Goalkeeping problem on the horizon?

[zzgloo]

i think there is so much pressure on him that he doesnt exit his goal, that now he is trying to do it and things are getting even. 2 poor exits cost us 2 goals.

The pressure is " Kam Janbegi ".....just because every one has accepted him being the best,and getting the best money..has given him a false arrogance ,thinking he can do things others cann't do.....
The most important duty for a keeper is to be true to the foundementals...and that is what he is not doing due to his new found arrogance.

[Martin-Reza]

It's very entertaining to read the populistic comments of some of you.

Just look at German Bundesliga and see what one of the best keepers in the world, Manuel Neuer, is doing. Or one of the brightest goalkeeping talents, Marc-Andre ter Stegen. Worse blunders left and right and decisive ones too.

Your expectations for Iran's national team keeper are unrealistic or even ridiculous.

Rahmati is not just an average keeper, he's a very good keeper, not only for Iranian or Asian standards. If some of you can't be grateful for that, it won't be my problem.

[Doctor DOOM]

Just an advise to all: never tell/show martin someone threw himself into a well.
Be very careful

[maij]

"Rahmati is not just an average keeper, he's a very good keeper, not only for Iranian or Asian standards. If some of you can't be grateful for that, it won't be my problem. !!!!!!!"

If I had this mentality in my professional field , I would have lost my job and career. In the professional world , which football is supposed to be , accepting ridicule and on top of that "BE GRATEFUL" is synonyms to downgrading quality.

When you call a goalkeeper that is continuously prone to mistakes which costs your team very dearly ( and I don't want to repeat all the details ) , and when the majority of people witness his weaknesses match after match and express their concern , and then you come up an tell us that he is the best GK in Asia because Manuel Neuer , Gordon Banks and Lev Yashin have ****ed up as well , it implies resistance to facts by forcing an opinion based on stubbornness.
Why ? is it because of the constant defense and protection of Rahmati regardless to his errors and mistakes? or maybe because of attitude like "... no one is perfect , right ? so , why should we , ignorant people , expect perfection from Rahmati ?"

I don't care if Mehdi Rahmati is the best GK in the universe in your opinion , I still have enough vision , eye sight and knowledge to decide when a GK is playing quite badly. The facts are clear to me 1) Rahmati is a bad goalkeeper at the present and is a great risk. 2) Aghili is on a slide as well , so we have a serious gap in the defense system of Team Melli.

I suspect that both will figure in the future games for Team Melli , but that is a Hail Mary situation and escape from reality.

I just hope that some Cousin of Seyed Mehdi uses his potent Doaa and do a " Shah band" to the Uzbek forwards.

[maij]

The pressure is " Kam Janbegi ".....just because every one has accepted him being the best,and getting the best money..has given him a false arrogance ,thinking he can do things others cann't do.....
The most important duty for a keeper is to be true to the foundementals...and that is what he is not doing due to his new found arrogance.

Very well said , Bahram jan.

5 star post.

[yashar_fasihnia]

The pressure is " Kam Janbegi ".....just because every one has accepted him being the best,and getting the best money..has given him a false arrogance ,thinking he can do things others cann't do.....
The most important duty for a keeper is to be true to the foundementals...and that is what he is not doing due to his new found arrogance.

maybe i didnt state my argument clearly,, wat i mean is everyone keeps picking on him that he should exit on crosses and on through passes, which he is trying to do but is failing even more.

rahmati just needs some peace, i think its more pressure (from esteghlal results, lots of games he has been playing past few years continuously for esteghlal/sepahan/TM while almost eveyr other player in TM has been rested either in his club or country, all those threats he has been receiving, all the talk about him being so money minded) and the fact that he is always expected to be on top level is getting to him.

[maij]

maybe i didnt state my argument clearly,, wat i mean is everyone keeps picking on him that he should exit on crosses and on through passes, which he is trying to do but is failing even more.

rahmati just needs some peace, i think its more pressure (from esteghlal results, lots of games he has been playing past few years continuously for esteghlal/sepahan/TM while almost eveyr other player in TM has been rested either in his club or country, all those threats he has been receiving, all the talk about him being so money minded) and the fact that he is always expected to be on top level is getting to him.

