Iran - Qatar WCQ 6/12/12

[maij]

"اين بازي كسل*كننده دقيقا 95 دقيقه وقت تلف شده داشت. 5 دقيقه را قطري*ها تلف كردند، 90 دقيقه را خودمان"

Hehehheeee....I love that...... Absloutely a class quote.

[maij]

^ why shd they? do we have coaching certificates? No. so we shd not dare question the lack of plan B

Oh..yeah....that reminds of the something very important in our culture...

This is Imam Khomeini commandment, you do not question Imam Khomeini.

[Mr.Good]

CQ's biggest mistake was starting HajSafi and Heidari as wingers. This way he lost two subs at half-time and could not do much toward the end of the game. He should have started with Khalatbari and Dejagah, or at least one of them.

[Nokhodi]

1 - Defense was good. I don't care if Qatar barely attacked. Had they scored just one goal on a counter, you would have been asking for their heads.
2 - Players simply aren't good enough (except for a few), we need to realize this. CQ himself said I did not ask the players to cross in such a manner. Coach can only do so much when the tools he has are weak.
3 - Home advantage means nothing to TM anymore. It used to mean automatic win, now it means the fans holding their breath till the last minute for fear of some tokhmi team getting a cheap one in.
4 - Ansarifard needs space to play his style. He needs to move forward. He doesn't do well as a target man. He was not fed well.
5 - MIDFIELD LEARN HOW TO PASS! It seems some of the wingers and midfielders have forgotten the very basics of passing.
6 - A half-injured Dejagah has more urgency and sense to get forward (and back) than the rest.
7 - The attacking power on this team is zero. No combination play, no through balls, not even 30 yard blasts!
8 - Players don't have confidence, this is CQ's issue.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ lets assume CQ didnt want players to keep sending crosses. isnt there a solution to this? couldnt he come to the line and yell at them to stop sending crosses? isnt that a part of coaching duties? to interfere and change things in the middle of the game?

CQ has a lot to answer for. lets rack'em up:
1- starting line up and the duties asked of them.
2- formation chosen for a home game against an exhausted and weaker opponent
3- too defensive a strategy chosen for a large part of the game (that too aganst a team opting to defend en-mass!)
4- failure to call up the best possible players in the squad, in case his first choices didnt perform well (pointing at ansarifard as the only supposed forward while Gholami was available. even if ghazi & Nowrouzi were injured)
5- keeping the poor performing ansarifard for 90 minutes
6- failure to change things during the play as well as the half-time. especially on the matter of useless crosses
7- failure to have a plan B
8- failure to remind players to employ other tactics like shooting or keeping the ball on the ground or ... even if it didnt strike the players' mind



if we're going to place full blame on the players (they do share the blame) and say it's all becoz we dont have the right tools for CQ or ..., then why the hell are we paying shit-load of money for a coach who cant make any difference anyway? might as well let some vatani chap do it for a fraction of the price, eh? afterall it is only the same "tools" at his disposal and this is all these tools are capable of. the only difference is we save a bundle of money in the process

[KasraKhan]

Good points and thread so far.

I just want to add that I never thought I would say this, but we really missed Ghazi this match. Ghazi is the closest thing we have to a target forward. He isn't great with his feet, but he is decent in the air and has a physical presence. We did not have another target striker on the bench. Target strikers are huge for TM, especially because all TM players have the innate quality to want to "bezen zeeresh" and cross the ball. That's why I've always been an advocate of Farzad Hatami from Traktor. He isn't great, but he is a decent target striker.

As Nokhodi validly pointed out, Ansarifard isn't really a target striker. He is more of a support striker who needs to play in space and receive balls on the ground to be effective. Ansarifard isn't really a threat in the air, so I have NO IDEA why we kept aimlessly crossing to him.

By the way, Khosrow Heydari had a horrible game. Before the match, I preferred him at RB over Mahini, but he made me eat my words with salt. Heydari is so god damn predictable. Every time he gets the ball, he just puts his head down, winds up like a century-old windmill, and aimlessly crosses the ball to nobody in particular. He is really an amateur player. One footed. Always has his head down. Extremely predictable. No creativity. Nothing. I don't like the fact that CQ has been playing him at RM recently. He just doesn't produce anything positive to the team. The only thing he can do well is cross yet CQ has Ando or Dejagah taking our corners so Heydari can stay back and defend so Aghili/Hosseini can come up. I can confidently say that Heydari turned over 85% of the balls he got because of his aimless crosses. Possession killer.

