Goalkeeping problem on the horizon?

[zzgloo]

Martin Jaan....
I read your posts....and I agree ,e should have been greatful ,and we were,for the time he played well......
but your reasonings..( and I think I understood it well ),does not count for two issues :
.
1- There is a patern in blunders of Rahmati..those other Goal keepers do not have patern of mistakes.
2- Players can not just live off of the past..and need to continue perfoming....to the standard of what they are paid,and thier fame.

[maij]

We had another case during the Branko Era....a good keeper with bad decisions

Was he called "Ebrahim Mirzapour" ...who could not kick a ball even if his life depended on it ?

Bless him...he was the most criticized player in most of the TM matches although he was not that bad , not great either, mind you.

[Martin-Reza]

I don't think you understood the jest of what I said. Both you and me and the rest of the world KNOW that football is not my profession , so what is the point of mentioning the obvious , I wonder?
I said in the professional world ( and football is a profession) if you accept low standard , then you you are liable to lose your job. In my profession , accepting low quality or inferior performance could mean loss of life and catastrophe.

BTW: Where did I mention Queiroz in that argument ???

You said such a mentality would be a catastrophe in your professional field and I pointed out it's not your professional field in order to express that this mentality could have very different consequences (namely positive ones) if applied by you here. No need in trying hard to get that comment wrong .

You tend to stay put on the idea that because that individual (Rahmati) was good and I do not deny that he was good , then he should be good and be allowed to commit errors , because in your mindset , anyone is liable to make a mistake and hence the alternative player will make mistakes as well. Better the devil I know

Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough. I will sum it up. I've seen two blunders by Rahmati in the past years, both of them to SS' disadvantage recently. I claim two blunders are no justification to say a goalkeeper is not good enough for the Iranian national team.

There are other ways of arguing Rahmati wouldn't be worth a number one spot, such as claiming he wouldn't deny as many big chances as before, but I completely reject that, however, we discussed that before and I don't see much sense in restarting this argument.

Finally, as usual, we talk about good or bad whereas it is about how good someone is compared to available alternatives. Looking at the other options, I'd need at least another 2 blunders in near future to seriously consider one of the other candidates. I am personally wondering who in your eyes would do better in the aspects you critisize Rahmati for, and all other aspects of goalkeeping? Who is that 100%er denying, mistakeless keeper who is secure on crosses too? Gordan? Seen more blunders from him than of Rahmati for sure. Forouzan? Have seen three clips of Tractor games and two blunders. Haghighi? Third goalie in Russia with no mathc praxis and blunders en masse in the past. List goes on...

[Martin-Reza]

Martin Jaan....
I read your posts....and I agree ,e should have been greatful ,and we were,for the time he played well......
but your reasonings..( and I think I understood it well ),does not count for two issues :
.
1- There is a patern in blunders of Rahmati..those other Goal keepers do not have patern of mistakes.
2- Players can not just live off of the past..and need to continue perfoming....to the standard of what they are paid,and thier fame.

Let me explain two things about my perspective in that regard.

I am not saying Rahmati should be kept despite being bad due to some glorious past. He still is the most secure goalkeeper we have in Iran.

I very honestly only saw two blunders from Rahmati, which doesn't really allow talking of any kind of pattern. One was punching a cross away to the center under difficult weather conditions and conceding a goal from the following shot, the second being a run out of the box and deserting his goal in ACL when a player beat the offside but came over the wing, which simply was taking too much risk. So for me the two blunders aren't even similar.

[maij]

You said such a mentality would be a catastrophe in your professional field and I pointed out it's not your professional field in order to express that this mentality could have very different consequences (namely positive ones) if applied by you here. No need in trying hard to get that comment wrong .

Sorry , don't be offended , but i do not quite understand what you are saying or implying , so let us leave this professionalism thing aside.

Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough. I will sum it up. I've seen two blunders by Rahmati in the past years, both of them to SS' disadvantage recently. I claim two blunders are no justification to say a goalkeeper is not good enough for the Iranian national team..