The only comment I have in this argument is that in the real world , the interest of the majority supersedes the interest of the individuals.

In this case , the interest of the Team and the Fans are much more important than the interests of one Mehdi Rahmati. Cruel ? Maybe , but you need to ask yourself. Where would Mehdi Rahmati be if he was not in football and supported by these fans?

BTW: There are ALWAYS some reasons or justifications for performances deterioration by human beings. That said , such deterioration should never be allowed to harm the interest of the masses. Simply put, I would say "Yeah..I understand your problems and appreciate that the pressure is taking its toll, so , dear Mehdi , you need to sit on the bench and take some time off until you recover " Instead of saying " "Yeah..I understand your problems and appreciate that the pressure is taking its toll, so , dear Mehdi , keep playing and praying and hope that we do not concede easy and silly goals and no worries , just take your time to recover."

[zzgloo]

I belive all of us are correct....those of us commenting on Rahmati....
" He is a good goal keeper ".....but such statement is so absolute......does that mean he has been,he is and he will be a good goal keeper ?
The only way,to call a player and brand him as " Good " or " The best "..is if he is proffessional !!....that is to say,he remaines consistant....as professional players always think thier jobs are at jeoparty.....as the game at hand is the most important game of thier lives........The humility and proffessionality keeps thier egos at check !!
If one notices.....Rahmati in his recent games with Esteghlal ,has been too critical of his fellow team mates...and has moved away from the humble persona he used to have...while at the same time takes unneccessary risks....
Rahmati Has the tools,and we may not have any other options......but like most Iranian players,he is showing the lack of perpectives.

[yashar_fasihnia]

The only comment I have in this argument is that in the real world , the interest of the majority supersedes the interest of the individuals.

In this case , the interest of the Team and the Fans are much more important than the interests of one Mehdi Rahmati. Cruel ? Maybe , but you need to ask yourself. Where would Mehdi Rahmati be if he was not in football and supported by these fans?

BTW: There are ALWAYS some reasons or justifications for performances deterioration by human beings. That said , such deterioration should never be allowed to harm the interest of the masses. Simply put, I would say "Yeah..I understand your problems and appreciate that the pressure is taking its toll, so , dear Mehdi , you need to sit on the bench and take some time off until you recover " Instead of saying " "Yeah..I understand your problems and appreciate that the pressure is taking its toll, so , dear Mehdi , keep playing and praying and hope that we do not concede easy and silly goals and no worries , just take your time to recover."

so if tommorow majority say mehdy rahmati should play forward, mehdy rahmati should really play as a forward because majority want him to and think its in their interest? decisions need to be made by the ones responsible and the ones in charge, not the mass/fans even if it may seem against their interest. fans cant decide if rahmati should exit his goal or not on crosses. fans can criticize rahmati's performance, his abilities/disabilities, but its the coachs decisions and during the game, the players instantaneous decision making and judgement of the situation, but not fans/masses and their interests.

to me it seems, rahmati has been trying to reduce his criticism of not coming out of goal at all (hence please the majority) and its back firing. ofcourse, there are a lot of external pressures as well which we discussed below which is also affecting him, but i think he should do his own job and if he is more comfortable staying on his goal line and not making exits, then be that way. this is his limitation as a player which he cant cope with and in trying to do so, its making matters worse for him and his team, then let him do wat he was doing best. some players can adapt to changes and new expectations, some cant and go back to wat they were doing best previously.

as for the interest of the masses being harmed because of rahmati's deterioration or poor form, its not for rahmati to decide whether he should play or not. He is getting paid salary to attend trainings, and play in games when his coaches want him to. Its upto his coaches and if his coaches still prefer a not in form rahmati over say an inform rahman ahmadi in TM or hadi zarinsaed in SS, for example, wat can rahmati do? walk away?

[purple_haze]

I just hope that some Cousin of Seyed Mehdi uses his potent Doaa and do a " Shah band" to the Uzbek forwards.