Also, although I like CQ, I must admit, that Qatar's coach, Autori, has out coached him three times in a row. Qatar looked more organized and effective today than we did. Autori has figured us out, and CQ has yet to respond.

[purple_haze]

What remains to be said? Starting a home game in front of 100k with 6 defenders and 2 defensive mids?! Really?! And some used to call Branko for cautious!!! CQ had one single plan without a backup plan for this game and he tried to execute it with the wrong set of players! The strategy was the same Ali Asghari system that we tried to get away from by signing foreign coaches 12-14 years ago!

Ofcourse one can not overlook one thing that I predicted and said around 4 years ago that many disagreed with and that's the low quality of our recent generation of footballers. We got spoiled with a couple of good generation of footballers but unfortunately the recent ones are far from them in terms of quality, talent and IQ.

Just a simple comparison between what we had up to 6 years ago and what we have now is scary and sad!
If we rate them from 1 to 10 (10 is relative to the maximum of Iranian players level and in Asia, not international level) we'll see the following:

GK 98 : Abedzadeh 9
GK 06 : Mirzapour 4
GK now : Rahmati 8

Right backs (98 team can't really be measured since they played 3-5-2) but players who could do the job in that system: Zarrinche 5-6
RB 06 : Kaebi 6
RB now: Mahini 5-6

Left backs again same as above for the 98 team if employed as Left backs : Shahroudi and Minavand both 6-7
LB 06 : Nosrati and Zare both 2-3
LB now : Pooladi 6 Hajsafi 5

CD 98 : Khakpour, Pashazadeh and Mohammadkhani 7-8
CD 06 : Golmohammadi and Rezaei 7-8 (higher rating because of Gol Mo's IQ and playmaking ability from the backline)
CD now: 6-7

Defensive mids and Central Mids, once again a different system but if we apply it to those available in 98: Estili 6-7 Bagheri 7-8(as DM/CM)
DM 06: Nekounam 7-8, Ando 6-7
DM now: Nekounam 5-6, Ando 7-8

OMs 98: Bagheri 9-10, Mahdavikia 9-10, Mansourian 7, Minavand (as LM) 6
OM 06: Karimi 9-10, Mahdavikia 9-10, Zandi 7, Nikbakht 6-7
OM now: Karimi 5-6, Heydari 4, Hajsafi 4, Jabbari 6-7, Rezaei 4, Khalatbari 5, Dezhagah 7-8

Forwards 98: Daei 9-10, Azizi 9-10
Forwards 06: Daei 6-7, Hashemian 7-8
Forwards now: Ghazi 5, Ansarifard 4

We are far below the 98' team and compared to 06 we have imroved in GK and LB positions, we are basically the same in CD and DM but are lacking badly in raw talent in the offensive positions!

[maij]

CQ's biggest mistake was starting HajSafi and Heidari as wingers. This way he lost two subs at half-time and could not do much toward the end of the game. He should have started with Khalatbari and Dejagah, or at least one of them.

In defense of Queiroz , Dejageh was NOT fully match fit and hence we should give CQ the benefit of the doubt.

As for Khalatbari, I was never one of his avid fans and I doubt that I will change my mind on him anytime soon . I really do not see his value in the team playing more than 45 minutes. This players has more weaknesses than strengths.

[maij]

if we're going to place full blame on the players (they do share the blame) and say it's all becoz we dont have the right tools for CQ or ..., then why the hell are we paying shit-load of money for a coach who cant make any difference anyway? might as well let some vatani chap do it for a fraction of the price, eh? afterall it is only the same "tools" at his disposal and this is all these tools are capable of. the only difference is we save a bundle of money in the process

this is EXACTLY my argument with the majority here and I am glad that you have highlighted it.

I keep preaching that wins and losses must not and cannot be attributed to a single reason or one person. Of course CQ is not the only reason or the lone culprit for poor results/performances. BUT , he is damn accountable ten times over for the very reasons you have nicely put.

It is a robbery , a fraud , a professional failure . loss of ethics if a person knowingly DOES NOT believe that he has the right resources yet he promises things that are not achievable.