Well..well. So , you are judging by two blunders , while I am judging by a lot more than two blunders and many more matches of Esteghlal . I rest my case.

There are other ways of arguing Rahmati wouldn't be worth a number one spot, such as claiming he wouldn't deny as many big chances as before, but I completely reject that, however, we discussed that before and I don't see much sense in restarting this argument.

Finally, as usual, we talk about good or bad whereas it is about how good someone is compared to available alternatives. Looking at the other options, I'd need at least another 2 blunders in near future to seriously consider one of the other candidates. I am personally wondering who in your eyes would do better in the aspects you critisize Rahmati for, and all other aspects of goalkeeping? Who is that 100%er denying, mistakeless keeper who is secure on crosses too? Gordan? Seen more blunders from him than of Rahmati for sure. Forouzan? Have seen three clips of Tractor games and two blunders. Haghighi? Third goalie in Russia with no mathc praxis and blunders en masse in the past. List goes on...

Let me put it in simple terms.
I am neither qualified nor informed enough to pass a comment like who should I consider for an alternative to Rahmati.

You said it yourself that I am NOT a professional in football !

All I know and I am certain of is this Rahmati is shaky shaky. He might be suffering from confidence crises as a result of various internal club problems and the psychological war he claims is being waged against him. All these are beside the point, I can't pass a comment on hearsay, but I can definitely comment on what I see and observe in football matches , which is poor performance from Rahmati in many games for Esteghlal.

Just to put the records straight , I am not denying the fact that he was , and probably is , an average to good keeper , but he is not really any good right NOW.

On a side note , I have just seen the selection for the next Team Melli game, and I am sure glad that Rahmati is not in the squad and finally someone else will get a chance.

[zzgloo]

Martin Jaan....

your point :
a keeper like any player is allowed to make some mistakes..and he has already done great,and " deserves the benefit of the doubt "....
.
My point is :
He has done more than one or two blunders,and aside from his several untimely coming out the box,he is well known to be Liability on all rebounded balls...so much so,the opponanats may be wroking on that weakness,and our defense is trained for that as well to cover it up.....more over.......
why did we not give such " Benefit of the doubt " to " Mirza zadeh " ( or was it Mirzapour ! ,during Branko time).......was he not as good or even better than Rahmati,other than his " Blunder paterns " ??
.
We owe it to Mirza zadeh, and our football to be as critical to Rahmati !!............do n't we ?

[maij]

بهروز سلطاني: علت افت رحمتي نداشتن رقيب اس&#15

Behrouz Soltani commenting on the form of Rahmati

دروازه بان خوب زياد داريم، اما مديريت صحيح نيست بهروز سلطاني: علت افت رحمتي نداشتن رقيب است



کد خبر: 91012005071

یکشنبه ۲۰ فروردین ۱۳۹۱ - ۱۱:۳۸


بهروز سلطاني مي گويد افت دروازه*باني در فوتبال ايران مشكلي نيست كه يك شبه حل شود و متاسفانه فدراسيون فوتبال هم تلاشي براي بهبود آن نمي*كند.
دروازه*بان سابق تيم ملي فوتبال ايران در گفت*وگو با خبرنگار ورزشي خبرگزاري دانشجويان ايران (ايسنا)، درباره افت دروازه*بان*ها و پيامدهاي آن در فوتبال كشور، گفت: متاسفانه دروازه*باني تنها يكي از مشكلات اين ورزش است. فدراسيون فوتبال كه كلا در خواب زمستاني است. ما بارها خواستيم در فدراسيون آكادمي دروازه*باني ايجاد كنيم، اما هيچ كس به حرف ما توجه نكرد.
وي ادامه داد: ما در ايران دروازه*بان*هاي بسيار خوبي داريم، اما مديريتمان درست نيست و نمي توانيم آن*ها را به سطح مطلوب برسانيم. اگر مي خواهيم از خارج دروازه*بان بياوريم، بهتر است آنهايي را بياوريم كه براي دروازه*بان*هاي داخلي مفيد باشند و به آن*ها تجربه بدهند.