LOL

Aside from the psychological aspects affecting him, I think one other thing about is situation is the fact that he's always been a keeper that had amazing reflexes, to the degree that it made up for other deficiencies, like his exits and such. As he's getting older, he's gradually loosing speed which naturally impacts his strongest asset. Like all the speedy players, specially winger-types that live on their speed, but when getting older and loosing it slowly turn into ordinary players. The GK position has always been an exception when it comes to age in football, as many good goalies can play at the highest levels well into their 40's, but that usually only applies to all around great goalies. IMO an all around great goalie, aside from the technical aspects that sets them apart, should posses the the following attributes:

1- Physically strong. This helps the keeper to have confidence getting into areal and ground battles and win them. This aspect is specially needed for areal challenges.
2- Mentally strong.
3- Reaction speed.
4- Attitude and presence. This one can often bee seen in great GK's. All the greatest GK's have this special attitude which helps them dominate the box. Sometimes they can be perceived as total A-holes because of this but this is actually something of an asset on the filed (not off the field).

The likes of Schmeichel, Buffon, Chilavert and the rest of big keepers are category 1: the type that have had most of not all of the above factors. Category 2 is the smaller keepers: Casillas, Barthez and Valdes are/were all great international keepers, but they that lack somewhat in aspect one, but make up for it with being superior in the other aspects, specially speed.

Rahmati is a type 2, but almost always lacking too much in aspect one and not that brilliant in aspects 2 and 4 either, but still good enough for Asian standards. His strongest asset has always been aspect 3.
What's happening lately is the deterioration of aspect 3 and 1 due to age and a drop of aspect 2 as well due to side issues.

Aspect 1 and 3 can not be totally stopped because of human anatomy, but can be remedied with more rest. Aspect 2 can also be remedied by creating a harmonized atmosphere for the affected keeper, which is something Fatollahzadeh is not exactly doing in Esteghlal right now. Remember a few years back, a younger, faster Rahmati was mentally very fragile and in almost the same situation, minus being TM's Nr 1. He was heavily criticized in Esteghlal and his performance was taking a nose dive. Back then he made the right decision and moved away from all the side-issues to a smaller club, away from the constant media attention and the way to becoming the country's Nr.1 was paved.
Unfortunately he has never been the type that is mentally strong enough for the task of handling the GK job at one of the Tehran giant clubs. A job that is a challenge in itself when it comes to the red and blue clubs. Something that the likes of Marhoom Hejazi and Abedzadeh could handle.

[zzgloo]

We had another case during the Branko Era....a good keeper with bad decisions

[Doctor DOOM]

so if tommorow majority say mehdy rahmati should play forward, mehdy rahmati should really play as a forward because majority want him to and think its in their interest? decisions need to be made by the ones responsible and the ones in charge, not the mass/fans even if it may seem against their interest. fans cant decide if rahmati should exit his goal or not on crosses. fans can criticize rahmati's performance, his abilities/disabilities, but its the coachs decisions and during the game, the players instantaneous decision making and judgement of the situation, but not fans/masses and their interests.

to me it seems, rahmati has been trying to reduce his criticism of not coming out of goal at all (hence please the majority) and its back firing. ofcourse, there are a lot of external pressures as well which we discussed below which is also affecting him, but i think he should do his own job and if he is more comfortable staying on his goal line and not making exits, then be that way. this is his limitation as a player which he cant cope with and in trying to do so, its making matters worse for him and his team, then let him do wat he was doing best. some players can adapt to changes and new expectations, some cant and go back to wat they were doing best previously.

as for the interest of the masses being harmed because of rahmati's deterioration or poor form, its not for rahmati to decide whether he should play or not. He is getting paid salary to attend trainings, and play in games when his coaches want him to. Its upto his coaches and if his coaches still prefer a not in form rahmati over say an inform rahman ahmadi in TM or hadi zarinsaed in SS, for example, wat can rahmati do? walk away?

1- I doubt we will have such an absurdly IMPOSSIBLE scenario where ppl say let him play forward. so lets stick to probable situations which is ppl saying he has to get his act together and not be complacent as is the trend in the past few months.