How can we say that this squad is weak ? Who is actually weak , Karimi , Ansarifard , Rahmati ? If they are weak , why are they representing Iran ? Who has selected them ? Who is playing them ? The fact that we criticize them occasionally, does not mean they are not worth representing their country. They are the best that we have and we need a coaching staff and system that can skillfully manipulate their skills and turn them into a force in football.

We need to be level-headed and reasonable. Granted , we do not have the best squad in Asia , or even in West Asia , but taking all the circumstances , I think it is NOT unreasonable to have faith in this squad to make it to Brazil on the condition that the team is coached properly and up to their abilities.

[Doctor DOOM]

A little more on the matter of crosses, since this was the ONLY game plan CQ had proposed (without a plan B) and neither CQ nor the players though of actually not crossing and keeping the ball on the ground.
so lets say one plan instructed for the game: cross, cross and cross. and when you get tired, cross some more
the problem with this issue is many folds actually.

1- first and foremost, we didnt have enough bodies in qatari box to meet these crosses. we played with a single forward who was too weak and shy to tangle with the defenders. That's it.
karimi was always a few yards behind and his age also is a factor which prevents him to reach the area quickly.
so who else did we have to meet these crosses ... even when some of these crosses were done properly with the right pace and angle and position (and we did have quite a few correct ones)?
so the chosen formation of a single forward is one part of the problem

guilty parties:
A) the coach for his chosen formation
B) the coach for his player selection for the lone forward post
C) the coach for not having selected a viable alternative to the lone forward post (gholami was available)
D) Ballerina for being too bloody weak and sissy


2- the problem with half of these crosses was that they were initiated too early also. some of them were done as soon as the flank player got past the bloody midline!!!! why the bloody hell do you cross from that angle? even if we had 2-3 players in the box (which we didnt ... thanks to the nonsense 4-2-3-1 formation), majority of these balls would be extremely easy to read by not only the defenders, but by the keeper too.
and that's exactly what happened. the keeper had perfect view of crosses coming in, had enough time to reach the spot (since such crosses take more time to reach the spot compared to those coming in from close to corner flags).

the best way they could have carried on with this UNI-DIMENSIONAL (by Mr. internationally famous coach) strategy was to come more forward, down the line, closer to the corner flag and then cross. this would mean they would force the qatari right and left defenders to separate from their bunch and come out to meet/block our players (stretching the defense thin).
also such crosses take less time and if done properly with in-swing or out-swing, will trick the keeper into making mistakes on his exits.
(but what would have been the use since we had one forward and that too a bloody sissy one!)

Guilty parties:
A) the flank players for rushing into crosses from wherever on the pitch
B) the coach for not screaming and drilling it into their heads that they shd go further up


3- Then there is the problem of the spot chosen for the ball to land. majority of them were smack in the middle of the box!! even after seeing the giant keeper collecting so many of them, our players didnt have the presence of mind to try different areas like near post or past the far post! they just mindlessly kept on sending balls to the middle again and again!!

Guilty parties:
1- the players for not having enough IQ to learn from this
2- the players parents for shirking in their duties to educate their offsprings and turning up such dumbos to the society!
3- the coach for not correcting it by shouting instructions at them


Therefore, maybe we had a different formation (as always I say lets pick the EASIEST and least complicated for our amateurish players to understand: 4-4-2) with two men up and had the coach corrected this during the first half, or at least during the break, we MAY have gotten a better result.

[Doctor DOOM]

LOL. btw, in the middle of all the higgeldy piggeldy of the team blundering their way to minute 90, I think we all missed CQ's master stroke of the third sub. more precisely, his choice of bringing in YET ANOTHER DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, Maziyar zareh!!!!
hahahahaha

I guess having only TWO def-mids against a team hell-bent on parking the bus and leaving only a single player up, also playing AT HOME, in front of a whopping 100,000 screaming fans .... was just "too risky" for our Mr. internationally famous coach. and he had to bolster our defense more by bringing another def-mid for a .... yes, a STRIKER!!!!
hahahahaha.
if only it wasnt Iran's team I would have really enjoyed this ridiculous comedy show, rolling on the floor.
(Instead of pulling my hair out and screaming in frustration till I spat blood, at the horrifying stupidity of what was happening on the field!)

