Bahrain - Iran (11/11/11) - WCQ

[Kaiser Amir]

maij Jan,

I agree that we disagree on Khalatbari
As I've said before, in the current Team Melli, he is my favorite player.

I do accept though that he has some flaws, as you mentioned.
However, he is VERY VERY TALENTED.
I'm pretty positive that had Khalatbari been born in Europe, or had he received proper coaching during his youth, he would have turned into a world class player.

I will mention the route back home in a separate thread tomorrow , I hope.

Can't wait to read about it

Our defense is as shaky and unreliable as always

Keano Jan,

Good thing you mentioned this here and not on the public forum or you would have been slaughtered

On a serious note, I said the same thing after our 6-0 win against Bahrain in Tehran and I say it again:

The current Team Melli defence will crumble like a cheese cake against Japan, South Korea or Australia.

So far, under Queiroz, due to the poor quality of our opponents, our defence hasn't been TRULY TESTED.
And yet, it has still managed to show how fragile it is.

I hope Queiroz can improve that aspect in the coming months.

Rezaei and Khalatbari IMHO should not start our next match.

both Rezaei and Khalatbari have had dismal display at best for these past few TM matches!

Again, I said the same thing about Rezaei after his performance today and here is a reply I received:

"Rezaei = useless" ..... you obviously don't understand the game as much as you think you do.

So, Keano Jan,

I think its time me and you both accept that we don't understand the game and start following basketball

[Keano]

LOL Amir jaan, I prefer Hockey, Basketball is not really exciting for me!

[Keano]

BTW Maij jaan,

Could this be the reason you changed your mind and went back home to watch the match from TV:

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/s...ifier-77111935

[zzgloo]

Bottom Line : it is all good !!
...
But just for the sake of analysis......
.
When ever, one can not make sence of a game, ( specialy on its first half ),and it appears players go around each other without any particular aim.......it means two things.....one is that the teams game plans do not corespond to each other's...that is to say,the assumptions were wrong by both coaches......and the other,is they want to test each other first and open thier hands only on secound half.
Perhaps CQ's assumption was that Bahrain had no choice but to attack from the begginings......which was not the case....as they started very slow...
....
TM under CQ while ineffective,yet they appeared better organized than the Bahrainies..even on the first half in which they recieved a goal....that was not a normal goal and defenetly not a fault of coaching.......series of usuall mistake by Khalatbari to give the kick..then lack of rebounding presence by defenders......plus, giving credit to Bahrainies...as it was well placed and powerful shot...hard on any keeper.
...
CQ 's TM is too good to lose to Bahrain,even in thier home......and they did n't......nor was TM particularly lucky.............
...

[Babak agha]

Although Khalatbary's action was very wrong indeed, I wonder why nobody has mentioned Neku's fault which resulted in the free kick itself.

Giving away free kicks around the box is something Neku is making a habbit of, both in TM and in Osasuna. You wouldn't expect this from someone with his experience, but he does it time and again.

It's interesting that DD called Neku's performance a good one. I guess we watched a different game

Yesterday Neku showed a poor performance, like many games before.

While there was no pressure from the Bahrainies he seldom joined the attack.

His shots were poor (except for 1, whic btw the keeper would save it anayways if it wouldn't have gone out).

His silly freekick/pass to Ando with his back to the opponent's goal.

He almost didn't have any forward/through passes. And the passes he did give (whether they conected or not) where all too soft, not acurate, and "bouncy". Even when he gave a side/backs pass to someone close to him, it never was a normal hard pass over the ground, but he "lobbed"the ball or his pass was too soft and would bounce 2-3 times over 5 meters.

Unfortunantly Neku seems to becoming a secon Daei in TM.........(MR count to 10 before replying :P )

[Doctor DOOM]

payman jan,i think both teams players look at the ball while the shot is being taken.the forwards look to head the ball if needed, the defense the same.

if they see the ball doesnt reach them but is going straight to the goal instead, they both should turn and go towards the goal to clear it.
its not like the forwards have their back to the ball and just run towards the goal aimlessly, they look where the ball is going and move accordingly. the defense does the same.