سلطاني با انتقاد از عدم توجه به پيشرفت دروازه*بان*ها در فدراسيون فوتبال گفت: متاسفانه كفاشيان اصلا توجهي به اين موضوع ندارد. ما چندين بار گفته ايم كه او فوتبالي نيست. نمي دانم چطور پس از به جا گذاشتن يك كارنامه سياه دوباره رييس فدراسيون شد. زماني كه حجازي زنده بود، من به همراه و او عابدزاده به فدراسيون اصرار كرديم كه يك آكادمي مخصوص دروازه*بان*ها ايجاد كند، اما كفاشيان در اين راه حمايت لازم را از ما انجام نداد.
دروازه*بان پيشين تيم فوتبال پرسپوليس درباره وضعيت دروازه*بان*هاي نخست تيم ملي فوتبال گفت: اگر رحمتي امروز گل*هايي مي خورد كه هيچ دروازه*باني از ليگ دو هم اين گل*ها را نمي*خورند، دليلش اين است كه او چند سال است بدون رقيب در تيم ملي دروازه*بان اول است و قراردادهاي باشگاهي*اش هم ميلياردي است. زماني كه من دروازه*بان تيم ملي بودم، براي هر اردو زير 15 دروازه*بان به تيم ملي دعوت نمي*شد، اما الان تنها سه يا چهار نفر دعوت مي*شوند.
وي افزود: چرا دروازه*باني ما بايد اينقدر بد باشد كه يك دروازه*بان ليگ يكي يك شبه به پرسپوليس بيايد و يك شبه هم محو شود. اين يعني يك جاي كار ما ايراد دارد. اصلا شما چه انتظاري از اين ورزش داريد؟ وقتي كه تعداد افراد غير ورزشي آنقدر زياد است كه اصلا ورزشي*ها نمي*توانند در خانه خودشان كاري انجام دهند؟ يا وقتي كه من و امثال رسول كربكندي را به جايگاه ويژه ورزشگاه آزادي راه نمي*دهند و يا وقتي هم ما به همراه 30 ـ 40 بازيكن قديمي فوتبال روي اين سكو نشسته*ايم، تلويزيون تنها چهره دو نفر را كه هميشه آن*ها را نشان مي*دهد، پخش مي*كند. حالا شما از اين ورزش گلر مي*خواهيد؟ اصلا دروازه*بان هيچ. در ساير پست*ها هم فوتبال ما در آينده با مشكل روبرو خواهد شد.
بهروز سلطاني در پايان گفت و گويش با ايسنا، با ارائه دو پيشنهاد براي بهبود دروازه*باني كشور گفت: مشكل ما در دروازه*باني چيزي نيست كه يك شبه حل شود، اما ما بايد با يك برنامه*ريزي اصولي دروازه*بان*هاي جوان را از سراسر كشور در يك آكادمي اختصاصي آموزش دهيم تا بالاخره از جمع آن*ها يك دروازه*بان خوب ساخته شود. همچنين بايد دو دروازه*بان خارجي به ليگ بيايند تا براي دروازه*بان*هاي داخلي الگو شوند و رفته رفته آن*ها به سطح بالايي برسند.

[Hosseini]

Rahtamti himself is a mediocre keeper at best.

He is as amateur as all the rest of our keepers.

LOL, what are you talking about? Rahmati has saved are a*ses so many times its not even funny, now your calling him mediocre. With 68 caps for Iran, I think it's absolutely childish for you to call him an amateur.

The man had stayed Iran's #1 keeper for about four years, I dont think he just became automatically horrible.

Since he came to Esteghlal Rahmati's been in a slump. I believe he needs to get out of SS ASAP, and he knows it (leaving at the end end of the season).

If I'd have to pick, Mohammadi could be a decent alternative , despite his age I always liked his style.

[Doctor DOOM]

I say we try Rahman Ahmadi more often based on many solid performances in the league and asia. His great performance against pp today proves he is in a better form than Rahmati.

