Is Queiroz failing?

[maij]

if we define Queiroz job description and responsibility as written above, then I say "YES" he is falling.

But if I am allowed to elaborate and add a little bit thoughts on this, I would re-write: "Is IFF mismanagement falling Queiroz?"
Why?
I think nobody doubts Queiroz experience and knowledge of the game, but every great coach needs certain criterias fullfield by his club or in this case federation to work towards his aims. Questions rise:

1, Can Queiroz chose any team he wishes to prepare TM in friendly games?
Answer is NO, I do not think any high profile teams would come to Iran or play Iran outside in friendlies, rather we see many promised friendlies getting cancelled, and we end up always playing with weak "iran politically freindly nations".

2. Does Queiroz receives all the facilities he needs to prepare the TM, such as training facilities, camps?
I don't know the answer, maybe yes, maybe no.

3. Did IFF succeed to keep his coaching staff contractually binded or do certain TM coaching staff leave TM for other countries?
Answer is IFF failed, as we have seen some Queiroz assistants terminating their contracts and leave Iran. And Queiroz has to start all over integrateing new staff etc etc..

4. The usual point, IFF still did not manage to create solid ground for youth teams etc... but that is an ongoing problem since ages.


now, I do not want to sound that I defend Queiroz and say he is mistake free. No, thats not my intention. But i think if Queiroz was doing this job in any other country in the region he would have delivered better results!

I put the blame also (heavily) on IFF too!

I most definitely do not believe that failure of a system, and in this case a football team, can be attributed to a single person.

The reasons that you have mentioned , like not being able to play whoever team he wants, is NOT new to any coach in Iran or any other country as far as I know. Hodgson cannot simply pick up the phone from the English FA headquarters and demand a friendly match with Germany of Brazil at will. There are logistical problem for every coach in the world. In fact Queiroz is himself guilty of selecting poor quality teams to play against , for what I suspect to be fear of losing and embarrassment.

Let me add this fact. As far as I know , there has been no Team Melli coach (local or foreign) that has received so much support and backing by IFF like what Carlos Queiroz has received. Period.
Where on earth would you find a football association cancelling a cup completion just to satisfy national team coach ??? And let me not start on Mr. Queiroz demand to reduce the number of League teams !!!!! ...Ajab !!


I am no admirer of that silly grin Ali Kaffashian , but truth to be told , his administration has done more than enough to support Queiroz. No question asked. Kaffashian even managed to win a handsome government handout to support Team Melli's programs & preparations for the World Cup , while IFF was running out of money to pay its own employees.

As much as you do not want to sound like a Queiroz defender , I also think records should be put straight about the total commitment and support that IFF has given to the Portuguese coach who has failed to deliver.

[maij]

با اين اسمي*هاي درمانده تا كجا مي*خواهيد برويد آقاي كي*روش؟

سیامک رحمانی


دليل دلبستگي كي*روش به بازيكنان پا به سن گذاشته را نمي*فهميم. تا پيش از اين همه توجيه كادر فني اين بود كه كي*روش به تجربه بين*المللي بازيكنانش اهميت بسياري مي*دهد. خود كي*روش اين را وقتي گفت كه بازوبند كاپيتاني را به نكونام داد. در زماني كه بسياري اعتقاد داشتند كه كريمي با كاريزما و محبوبيت*اش براي كاپيتاني تيم ملي مناسب*تر است. اما كي*روش روي سابقه بازي*هاي بين*المللي و تجربه نكونام تاكيد كرد و بازوبند را به او داد.

زمان گذشت و نكونام از وجهه اسپانيايي*اش دل كند و كي*روش از او دل نكند. نكونام و كريمي هر دو در باشگاه*هايشان به بازيكناني نامطمئن تبديل شدند و كي*روش از آنها دل نكند. نكونام حتي از طرف هواداران باشگاه تازه*اش مورد انتقاد قرار گرفت و كريمي به خاطر آن كه نمي توانست 90 دقيقه حضور موثر داشته باشد و به خاطر غرغرهايش به نيمكت پرسپوليس نزديك شد و كي*روش از آنها دل نكند. او روز بازي با لبنان هم نود دقيقه وسط زمين*اش را به بازيكنان پا به سن گذاشته*اش داد و بازي را باخت.