nobody questioned CQ on this brilliant move as there was a bundle of other f**k-ups to hang him for anyway.
why was zareh brought in?
is he a tall player and a good header of the ball?
NO. he's always standing outside the box on set pieces

is he a good shooter of the ball?
90% of his shots crash into the stadium clock. So, despite the rumors (based on a couple of shots seen in the span of 6 years), I'm going with a "no"

but lets say those 2-3 shots (done in the past 6 years) was justification enough for the coach to bring in a shooter.
THEN WHY THE F**K SO LATE? at minute 90?
did he even touch the ball once? why do you bring in a shooter SO BLOODY LATE?


and why take out a striker? I know we are railing against ballerina. but there were plenty of better choices from deeper in the lines like ando, who was yellow carded. or nekuonam, who wasnt playing well at all.

horrible third sub strategy! timing as well as choice.

[Mr.Good]

Just loking back at the match (which is very easy to do now) I'm saying that his selection of wingers were not correct and this way he lost his ability to do much in the second half with substitution. I know dejagah was not match fit and Khalatbari is not a savior but comparing them to Mr. Long-Throw-ins and Mr. Cross-the-ball-always, I would take half player Dejagah and Khalatbari.
I'm not blaming CQ at all. He did not have influential players such as Ghazi and Jabbari and to be honest our bench is not that deep.
Also don't forget that Qatar came to defend and they did well. Their goalie leaving aside his time wasting antiques also had a great day. Qatar was playing 4-5-1 with 3 defensive midfielders and two wingers that were defending always. They closed the mid and the sides. Qatar had 5-6 new starters compared to their last match against Korea. We will have more chances against Qatar if we play in their own home, because then they will come out and attack.


Overall, it is still very early. We should not panic,

[Doctor DOOM]

yes, they played 4-5-1 and packed the defense. their coach had talked about this all week ... which made analysis of the game for CQ 10 times easier.
but what did CQ do with such info?
instead of using his older formation (tried early in his tenure here) 4-3-3, he surprised us as well as qataris with a defensive one (one more formation like this and the term can easily change to 'gutless/spineless')!

also seeing such packed defense, as a coach you ought to know you gotta stretch them with wing play near the flanks.
and lets not forget taking shots from range. not only you might get a deflection or two, you also force some of the defenders to leave the pack and come out to block pr prevent you shooting .... which means less of a crowd inside the box for the strikers to deal with.

these are rudimentary stuff that anyone who's watched 3 football games would know. what's the excuse for Mr. portugal/realmadrid coach, CQ's brain freeze?

[Mr.Good]

^ The thing is that they packed the defense edge to edge from one side to the other. There were space in the flanks to cross from. even if the team goes to the flank and stretch them, then what? cross to the keeper?
The thing is, it is very difficult to penetrate packed defense, Barca could not do it, TM will not do it. TM could do it when we had Daei and Hashemian. Those days we could score mainly because we had the players that could do it from free-kicks. For wc06 we qualified because we scored goals from free kicks, we won against Jordan, NK, Bahrain and Japan all from free kicks. That was because we had players that could cross the ball (Kia, Zandi) and people that could score, (Daei, Hashemian, Nickbakht, Golmohammadi, ..)
who we have now that can do that now.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ this still reflects on many issues that point at CQ

1- player selection, especially alternative center forward
2- formation (lone forward)
3- instruction to keep the ball on the ground (for both crossing or penetrating into the box by the winger or a cut back to a surging midfielder) instead of just crossing it high


besides, at present times, we do have good headers of the ball to use in set pieces (if not on daei's level) like aghili, hosseini, nekounam, ghazi, ... to make up for VH, golmohamadi, niki, ... .

as for barca vs chelsea, I really hope you are not comparing that match up with this one.
but even then, barca was showing some of the defects we showed here. the difference is barca didnt have a tall/strong forward in their CLUB squad. but a national team coach has the entire country as a pool to pick and there were choices he didnt pick (gholami is one such option).
besides barca insists on barca style no matter if they are 3 goals ahead or 3 goals behind (and that IS a frustrating matter for its fans). cant be compared to TM

hell, if CQ was so insistent on aerial game and high balls and crosses, why did he not pick someone like seyed salehi who is far more successful on such balls than ansarifard? as nat'l team coach he certainly can pick just about anyone if he has such game-plans in mind