2- secondly, I dont think he's thinking this:
"to me it seems, rahmati has been trying to reduce his criticism of not coming out of goal at all (hence please the majority) and its back firing"
because he IS coming out of the goal (nothing wrong with the decision to come out and it IS a part of his duties). What is plaguing him is the timing and manner he does it.
if he decides to not come out, then he's making yet another grave mistake over his present error. that would be the most foolish solution to the problem.
what he SHD do is to improve his timing and technique of coming out. not drop it altogether.
look at aljazeera's first goal where he mis-times his exit and flails his hands at least a couple of feet FARTHER than where the ball descended (where the arab player headed). his hands and arms shd have been at the position of the striker's head, not 2 feet farther. this means he misjudged the flight and descent of the ball as well as mis-timed his exit to reach that spot earlier than the striker.

same thing with the second goal where he shd have reached the ball (APPROACHING HIM. an advantage to him and a disadvantage to the striker who was chasing after the ball) EARLIER.

so this is not about him deciding to come out or not. he SHOULD come out when it is necessary.
the problem is his judgment and timing of when and how he does it



now, we can come and say let him not come out as often as he does.... as his strong points are his quick reflexes and shot taking.
ok. but we shd be aware that our main opponents at TM, skorea are fantastic in their wing play and crossing into opponents' box. so we are pretty much conceding, far more than we shd and what a team normally does, our 18 yards and even our 6 yard box to them. can we live with that?
and it's not only skorea. arabs also do use this kind of attack, especially on their set pieces (not so much in their open plays, compared to the koreans).

[yashar_fasihnia]

1- I doubt we will have such an absurdly IMPOSSIBLE scenario where ppl say let him play forward. so lets stick to probable situations which is ppl saying he has to get his act together and not be complacent as is the trend in the past few months.

2- secondly, I dont think he's thinking this:
"to me it seems, rahmati has been trying to reduce his criticism of not coming out of goal at all (hence please the majority) and its back firing"
because he IS coming out of the goal (nothing wrong with the decision to come out and it IS a part of his duties). What is plaguing him is the timing and manner he does it.
if he decides to not come out, then he's making yet another grave mistake over his present error. that would be the most foolish solution to the problem.
what he SHD do is to improve his timing and technique of coming out. not drop it altogether.
look at aljazeera's first goal where he mis-times his exit and flails his hands at least a couple of feet FARTHER than where the ball descended (where the arab player headed). his hands and arms shd have been at the position of the striker's head, not 2 feet farther. this means he misjudged the flight and descend of the ball as well as mis-timed his exit to reach that spot earlier than the striker.

same thing with the second goal where he shd have reached the ball (APPROACHING HIM. an advantage to him and a disadvantage to the striker who was chasing after the ball) EARLIER.

so this is not about him deciding to come out or not. he SHOULD come out when it is necessary.
the problem is his judgment and timing of when and how he does it



now, we can come and say let him not come out as often as he does.... as his strong points are his quick reflexes and shot taking.
ok. but we shd be aware that our main opponents at TM, skorea are fantastic in their wing play and crossing into opponents' box. so we are pretty much conceding, far more than we shd and what a team normally does, our 18 yards and even our 6 yard box to them. can we live with that?
and it's not only skorea. arabs also do use this kind of attack, especially on their set pieces (not so much in their open plays, compared to the koreans).

1) it was an extreme example to show that rahmati shouldnt follow watever fans want him to do but rather wat his coaches want him to do, and his understanding of the game situation and his own abilities want him to do. just saying getting complacement and get ur acts together isnt a solution, its stating the obvious which even he admitted recently that he hasnt been performing as great as before.

2) rahmati has always been criticized for not coming out of his goal by everybody, even the likes of ferdosipour and mazdak make this comment almost every game rahmati is playing. so it is very much possible that he is trying to reduce that and try to come out, but clearly, he isnt good at it whether he is misjudging the ball's direction/timing, or whether he takes too long to decide, or whether he isnt aware of wat is happening with his defenders against the opponents strikers, or watever the reason is. point is, he has been doing a lot of exits lately (just coincidence? doubt it..) and almost all of them have been costly. if he is more comfortable playing on his goal line and that gets the best out of him, then let him do that and minimize his exits on goal. atleast this way, the number of goals he will concede in such a silly manner will reduce drastically. if he is weak on exiting and judging the crosses, let him stay on goal line and try to save it through reflexes. it shouldnt matter wat fans think he should do, he should do wat his coaches ask him to do and wat he feels is best at that instant of time. nobody said he should stop coming out of goal, i said he should stick to his own style of play (which is mostly staying on his goal and reacting accordingly) and not get influenced by wat many are asking/wanting him to do cos clearly, he is having problems with exiting.