Favoring Ahmadi over Rahmati will convey the proper message to rahmati over his complacency and loss of form.
Will CQ do this?

[Martin-Reza]

^ No, Ahmadi wasn't even among the six keepers recently chosen. He's number 7 in best case, considering Queiroz rather called up Rahmati, Haghighi, Forouzan, Sadeghi, Makani and Gordan.

[Doctor DOOM]

No. CQ did not call any player from pp, ss &sepahan for theie ACL games.
Do u watch IPL games at all ... or just accept what is put out from TM press conf's? Coz u shd have noticed ahmadi's performances


But once the real list comes up and if CQ doesnt call ahmadi , then we must question his judgment and eyes. He is clearly doing far better than rahmati. Let alone the other keepers

[maij]

^ No, Ahmadi wasn't even among the six keepers recently chosen. He's number 7 in best case, considering Queiroz rather called up Rahmati, Haghighi, Forouzan, Sadeghi, Makani and Gordan.

How did you come up with such conclusion that Ahmadi is no 7 in the picking order?
Is there any scientific or statistical or logical analysis in such assumption ?



Anyway , let me give you the table of the best defense in the Persian Gulf League so far. Notice that Rahmati and friends are number 8 behind teams such as Malavan and Shahin , while surprise Surprise, Ahamdi and friends are right there at top.

#	Team	MP	W	D	L	F	A	D	P
1	Sepahan	30	17	8	5	50	26	24	59
2	Malavan	29	8	10	11	29	28	1	34
3	Foolad	29	10	9	10	33	29	4	39
4	Zob Ahan	29	9	14	6	28	30	-2	41
5	Tractor Sazi	29	15	8	6	48	31	17	53
6	Saipa	29	9	10	10	41	31	10	37
7	Shahin Bushehr	29	6	13	10	24	31	-7	31
8	Esteghlal	29	16	7	6	49	32	17	55
9	Naft Tehran	29	12	8	9	34	33	1	44

[Hosseini]

This really doesn't sum up anything really. If you choose to analyze "goals against", the difference between Naft and Sepahan is just 6 goals, also defense just may as well be weaker or stronger.

How did you come up with such conclusion that Ahmadi is no 7 in the picking order?
Is there any scientific or statistical or logical analysis in such assumption ?



Anyway , let me give you the table of the best defense in the Persian Gulf League so far. Notice that Rahmati and friends are number 8 behind teams such as Malavan and Shahin , while surprise Surprise, Ahamdi and friends are right there at top.

#	Team	MP	W	D	L	F	A	D	P
1	Sepahan	30	17	8	5	50	26	24	59
2	Malavan	29	8	10	11	29	28	1	34
3	Foolad	29	10	9	10	33	29	4	39
4	Zob Ahan	29	9	14	6	28	30	-2	41
5	Tractor Sazi	29	15	8	6	48	31	17	53
6	Saipa	29	9	10	10	41	31	10	37
7	Shahin Bushehr	29	6	13	10	24	31	-7	31
8	Esteghlal	29	16	7	6	49	32	17	55
9	Naft Tehran	29	12	8	9	34	33	1	44

[maij]

This really doesn't sum up anything really. If you choose to analyze "goals against", the difference between Naft and Sepahan is just 6 goals, also defense just may as well be weaker or stronger.

Well......... I did not claim anything , I just posted statistics and as we all know by now , stats do not lie.

However , since you claim that does not sum anything (!!) , would you care to enlighten me on how you analyze and rank goalkeepers ?

[Hosseini]

Well......... I did not claim anything , I just posted statistics and as we all know by now , stats do not lie.

However , since you claim that does not sum anything (!!) , would you care to enlighten me on how you analyze and rank goalkeepers ?

Just based on the keeper's experience and overall performance. Rahmati has about 70 caps for Iran (Rahman only about 1-2 I think), and for sure his success outweighs Ahmadi. Enormous difference between the two.