خط حمله تيمش را يك نيمه به بازيكني چون انصاري*فرد سپرد و بازي را باخت. انصاري*فردي كه در تيم خودش هم زير فشار است. گل نمي زند و روي نيمكت مي*نشيند. كي*روش در همه ماه*هاي گذشته تخم*مرغ*هايش را در سبد تجربه و اسم بازيكنانش گذاشته.

ليگ كه شروع شد انتظار اين بود كه او بازي*ها را ببيند. آمادگي جوان*ها را در فجر سپاسي و صبا و پيكان ببيند. انتظار اين بود كه نتايج فضاحت*بار پرسپوليس و كيفيت متوسط استقلال را ببيند، بازي*هاي پرانتقاد ستاره*ها را در اين دو تيم ببيند. همه فكر مي*كردند با وضعيتي كه در ليگ حاكم است، اگر همه تيم ملي متحول نشود، بخشي از آن دستخوش تغيير خواهد شد. بازيكنان جوان و پرانگيزه*اي كه اين هفته*ها در ليگ مي*درخشند، به اردو و تمرينات خواهند آمد و انرژي*شان را به تيم اصلي تزريق خواهند كرد.

همه تصور اين بود كه رضا حقيقي و فروزان و يعقوب كريمي و مجتبي شيري و خيل ديگري كه رو آمده*اند بازيكنان ثابت تيم*ملي را تهديد خواهند كرد. هيچ اتفاقي نيفتاد اما. رحمتي با همه اشتباهاتش همچنان شماره يك ماند، نكونام همچنان وسط ميدان را در دست داشت -داشت؟- و كريمي نود دقيقه در زمين بود. نه مهاجم تازه*اي در تيم*ازمايش شد و نه بازيكن دونده*اي آمد كه حداقل در زمين بدود و بجنگد.

امروز سوال از كي*روش اين است كه همه آن اصرار براي حفظ اسمي هاي تيم ملي براي چه بوده است؟ براي اين كه با قطر مساوي كنيم و به لبنان ببازيم؟ اينجا موضوع ضعف قطر و لبنان نيست. ديگر گذشته زماني كه انتظار داشتيم همه تيم*ها را ببريم و خود را قدرت اول آسيا بدانيم. قطر و لبنان و بسياري ديگر از تيم*ها در اين سال*ها كه ما در خواب بوده*ايم تلاش بيشتري كرده*اند و حالا همان فاصله*اي را با ما ندارند كه در گذشته داشته*اند. حواسمان هست كه اين لبنان پيش از اين كره*جنوبي را هم برده. حواسمان هست كه قطر ميزبان آتي جام*جهاني است. داريم درباره نمايش حيرت*انگيز و بي*كيفيت تيم ملي حرف مي*زنيم. ليگ فوتبال ايران ليگي سطح پايين و غيرحرفه*اي است. بازيكنان ايران ديگر شايستگي رفتن به باشگاه*هاي بزرگ اروپايي را ندارند. همه اينها قبول.

اين كه كي*روش چند بازيكن اصلي*اش را در اختيار ندارد، اين كه اشكان دژاگه و آندو تيموريان و پولادي و خسرو حيدري و جباري اگر بودند تركيب تيم ملي چيز ديگري بود هم قبول.

اما سوال از كي*روش اين است كه بازي بازيكنان ثابت*اش را مي*بيند يا نه؟ بازي جوان*هاي ليگ را مي*بيند يا نه؟ اين تيم ملي شايد به جام*جهاني هم نرسد. اما اگر قرار باشد نتيجه هم نگيريم، نمايش درخوري هم نداشته باشيم و جسارتي هم به خرج ندهيم حضورمان چه فايده*اي دارد؟ آقاي كي*روش بايد بگويد همه ليگ برايش چه ارزشي دارد؟ محافظه*كاري او اگر قرار باشد ما را نجات ندهد، بيچاره*مان خواهد كرد. اتفاقي كه اگر در بازي لبنان نيفتاده باشد هم فردا خواهد افتاد

Very nice article by Rahmani.

You know what the irony is , though ??

We have mentioned all of what Siamak Rahmani said in this very forum and repeatedly. From the ineffectiveness and poor Nekounam , to running out of breath Karimi to the blatant disregard for the young talented & skillful players that are emerging up in the league to the insistence of Querioz to selected the same old names despite their poor performances with their clubs , and his rest....

[maij]

I am afraid we are getting closer to the answer.