[Martin-Reza]

If I had this mentality in my professional field , I would have lost my job and career. In the professional world , which football is supposed to be , accepting ridicule and on top of that "BE GRATEFUL" is synonyms to downgrading quality.

As far as I know, Iranian football is not your professional field but your hobby. So the comparison doesn't make sense. I didn't say Queiroz should be grateful, I said you fans should be grateful.

When you call a goalkeeper that is continuously prone to mistakes which costs your team very dearly ( and I don't want to repeat all the details ) , and when the majority of people witness his weaknesses match after match and express their concern , and then you come up an tell us that he is the best GK in Asia because Manuel Neuer , Gordon Banks and Lev Yashin have ****ed up as well , it implies resistance to facts by forcing an opinion based on stubbornness.
Why ? is it because of the constant defense and protection of Rahmati regardless to his errors and mistakes? or maybe because of attitude like "... no one is perfect , right ? so , why should we , ignorant people , expect perfection from Rahmati ?"

My point is not that anyone makes mistakes so regardless of how many mistakes of what kind, noone is allowed to critisize. My point is that the standards you and others set are not even set for the best of the world. Two blunders in a season are nothing, and in my opinion Neuer's are even worse than Rahmati's. Yes, I know, some have very creative ways of identifying blunders and count unsaved one-on-one situations as such.

I don't care if Mehdi Rahmati is the best GK in the universe in your opinion , I still have enough vision , eye sight and knowledge to decide when a GK is playing quite badly. The facts are clear to me 1) Rahmati is a bad goalkeeper at the present and is a great risk. 2) Aghili is on a slide as well , so we have a serious gap in the defense system of Team Melli.

And I have that as well, what we are discussing is who's judgement is wrong. And you are dramatic on Aghily too, he's a solid defender and that any player can be in better or worse shape during the year is nothing really worrying..

[maij]

As far as I know, Iranian football is not your professional field but your hobby. So the comparison doesn't make sense. I didn't say Queiroz should be grateful, I said you fans should be grateful.

I don't think you understood the jest of what I said. Both you and me and the rest of the world KNOW that football is not my profession , so what is the point of mentioning the obvious , I wonder?
I said in the professional world ( and football is a profession) if you accept low standard , then you you are liable to lose your job. In my profession , accepting low quality or inferior performance could mean loss of life and catastrophe.

BTW: Where did I mention Queiroz in that argument ???

My point is not that anyone makes mistakes so regardless of how many mistakes of what kind, noone is allowed to critisize. My point is that the standards you and others set are not even set for the best of the world. Two blunders in a season are nothing, and in my opinion Neuer's are even worse than Rahmati's. Yes, I know, some have very creative ways of identifying blunders and count unsaved one-on-one situations as such.

First of all , I am not judging Rahmati based on the match against Al Jazeera, period.

I do not want to prolong the argument on that point as I have been critical of his performance for a long time. Don't need to go very far . Just look at this VERY thread to have an idea on my concerns.

...And I have no argument about the fact that anyone is liable to make a mistake , again you are mentioning the very obvious. The difference between your viewpoint and mine ( that could also be a difference in our different mentalities ) is that I believe because of this very fact ( Human error and performance degradation) , the system must have firewalls and protections in order to protect the masses , the organization or the team , in case of football, against the errors and not to allow it to reach a critical level.

You tend to stay put on the idea that because that individual (Rahmati) was good and I do not deny that he was good , then he should be good and be allowed to commit errors , because in your mindset , anyone is liable to make a mistake and hence the alternative player will make mistakes as well. Better the devil I know

And I have that as well, what we are discussing is who's judgement is wrong. And you are dramatic on Aghily too, he's a solid defender and that any player can be in better or worse shape during the year is nothing really worrying..

Again , and true to form , you think since Aghili is a "solid defender" ( and that is your words and not mine) , then he , like Rahmati , will continue to be solid and any poor performance by him is acceptable and should not be dramatized ( again your words)

may be it is dramatic in your opinion , or whatever but I tend to judge based on my own observations rather than be driven by other people's opinion. Sometimes people share my opinion and sometimes not but since I have been watching and attending football matches , before most of the people in the website were even born , I tend to have this advantage , don't you think so ?