Why can n't they just shot the hell up ?

[zzgloo]

This is getting rediculouse....can we ever have a professional team with such cry baby players ?

This time,maydavoudi...raising hell in the stedium,and for whole week......shouting,criticising,every body....just because the coach did not play him enough..even though,the coah had given up,and played him against the Qatar club....
Or,the Jabbari out cries.....or the karimi repeated arrogant demands,who wants to coach the team...
The list is too long....and there is not a mounth we would not have such insisdents.....
......aside the fact,they are notr proffessional....is n't it also the fault of clubds and IFF........The decipillenary commetee is not the answer.....why can n't they just improve the contenet of the contracts players sign...and penalize them havey amounts..and punish them where it hurts !
Havey penalties such as equal to Six month of Income, and 6 games ban,for the first time offense , and more for the following offenses...for any comments that may damage the team chemistry and the team image while employed by the club, penalties should be enforced even when player resignes.. .......while they would be free to say what they want when not employed.

[Kavian]

My friend, punishment is never the answer!

You need to create an environment that is self-deciplinary and self-regulating. An environment that is based on true professionalism, respect, trust and integrity - and I realize none of that exist in Iran at the moment. which is very regretful!

And frankly, until we have the IR culture dominating our nation, this is not going to improve!!! Kaar az richeh kharabeh!!

[KeonKish]

BTW Jabbari deserves to complain about Mazloomi, the guys an idiot. But meydavoodi has really let me down, He was in great form earlier this year, and was playing great, and he just got lazy and fat for no reason.

[zzgloo]

My friend, punishment is never the answer!

You need to create an environment that is self-deciplinary and self-regulating. An environment that is based on true professionalism, respect, trust and integrity - and I realize none of that exist in Iran at the moment. which is very regretful!

And frankly, until we have the IR culture dominating our nation, this is not going to improve!!! Kaar az richeh kharabeh!!

I believe,punishement..specilay,unbaised consistant punishment is the only answer......
The whole civilization of the west,and respect for Law,has come from consistancy of enforcement of unbaised Law.....
only punishement,the one that hurts,will be remembered,and in time,will be institutionalised..as they call it in IRAN : " NAHAADINEH SHODAN "..and after a couple of generation,it will be called Civilized !
there must be an accountability,other wise,it will be continued.

[maij]

My friend, punishment is never the answer!

You need to create an environment that is self-deciplinary and self-regulating. An environment that is based on true professionalism, respect, trust and integrity - and I realize none of that exist in Iran at the moment. which is very regretful!

And frankly, until we have the IR culture dominating our nation, this is not going to improve!!! Kaar az richeh kharabeh!!

Are you suggesting that there should be no more foul calls, penalties , yellow card , red cards , suspensions and so ?
I am interested to know that.

I strongly agree with your Self-discipline idea, but it only works in certain environments. I truly believe that Iran as a society and the general public, self-discipline is still far from being achieved or implemented and that includes football. However, I completely disagree with you that this lack of self-discipline is due to the regime, if that is what you meant. Iranians have always blamed the regimes for their own personal shortcomings; I have lived through the Imperial Iran and the Islamic one. Very little has changed in the attitude of the people towards life and especially when it comes to accountability and accepting responsibility of their conducts, despite the tremendous improvement in education.

Back to Bahram's points. I strongly agree with his points. It is quite sad to see such attitudes in Iran's football but frankly, it is not very surprising. I mean look at the fans themselves. Any misbehavior or infractions or violations by Ali Karimi is considered a heroic act…A HEROIC ACT BY A HERO!!!!!
So , what do you expect from the players if the fans themselves and the media , promote such attitudes?
What do you expect from fans who swear, utter explicit profanities against referees and coaches they do not like ?

