I slightly like Henry better.

Cheers

Haji jan...You are sooo right.

I doubt that there is any other team (club) that can play symphonic football the way Barcelona and in particular Arsenal can play. The rest of the clubs are a few miles behind in entertainment value.
To me , Henry is the greatest footballer in the world , follwed closely by Rolandinho. On wednesday , the scene is set for one of the best finals in the modern era.

[Hajagha]

Haji jan...You are sooo right.

I doubt that there is any other team (club) that can play symphonic football the way Barcelona and in particular Arsenal can play. The rest of the clubs are a few miles behind in entertainment value.
To me , Henry is the greatest footballer in the world , follwed closely by Rolandinho. On wednesday , the scene is set for one of the best finals in the modern era.

Thanks, I just quote you in Soheil forum as well (ba ejazeh shoma) ( http://www.iranfootballonline.com/fo...p?t=598&page=2 ), I had a discussion with Viva Italia (Ali) over there.

Back to the discussion, I found both players are exceptinal on the ground with the ball and critical thinking, but Henry is better in the air and defensive duties. That's why I grade him higher. God, both are so enjoyable watching them (sound so gay ).

[yashar_fasihnia]

its true that midfielders are scoring a lot lately, but i still think tall forwards still play an influential role in todays football.

some counter examples hajagha jan, trezeguet and zlatan from juve, drogba and crespo from chelsea, makkay and ballack (although midfielder) from bayern, nistelroy from man utd, and adriano from inter

one possible reason is because long balls and crosses are a major tactic of almost any team. high balls originate from almost anywhere on the field, whether it is the GK taking a GK or starting a counter attack, the defenders kicking under the ball if under pressure, the midfield crossing the ball from the 2 sides or from freekicks and corner kicks or when they are lost and dont know wat to do or dont have much of a choice to play with the ball. Even forwards pass the ball using their heads and cross to each other if they are far apart. all these require a height and jump advantage which usually tall players possess. most of them also have strong physiques and so they require to be stopped either by being fouled on and winning freekicks or penalties or attracting more than 1 defenders towards themselves thereby creating space for their team mates! maybe thats why midfielders are scoring more? now if these forwards are not there to create spaces, will the midfielders still score the same amount of goals? i dunno, i would like to see for myself!
not to forget, more training and emphasize is also being laid on direct freekicks, through passes long range shots than before which again help in scoring, so high balls arent the only solution anymore!

i think its better if we say, todays football doesnt just rely on high balls anymore specially for scoring. this can partly be due to formations where a 3-5-2 formation, ideal for crossing because of the wings and crowded midfields has almost disappeared and a more dynamic and ground passing tactics have taken over in the 4 defenders and 4 midfielders systems. so yes, in todays games, having a tall strong striker isnt the only option, yet it is an important and i would say, a plus point to many teams who would be inferior in terms of speed, skills or passing compared to their opponents.

[Hajagha]

its true that midfielders are scoring a lot lately, but i still think tall forwards still play an influential role in todays football.
some counter examples hajagha jan, trezeguet and zlatan from juve, drogba and crespo from chelsea, makkay and ballack (although midfielder) from bayern, nistelroy from man utd, and adriano from inter
one possible reason is because long balls and crosses are a major tactic of almost any team. high balls originate from almost anywhere on the field, whether it is the GK taking a GK or starting a counter attack, the defenders kicking under the ball if under pressure, the midfield crossing the ball from the 2 sides or from freekicks and corner kicks or when they are lost and dont know wat to do or dont have much of a choice to play with the ball. Even forwards pass the ball using their heads and cross to each other if they are far apart. all these require a height and jump advantage which usually tall players possess. most of them also have strong physiques and so they require to be stopped either by being fouled on and winning freekicks or penalties or attracting more than 1 defenders towards themselves thereby creating space for their team mates! maybe thats why midfielders are scoring more? now if these forwards are not there to create spaces, will the midfielders still score the same amount of goals? i dunno, i would like to see for myself!
not to forget, more training and emphasize is also being laid on direct freekicks, through passes long range shots than before which again help in scoring, so high balls arent the only solution anymore!
i think its better if we say, todays football doesnt just rely on high balls anymore specially for scoring. this can partly be due to formations where a 3-5-2 formation, ideal for crossing because of the wings and crowded midfields has almost disappeared and a more dynamic and ground passing tactics have taken over in the 4 defenders and 4 midfielders systems. so yes, in todays games, having a tall strong striker isnt the only option, yet it is an important and i would say, a plus point to many teams who would be inferior in terms of speed, skills or passing compared to their opponents.

Well look at the new stars, they are all from midfield who score or forwards who is play maker. Those names you mentioned are either in the above category or not a big star.

I don't agree with the long ball being the future of football, look at the way Barca and Arsenal plays, even M"United try to side line his center forward and use more Saha nowadays.

Finally, as I said "next generation", so you will see more players like Ballack, Henry, Karimi, Ronaldiniho, Rooney, Et'eo, Ronaldo, rather than Bierhof (sp), Daei, Mazloomi, Enayati...

Cheers

[The-Red]

good observations.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Well look at the new stars, they are all from midfield who score or forwards who is play maker. Those names you mentioned are either in the above category or not a big star.

I don't agree with the long ball being the future of football, look at the way Barca and Arsenal plays, even M"United try to side line his center forward and use more Saha nowadays.

Finally, as I said "next generation", so you will see more players like Ballack, Henry, Karimi, Ronaldiniho, Rooney, Et'eo, Ronaldo, rather than Bierhof (sp), Daei, Mazloomi, Enayati...
Cheers

sorry to say but makkay, nistelroy, drogba, crespo, trezeguet, zlatan and adriano are all stars and none of them are playmakers or midfielders.

i never said long ball is the future of football, i said high balls & long balls have and will always exist in football and i gave u the different scenarios where the GK, defenders, midfields and forwards use long and/or high balls.
infact, on the contrary, i said, there are other ways or scoring nowadays as well, like through passeses, direct freekicks and long range shots

about ur "next generation", yes, there seems to be decline of players like daei and bierhoff who didnt rely heavily on speed but rather more on power of the head and the foot. one reason could also be that not many tall and strong forwards are entering the next generation except for maybe zlatan, and peter crouch(not even strong), there arent any young but tall strikers as such.

and one could argue its the other way around as well. because there are no tall and powerful strikers entering the next generation, coaches are relying mostly on ground play now. in the sense that, teams who do have tall and strong forwards still do use them and base many of their plans on them. but teams who dont, well they have other type of strikers or even midfielders who have scoring abilities and so they come up with different plans to score.

but im guessing both these factors affect each other at the same time, in the sense, because there are no tall forwards, coaches ask players to play ground games more and because coaches are using mostly ground passings, many tall strikers dont shine or rather play in a different position like midfield.

[Martin-Reza]

True Haji jan, there indeed is much rotation between OM and FW, so that the player types are more similar. Overall I think allround players are getting more and more important.

Eg. Magath prefers a totally flexible midfield in which all four players can fill any of the four diamond positions and they can constantly switch (that's why he also like Karimi).