it's been forever told and repeated that the defenders ought to be closer to the goal than the attackers. they have to put their body in the way and not allow the attacker to pass them. and a lot of other instructions that all compiled lead to a general sense that the defense pushes or moves away from the goal (even if they move laterally towards the ball, they still are the closer players to the goal than the attackers) and the attackers are to be kept on the outside. so even if the two move across the field towards the ball, hypothetically assuming they both aim for the same ball, the ball would fall in between the two with the defender pushing AWAY from the goal and the attacker pushing TOWARDS it.
and the rest is in my previous post about the advantage of the strikers and the defenders' need to pivot and change trajectory, ... etc etc


to majid: bro, I hope you reached home safely and didnt encounter any trouble.
awaiting your post on the matter though.
also: CQ has shown to be a bit cautious (today, we know that 6-0 game in tehran was more of a one-off. with the help of the early red card and the psychological blow to bahrain that got worse with the early goal). I agree. But branko's gutless behavior post AC2004 is on a different level altogether and it will take some doing and mouse-like behavior for CQ to reach such heights.

speaking of mice, ghotbi, however, did reach (or even surpassed him) branko's levels at the asia cup quarterfinal game

[Paradigm]

So is it fair to say that Khalatbari has been on the decline since he moved away from Zob Ahan?
We've seen this happen to many top IPL exports who went to play in the UAE or Qatari leagues.

[Kaiser Amir]

So is it fair to say that Khalatbari has been on the decline since he moved away from Zob Ahan?
We've seen this happen to many top IPL exports who went to play in the UAE or Qatari leagues.

I wouldn't say he's been on a decline.
His backheel against Bahrain was just a moment of stupidity.
Something you learn to avoid at youth stage which, unfortunatly, Khalatbari seems not to have learned, possibly because of our poor youth system in Iran.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I agree.
sadly, it appears in Iran the trainers think if a player is a creative one, they shd allow him to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants! give him card-blanche in everything. That's why you see very little structure and discipline among this kind of players. karimi was a prime example (until he was straightened out in germany), shojaei another one. and yes, khalatbari too.

[maij]

I was supposed to comment on my trip to the stadium. Sorry for not doing it earlier as I was bogged down by many things and did not have much spare time , but better late than never.

Perhaps by now , all of you have some idea about the events in Bahrain. Although the news from here are not making the front page headlines , the political problems and security situation is far from stable. On daily basis , every night like clockwork , we hear sound of explosions , weapon firing , tear gas and sirens. Two nights ago , we could hear these sounds at 3 in the morning. Anyway , the point is that this country is on turmoil and security is of a concern for the majority of us.

Going to a football match in such a situation is a risk by all means , but I finally decided to take such a risk. I thought, it would not be worse than going to an English League games in the late early to mid eighties where I witnessed some horrific scenes in London and Southampton. People actually lost their lives in acts of hooliganism. The only thing that I did not consider was that , I was way younger and more dynamic and energetic then

I live about 12 KM from National Stadium and the access is quite straight forward using a motorway.so , it s no more than 10 minutes drive for me but the parking is another matter. I actually was quite concerned with my car in case of any trouble , the last thing I wanted was that my relatively new S Class Mercedes being damaged and although my car is fully covered (Comprehensive coverage) the insurers in Bahrain have refused to repair cars that were damned during protests claiming that they were acts of civil unrest which is not covered by any insurance policy !!!!

So , I parked at a safe distance and the walk to the stadium was longer than actual drive from home.

I , and many fans like me , had to cross this road to get to the stadium , and that in itself was another adventure. The cars seemed to be driving 120 km/hr on that road and the traffic would not stop. I didn't take note of the time , but it was quite long before I and hundreds other like me could cross the road. Great organization , I thought to myself!

At last I reached the actual stadium premises and they seemed to have much better parking facilities since the last time I was there. The path to the gate had a paved road which was inaccessible to the public cars, however , I noticed a single van parked on the side with some people around it. Approaching it i saw some guys in there distributing pictures of the Prime Minister , NOT the king of Bahrain , but the Prime Minister! Now, I don't want to go into descriptive details on the significant of this , suffice to say that it was an indication the government-backed goons are present and in full force. To confirm that , shortly after that while still outside walking towards the gate , I could head shouts of support for the PM from the stands inside...Hmmmmmm. Never mind , I shall carry on.