[maij]

Here is yet another example of yesterday's match

بازیکن باتجربه تیم فوتبال استقلال که نسبت به نیمکت نشینی اش اعتراض داشت، در تونل ورزشگاه آزادی به داد و فریاد پرداخت.
به گزارش خبرنگار مهر، مهدی امیرآبادی که اعتراضاتش به پرویز مظلومی را از تمرین سه شنبه استقلال آغاز کرده بود، پس از پایان دیدار این تیم برابر الریان قطر که با پیروزی آبی پوشان همراه بود در تونل و رختکن ورزشگاه آزادی به داد و فریاد پرداخت و نسبت به نیمکت نشینی اش اعتراض کرد. البته نزدیکان استقلال خیلی زود رسیدند و او را به رختکن بردند اما در رختکن هم این اعتراضات ادامه داشت. امیرآبادی در تمرین روز سه شنبه استقلال نیز به این موضوع که چرا پرویز مظلومی او را به عنوان کاپیتان به نشست خبری نبرده است اعتراض کرد و حتی کار به درگیری لفظی با سرمربی استقلال کشید.

[Kavian]

You both missed my point!!

I don't approve of bad behaviour nor I suggested anything to do with abolishing yellow cards or pentality in the game and I certainly don't agree with the argument that the western civilizations were created based on punishment .. where did you get that???

Anyway, I am equally bothered as both of you are, by the kind of Ali Karimi or Amirabadi's behaviour but I strongly think the problem that leads to this kind of events are far more rooted in our football culture than it can be corrected by punishment. That of course is aside from the fact that personally I don't beleive in punishment as a tool for correcting behaviour.

Having said that, let me remind you that players are not the only part of our football that behave badly?

What about coaches who physically and verbally abuse their players or ask them to run around the field in front of the fans to ridicule them?
What about the fans who chant profanities against players/coaches/referees?
What about the TV commentator and his so called guest who have no respect for each other and talk in the lowest possible manner?
What about our media from the reporter to the print that communicates rubbish and promotes bad behaviour?
What about the head our federation whose just being there is an insult to our entire football?
What about the players who beat each other up in front of the camera playing at the highest even in Asia?
What about clubs that don't pay their players and constantly cheat them?
What about all the complaints that are taken to fifa against our teams, and federations?
What about a Basiji e bi saavad who is appointed as the head a football club?
What about us? we also behave badly here too from time to time?

As you can see, the cause of player's bad behaviour is rooted in so many things and until you correct everything as a whole, you cannot expect to have among all the rubbish that goes on, players who behave properly.

Remeding one of the symptoms won't get rid of the cause.

Back to you ..

[maij]

Kavian jan,
To start with , I am glad that you condemn the unruly behaviors of footballers.


Second , as for punishment , I have a different view point than yours and do believe in punishment in society. If it was an ideal world, then my viewpoints would have been entirely different and we probably would not even be discussing punishment as in the ideal world it would not be necessary to punish anyone. However , reality is different so punishment is a tool and a deterrent to protect others. No one says or claims that the stronger the punishment, the safer is the society and more law abiding the citizens would be. I would not dare to say what a good punishment is and what is bad. It is one very complicated subject that is beyond the scope of our discussion, but I feel punishment to be necessary for the interest of the majority.

As for the infractions of others, like the fans, administrators, coaches ...etc. Of course they should be dealt with sternly like for the players. I hope you are not indemnifying the player's behavior by referring to other people's wrongdoing?!! Are you?
I am uncomfortable but accustomed to this stereotypical thinking by many people in this part of the world who always try to blame others for their failures or try to justify their ill action and even crimes by mentioning others who have committed the same !!!!!

At the end of the day, the footballers are part of the society’s fabric. What they display on & off the field and how they behave is reflecting the society in general. Of course, there will always be exceptions but it is not difficult to see what sort of society these people live in while you what their football.

[zzgloo]

Punishment is the key.......it stablishes,accountability,motivation,fairness....
The whole western world's civilized ,self checking management system, also was initialy based on " Punishment "...which after couple or so generation of consistancy in punishement....the society got the message !..and started self policing itself !..which later truned to civilized society..
....
All other shortcomings in IRANIAN system, also comes from lack of punishement........Lack of " Replacing ", Lack of " Firing ",lack of accountability......
Insecurety in Jobs,creates proficiency !and work ethics !