The key was to bring in youngsters and help the players talent reach their ceiling (and above).

Unfortunately, the persistancy on starting and inviting older players is killing the team. Carlos is failing faster than I thought, and reaching miracle level line ...

Yep.... I surely agree now that we have actually reached a conclusion , what ever the next few months will tell us. I definitely pray that Team Melli makes it to the World Cup with or without Queiroz , but to answer this specific question of yours , Mansoor Jan , the answer is YES, Queiroz is failing, big time.

I also like to refer to zereshk-ali's excellent post (#34) on how Queiroz implemented his promotion of young players bck home in Portugal, and I am at odds why the hell he is ignoring his own belief in youth while he is in Iran! I must admit , I have never followed Queiroz closely or had interest in his affairs , until he joined Team Melli , but I find his strategy to be contradictory and quite alien to what he was doing in Portugal. May be , like most of foreign coaches , he is looking to complete his contract as soon as possible , has no time or inclination towards the youth program ( which was evident from day one when he appointed Mansourian as head coach of the Olympic Team) , grab a few good results , earn his money and off he flies back home or to another country willing to accommodate him and his humble services.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

I most definitely do not believe that failure of a system, and in this case a football team, can be attributed to a single person.

The reasons that you have mentioned , like not being able to play whoever team he wants, is NOT new to any coach in Iran or any other country as far as I know. Hodgson cannot simply pick up the phone from the English FA headquarters and demand a friendly match with Germany of Brazil at will. There are logistical problem for every coach in the world. In fact Queiroz is himself guilty of selecting poor quality teams to play against , for what I suspect to be fear of losing and embarrassment.

Let me add this fact. As far as I know , there has been no Team Melli coach (local or foreign) that has received so much support and backing by IFF like what Carlos Queiroz has received. Period.
Where on earth would you find a football association cancelling a cup completion just to satisfy national team coach ??? And let me not start on Mr. Queiroz demand to reduce the number of League teams !!!!! ...Ajab !!


I am no admirer of that silly grin Ali Kaffashian , but truth to be told , his administration has done more than enough to support Queiroz. No question asked. Kaffashian even managed to win a handsome government handout to support Team Melli's programs & preparations for the World Cup , while IFF was running out of money to pay its own employees.


As much as you do not want to sound like a Queiroz defender , I also think records should be put straight about the total commitment and support that IFF has given to the Portuguese coach who has failed to deliver.

Fair point! Agreed!



as I said, I am not saying Queiroz is mistake free (or fault free if you like) here. I was suggesting IFF plays a role too... but agree with your fair judegement/statement as well! We have to look from all angels here.

[St_Mark]

if we define Queiroz job description and responsibility as written above, then I say "YES" he is falling.

But if I am allowed to elaborate and add a little bit thoughts on this, I would re-write: "Is IFF mismanagement falling Queiroz?"
Why?
I think nobody doubts Queiroz experience and knowledge of the game, but every great coach needs certain criterias fullfield by his club or in this case federation to work towards his aims. Questions rise:

1, Can Queiroz chose any team he wishes to prepare TM in friendly games?
Answer is NO, I do not think any high profile teams would come to Iran or play Iran outside in friendlies, rather we see many promised friendlies getting cancelled, and we end up always playing with weak "iran politically freindly nations".

2. Does Queiroz receives all the facilities he needs to prepare the TM, such as training facilities, camps?
I don't know the answer, maybe yes, maybe no.

3. Did IFF succeed to keep his coaching staff contractually binded or do certain TM coaching staff leave TM for other countries?
Answer is IFF failed, as we have seen some Queiroz assistants terminating their contracts and leave Iran. And Queiroz has to start all over integrateing new staff etc etc..

4. The usual point, IFF still did not manage to create solid ground for youth teams etc... but that is an ongoing problem since ages.


now, I do not want to sound that I defend Queiroz and say he is mistake free. No, thats not my intention. But i think if Queiroz was doing this job in any other country in the region he would have delivered better results!