Reaching the gate for the stands on the left of the grandstand , I was surprised to see it closed. This is like 45 minutes before kick off! There were some 300 or 400 people waiting behind the closed door and everyone is asking what is going on! The entrance was supposed to be free for that match. I waited for 10-15 minutes with more fans arriving while none of the organizers would bother to say why they have closed the gate. The stands were clearly NOT full , so it was not as if it was a capacity problem. Eventually a policeman inside took pity towards the fans and told them to try the other stand ( right of the grandstand) as this gate here will not be re-opened !

OK, the other stand was like another 10 minutes walk in what was a rough ride walking through mud and rocks. We passed the large stand opposite the main stand (2nd class) it was closed with loads of security people inside the fence guarding it as if it was a Military Base! Some fans dared to ask the people inside why they do not open the gate as so many people are flocking to the stadium and facing locked gates? there was no response or comment.

Anyway , we ( hundreds or maybe thousands like me) carried on and reached the other gate (right of the grandstand) and the scene there was absolute chaos. I would not even want to guess how many people were waiting to enter this gate. I was patient for a change, as I observed from outside the fence , how many fans actually pass through the turnstile then through a metal detector. It was like 4 or 5 fans a minute. It was decision time for me and seeing thousands waiting to enter and all those shouts of political slogans coming out of the stands I said ...That is it. I am out of here . This place is too volatile and anything can happen. It was certainly not worth the risk.

As i was walking away on the other side of the stadium , I had a look inside and could see a huge Iran flag covering a large area on the seats.

I managed to reach home in time to see the kick-off.


As I expected , there were problems outside the stadium at the end of the match , but since the majority shia fans are boycotting Bahrain matches , it was a blessing in disguise as I have no doubt that there would have been bloodshed.

[maij]

Amir Jan.

The question for me is not whether I like or dislike Karimi , Nekounam , or Khalatbary. After all they are all players that we support and our assets. BUT , we must distinguish between the players who deliver the goods and those who are there for decorations and showtime. I am afraid , regardless to the popularity of Khalatbary , he is in the latter category for me.

Babak Agha
I don't know why are you surprised about Nekounam and no one commented on him. We had a long discussion on Nekounam's series of below par performances since the Asian Cup and I believe you also commented on the subject. Yes , Nekounam is no where near what i expect him to be and this match against Bahrain confirmed my fears and suspicions that this player is on the decline. With all the best intentions in the world , I cannot see anything positive about his contribution for Team Melli nowadays.
The reality is that Iran is not Spain or England with so much choice of good players to pick, so Nekounam is and will be starting for many more matches. We only have one choice...Salvat and Doaa that Nekounam performs to his ability comes match day.


Doc.
Did I read right what you said that "CQ is a bit cautious?"....No..no..No..Bro , I am detecting that you are softening and mellowing. Aint like the real Doc we know.

Seriously though. When CQ selected Madagascar and Palestine as opponents , I should have guessed there and then that the guy is no maverick. And finally when I saw how his team played in the first half against Bahrain , it left very little doubt in my mind about his sense of adventure or lack of it to be precise..

[Babak agha]

^ Maji Jan thanks for sharing your experience at the gate......Let's see how it all turns out. I blame it all on the English and their blue ****ed eyes ;p

What I meant with nobody commenting on Neku was not his poor performance (as usual recently), although Peyman khan was of the opinion that he was good in that game, but his role in the goal we conceded.

Everyone is blaming khalatbari (and rightly so. It's not due to the poor basic/youth trainings in Iran. It's due to stupidity. If we as mere spectators know that you shouldn't pass like that near your own box, then TM player without any youth trainings should know that too).

But what I was surprised about is the fact that no one comments about the (stupid) freekicks Neku gives away near the box on regular basis. His poor performance aside, he's a liability during each counterattack by the opposition.

[Kaiser Amir]

Thanks for the detailed match day report, maij Jan.
I always enjoy reading such posts which give us, the fans who weren't there, a sense of how the atmosphere was.

Amir Jan.

The question for me is not whether I like or dislike Karimi , Nekounam , or Khalatbary. After all they are all players that we support and our assets. BUT , we must distinguish between the players who deliver the goods and those who are there for decorations and showtime. I am afraid , regardless to the popularity of Khalatbary , he is in the latter category for me.