I put the blame also (heavily) on IFF too!

he is
I think what you said is some of possible mechanism of failing and not if he is failing .


trend after 3 games

[Ali Chicago]

Didn't read the whole thread, but my two cents.
1- CQ performance has been very poor so far.
2- My arguement is that our football is going downhill mostly for the following reason (not the only reason). Money influence. I break this further into two areas:
Influence of money in youth programs:

In the so called good old days, the kids were playing in dirt fields. There wasn't any so called youth team per se that your daddy had to pay for you to go and play in. These days, it seems all the youth programs require money for registeration and all. Who can pay for those? People who have money. As a result, lot of the true talents who don't have the money, won't come up through the system. Let's look at it, Karimi and Nekoonam are the last Mohicans from as far back as 1998, I guess. Kazemian, Mobali who were supposed to carry the torch never became one.
As one data point, I refer you to the Hasan Rooshan public fight with Fattollahzadeh and Reza Rajabi who led the Esteghlal's youth program 1 or 2 years ago. Where there was allegations of money paid to Rajabi in order for certain player be included in Esteghlal's youth program.
Another one is the pressure that Hamid Derakhshan put on the youth and omid coaches of Persepolis to include his son. From what I was told, Soltani who is the coach in PP youth program doesn't even come to the PP main practice if he know Hamid Derakhshan is there.

Astronomical payment to the pro players (in IPL ) in Iranian standard

I know we all are asking for privitization in soccer and in general privitization is good. But in specific situation in Iran, it seems the privitization of the youth programs, led to the fact that only certain people who can pay, can be trained in yourth programs and these people aren't IT. While real talents, due to poverty, inflation etc. etc. gets lost. Private sector can work in situation where there is a rule of law and civic culture, in Iran none of that exist. I dare to say the inflow of money into soccer; even in European countries has caused some worries among UEFA officials. Look at Paris St German, Man City and Chelsea. First and their club over 100 million Euro payroll for one year. No wonder UEFA soon bans teams that have debt or spend over certain level from Europan championship.

Addmittedly, I don't have a solution, but I think this issue (Money inflow to soccer), created a situation where, we don't see a new wave talent to emerge. So we still have to rely to Javad Nekoonam and Ali Karimi.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ bah bah bah ali jan, chi shod yadi az maa (pfdc dwellers) kardi , amoo?
baba inghadr donbale pool nabash, hamsh business, business trips, more business deals, ... .
keife donya ro bokon (that, naturally, does not include watching TM torture our brains)



they (the system and I suspect from corridors outisde of sports complexes) have injected so much money into football (the most popular and therefore, the most INFLUENTIAL sport in Iran with a great sway over the youth) and have fed the players and all football related individuals so much that their priorities have changed, they have lost the hunger and drive (that usually comes from the under-privileged classes) and have become mere money-minded automatons in service of the greater system which in turn feeds them their desires; more money.
this change in policy started from 2009 and its events

[TM-Fan]

With Iran's current fuccked up financial situation, I don't think we will see "Billion Toman" contracts in football as of next season... And it will be good because many of the Dallals and Lashkhors will leave football alone and go to other areas, simply because they can no more earn ridiculous amounts of money here.

[Doctor DOOM]

Dont hold ur breath. Even last year our football was quite f&#ked up and we still saw a girlie boy get 1.3 billion in transfer, an out of form rahmati get pretty much the same, and many other ridiculous & undeserved fees like that

That shit originates from elsewhere and will continue inspite of f@#k ups

[maij]

Didn't read the whole thread, but my two cents.
1- CQ performance has been very poor so far.
2- My arguement is that our football is going downhill mostly for the following reason (not the only reason). Money influence. I break this further into two areas:
Influence of money in youth programs:

In the so called good old days, the kids were playing in dirt fields. There wasn't any so called youth team per se that your daddy had to pay for you to go and play in. These days, it seems all the youth programs require money for registeration and all. Who can pay for those? People who have money. As a result, lot of the true talents who don't have the money, won't come up through the system. Let's look at it, Karimi and Nekoonam are the last Mohicans from as far back as 1998, I guess. Kazemian, Mobali who were supposed to carry the torch never became one.
As one data point, I refer you to the Hasan Rooshan public fight with Fattollahzadeh and Reza Rajabi who led the Esteghlal's youth program 1 or 2 years ago. Where there was allegations of money paid to Rajabi in order for certain player be included in Esteghlal's youth program.
Another one is the pressure that Hamid Derakhshan put on the youth and omid coaches of Persepolis to include his son. From what I was told, Soltani who is the coach in PP youth program doesn't even come to the PP main practice if he know Hamid Derakhshan is there.