In theory, I agree with the bolded part.
Its just that I love Khalatbari too much and can't apply the theory you mentioned in his case

I have a feeling Khalatbari will put his mark on this World Cup qualification campaign before its over and when he does I expect you to call him by his full name: Diego Armando Khalatbari


Finally, about Nekounam:

I think you and Babak agha are a bit harsh on him.
After all, in my opinion, our equalizer in Manama came partly because of Nekounam's inspired play.

If you look at the replay of the equalizing goal, the ball almost went out for a throw-in to Iran.
Had this happened, Bahrain's defence would have re-grouped, not to mention they had a player on the sidelines ready for a change. All this would have killed Iran's momentum and, most probably, we would have lost.

Nekounam made an energetic sprint, stopped the ball from going out and sent a nice dipping cross into the box and the rest is history

[zzgloo]

Majid e Aziz......thanks for the report....pitty you could n't get in,but I do not blaim you...I might not have even gone as far as you did....
Some questions ....
How do you look like ?....what I mean is, to the eyes of the typical Bahrainies, do you look like Iranians ?....can they tell you are of Iranian back ground by looking at you and the way you dress ?
Through different venues...I have noticed a " Hate toward Iranians " by Bahrainies....is it equaly shared sentiment among Shias and Sonies?...and why is the hate for ?
....
Regarding CQ.....I do not consider him as Conservative, and I believe he may be the most attack minded coach ( based on his past work outside Iran ) than we have ever had.....how ever,he is not stupid and wants get eliminated before he gets to do what he wants done, and earn the trust of fans " Initialy ", untill he himself gets to trust his Iranian players....which he considered as " lacking tactical understanding compare to European players ( on FIFA interview ) ".........there needs to be certain level of trust in players and thier proffesionaleties..as well as players' exact following of his plans......that may never come with our spoiled unproffesional players..but if it ever comes,it takes longer than the little time he has been with TM.

[maij]

Majid e Aziz......thanks for the report....pitty you could n't get in,but I do not blaim you...I might not have even gone as far as you did....
Some questions ....
How do you look like ?

In my good days , I look like Kevin Costner and bad days , like Anthony Quinn

....what I mean is, to the eyes of the typical Bahrainies, do you look like Iranians ?....can they tell you are of Iranian back ground by looking at you and the way you dress ?

First of all , there is no such thing as typical Bahraini. In this small island there is quite a few number or races and cultures , even the Arabic dilect is spoken differently according to different races. I and my family look very much Persian and stick like a sore thumb here. ( although outside of Bahrain , i I have been mistken for pakistani's as well )

Through different venues...I have noticed a " Hate toward Iranians " by Bahrainies....is it equaly shared sentiment among Shias and Sonies?...and why is the hate for ?

Again that is a very wrong assumption and I am afraid many Iranians and Persians have this wrong streotyped mentality about Bahrain. The fact is , it the very opposite. I am surprised how can people judge another country's citizens affection and political leaning based on the act of a minioritry in a football stadium !!!!! Football stadiums have never been representative of people's culture. If you attended Football matches in England in the eighties , you would have thought that the British are abunch of criminals living in anarchy and thriving in violance....In REAL Life , England and the British were and are in no way near what football holigoons made them look.


The love or hate towards Iran very much depends on whom and which race you are talking to. The absloute majority of Bahraini's DO NOT hate Iran and the Shia , specially those religious factions , have a very strong tie with the religious heiarchy in Iran.

Regarding CQ.....I do not consider him as Conservative, and I believe he may be the most attack minded coach ( based on his past work outside Iran ) than we have ever had.....how ever,he is not stupid and wants get eliminated before he gets to do what he wants done, and earn the trust of fans " Initialy ", untill he himself gets to trust his Iranian players....which he considered as " lacking tactical understanding compare to European players ( on FIFA interview ) ".........there needs to be certain level of trust in players and thier proffesionaleties..as well as players' exact following of his plans......that may never come with our spoiled unproffesional players..but if it ever comes,it takes longer than the little time he has been with TM.

You think he may be the most attack minded coach that we ever had and I think he is conservative! Well.....Our ideas are so far apart that it is certainly not much use debating the issue.

One thing that i find confilcting in your statement is that you say thay CQ is the most attack minded coach , but at the end you mention about the little time he has been with us . Surely then , that little time he had as you said , is not enough to judge a coach so strongly by labeling him as the most attacking coach. Or , maybe I am missing somethinhg here!