Astronomical payment to the pro players (in IPL ) in Iranian standard

I know we all are asking for privitization in soccer and in general privitization is good. But in specific situation in Iran, it seems the privitization of the youth programs, led to the fact that only certain people who can pay, can be trained in yourth programs and these people aren't IT. While real talents, due to poverty, inflation etc. etc. gets lost. Private sector can work in situation where there is a rule of law and civic culture, in Iran none of that exist. I dare to say the inflow of money into soccer; even in European countries has caused some worries among UEFA officials. Look at Paris St German, Man City and Chelsea. First and their club over 100 million Euro payroll for one year. No wonder UEFA soon bans teams that have debt or spend over certain level from Europan championship.

Addmittedly, I don't have a solution, but I think this issue (Money inflow to soccer), created a situation where, we don't see a new wave talent to emerge. So we still have to rely to Javad Nekoonam and Ali Karimi.

Ali Agha salam....... Vaghean khoshal shodam.

Welcome back.

A quality post. You have explained one of the real ailments of Iran's football ( money) very well. It goes without a shadow of doubt, in my opinion , that the majority of the players in the League are over-paid and only deserve a fraction of what they are awarded compred to their value , performance and acheivments. Let us not forget the corruption and the amount of money that changes hand when a player is transfered or a contract is renewed in Iran.

[Doctor DOOM]

I was just reading some news and one of the papers have mentioned the ranking of the clubs our starting line up players played in and I see why the team plays so poorly.

when the bulk of the team is from the 16th ranked IPL team (pp), and add a bunch from the 10th (ss), then a 19th ranked la liga player (osasuna), and a few others just as lowly with only Pejman Nouri having the highest rank (5th) in the team, then we have no right to expect even an average performance from this lot.

add the "age" list to this and you'd see why we f**ked up so badly.

[zzgloo]

Ali Jaan salam.......It is good to hear from you again,...
..
Ali and payman, touched upon the foundemental problems of our football...that I like to add..the fact that...when, under Islamic republic, all departements,and all institutions are failing......expecting our football to be different is illogical !.....
Our football, has stoped producing talents long time ago..and coaching and develpomental programs have given ways to ill managerial as well as wrongly based propaganda football...has given us what we have today.......
And I seriously,believe, we should not blaim QC for it........
QC, and the guy before him..Ghotbi, have indirectly made an statement,that they do not trust our football.....Ghotbi, by playing so conservativly,and bringing only experinced players....and CQ,also by using older players, and who ever who has played in Europe!!.............The massage is, they do not see our football worthy of advancement by itself alone......Something we the fans, never accept !,.....
But considering our currant poletical system.......we should .

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I really dont believe we have "stopped producing young talents".
It's a different thing that our coaches, especially at TM dont have the guts to put some trust on our younger players, but I think we still do make a decent amount of fresh talented and skillful youngsters even if it is not as much as 10 years back.

when in Iran, players like sadeghiyan, mosalman, O. ebrahimi, afshin, rahmani, jamaati, aliasgar, lakk, fakhrodini, R. haghighi, khalilzad, alishah, K. rezaei, ... reach ages between 22-24 and still have only a couple of TM caps (if at all. some dont even have that!) then it is not their fault but the TM coaches who dont have the guts to change generations at TM.
it becomes more poignant and disturbing when we see our rivals place so much trust in their 21-24 year olds and create the bulk of their teams from such age groups!


just the names I mentioned above (sar angoshti. there are many more) would be worth their weight in gold in any other country in asia and would be a staple at their national team. But somehow we zoom in on coaches who are overtly cautious and scared to trust our younger generation. even if it needs a little work.
even when we bring in a coach who "CLAIMS & PROMISES" he values youngsters and wants to rejuvenate the team and blah blah blah blah ... . but in reality we see the opposite!!
somehow we have a great tracker and magnet at IFF to find gutless, scared little mice and pick them as coach for TM!

[zzgloo]

Payman Jaan....names by itself is not enough....if they are not in TM already,most probably they are not " Talents "...., beside... these guys are, " TOO LITTLE,TOO LATE ".....,yet, the point of my arguments was not just on production of talents.....as you and ali mentioned, is the whole system being behind...noy just talents....

[Doctor DOOM]

Payman Jaan....names by itself is not enough....if they are not in TM already,most probably they are not " Talents "....,

bahram jan, here is where we part ways and I beg to differ very strongly.
and I just explained why "they are not in TM"