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**zzgloo** · 07-02-2012, 08:44 AM

Wisdom ?!!
In Islamic Republic ??
In Iranian Football ??

**St_Mark** · 07-02-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by zzgloo View Post

Wisdom ?!!
In Islamic Republic ??
In Iranian Football ??

This topic and issue has it's own merit without injecting politics into it.

**zzgloo** · 07-02-2012, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by St_Mark View Post

This topic and issue has it's own merit without injecting politics into it.

My friend....
what is the wisdom of giving millions ,when clubs make no revenue ?
what is the wisdom of giving millions to washed out ,retired players such as hashemian and mahdavikia ?
what is the wisdom of spending so much on football ,but asign non-football,non-experinced management ?
what is the wisdom of spending millions on some clubs but not on others by the government ?
what is wisdom of spending so much on players and coaches when teams do not have fields to practice ?
etc,etc.......
there are millions of other stupid ,without wisdom issue in other sectors of life and managements in IRAN....that have no reason behind them but the stupid poletics of Islamic republic you wish to avoid.

**St_Mark** · 07-02-2012, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by zzgloo View Post

My friend....
what is the wisdom of giving millions ,when clubs make no revenue ?
what is the wisdom of giving millions to washed out ,retired players such as hashemian and mahdavikia ?
what is the wisdom of spending so much on football ,but asign non-football,non-experinced management ?
what is the wisdom of spending millions on some clubs but not on others by the government ?
what is wisdom of spending so much on players and coaches when teams do not have fields to practice ?
etc,etc.......
there are millions of other stupid ,without wisdom issue in other sectors of life and managements in IRAN....that have no reason behind them but the stupid poletics of Islamic republic you wish to avoid.

topic is " "Questioning The Wisdom Of Hiring Foreign Players"
you have questioning wisdom of different issues. They all may be interesting subject but not the issue here.

there are millions of other stupid ,without wisdom issue in other sectors of life and managements in IRAN....that have no reason behind them but the stupid poletics of Islamic republic you wish to avoid

yes i agree with you i am avoiding as you said millions of stupid without wisdom issues . It's not if am avoiding ( or not ) politics it's just my understanding that it's against PFDC rule that they prefer political issues be discussed in some other pages.

last season IFF had banned foreign goal keepers plying in IPL , that policy changed this season. One can question wisdom of both policies without injecting religion or politics into it.

years ago i concluded it's waste of my time and others to discussed political issues in this forum , sine often some members confuse politics with trash talk, insult, accusation, irresponsible argument. I do share and exchange my views in more restricted moderated communities and i have found it to be useful.

leaving politics for others I still post mostly about youth programs here with hope that interest others. Thanks heaven now there are many members involved and hopefully i will not need to post about that either.

**Martin-Reza** · 07-02-2012, 10:53 PM

I don't think any somewhat knowledgable football fan would generally question the benfit of legionnaires in the domestic league.

**Paradigm** · 07-03-2012, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by zzgloo View Post

My friend....
what is the wisdom of giving millions, when clubs make no revenue?
what is the wisdom of giving millions to washed out, retired players such as hashemian and mahdavikia?
what is the wisdom of spending so much on football, but assigning non-football, inexperienced management?
what is the wisdom of spending millions by the government on some clubs but not on others?
what is wisdom of spending so much on players and coaches when teams do not have fields to practice?

^ Great points. I agree 100% with everything.

**zzgloo** · 07-03-2012, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by St_Mark View Post

topic is " "Questioning The Wisdom Of Hiring Foreign Players"
you have questioning wisdom of different issues. They all may be interesting subject but not the issue here.

yes i agree with you i am avoiding as you said millions of stupid without wisdom issues . It's not if am avoiding ( or not ) politics it's just my understanding that it's against PFDC rule that they prefer political issues be discussed in some other pages.

last season IFF had banned foreign goal keepers plying in IPL , that policy changed this season. One can question wisdom of both policies without injecting religion or politics into it.

years ago i concluded it's waste of my time and others to discussed political issues in this forum , sine often some members confuse politics with trash talk, insult, accusation, irresponsible argument. I do share and exchange my views in more restricted moderated communities and i have found it to be useful.

leaving politics for others I still post mostly about youth programs here with hope that interest others. Thanks heaven now there are many members involved and hopefully i will not need to post about that either.

Dear St_Mark....
This is not just football forum...it is football plus forum.....and " Plus " part,is where our exchanges stand....

I am well aware of our previouse exchanges,although long time ago...as I remember, I found you extreemly resourceful..and good in finding reletive articles in internet..specialy information within IRAN...I als remember your poletical stands...which,is only your own business.I also remember how smart and intelegent you are....
nevertheless......I like to appeal to your intelegence,and sense of fairness....regarding the issue, " If We should stay out of poletics in Iranian Football " ?
Is Football in IRAN, same as every where els ?.....does the government of IRAN keeps the poletics out of Football ?.....have you seen the propaganda slogans on players' T-Shirt ?..of all clubs ?....have you noticed the propaganda value of football, ?...the early game speeches ?.....subsedizing clubs ?.........
We Can not stay out of poletics, when The islamic republic, shoves thier propaganda down our throat !!...

and about the topic and stay true to the topic of this thread......
The question was what is the wisdom of hiring forign players ?.......and I answered it ......exactly within the subject.........
I like to know, if any one els, can answer this wisdom better here.

**maij** · 07-03-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by zzgloo View Post

My friend....
what is the wisdom of giving millions ,when clubs make no revenue ?
what is the wisdom of giving millions to washed out ,retired players such as hashemian and mahdavikia ?
what is the wisdom of spending so much on football ,but asign non-football,non-experinced management ?
what is the wisdom of spending millions on some clubs but not on others by the government ?
what is wisdom of spending so much on players and coaches when teams do not have fields to practice ?
etc,etc.......
there are millions of other stupid ,without wisdom issue in other sectors of life and managements in IRAN....that have no reason behind them but the stupid poletics of Islamic republic you wish to avoid.

That is called corruption and corruption is rife in all walks of life in Iran not just football.

There is a lot of money in football and almost all of it comes out of the public funds/taxpayers/national resources fortunes. As much as it is popular and trendy to blame the government for such corruption , it is the people themselves who are corrupt and I mean people who engage in siphoning the money from the public using loopholes in the system or playing on people's sympathy and emotions, moral corruption , cheating and all that jazz. Football is such an easy ground to make money and you don;t have to be a top notch player to make a fortune.

**St_Mark** · 07-03-2012, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by zzgloo View Post

Dear St_Mark....
This is not just football forum...it is football plus forum.....and " Plus " part,is where our exchanges stand....

...regarding the issue,
" If We should stay out of poletics in Iranian Football " ?

I don't think so, but there are place for everything otherwise we are going to mix our football with politics

Is Football in IRAN, same as every where els ?.

No and i don't know for sure if it has to be.

....does the government of IRAN keeps the poletics out of Football ?.

No .

....have you seen the propaganda slogans on players' T-Shirt ?..of all clubs ?
Yes

....have you noticed the propaganda value of football, ?.
yes

..the early game speeches ?.
seen that

....subsedizing clubs ?.
know about that........

We Can not stay out of poletics, when The islamic republic, shoves thier propaganda down our throat !!...

I agree with a reminder we should not do the same mistakes to mix our politics to every issues come across because of what government does.

and about the topic and stay true to the topic of this thread......
The question was what is the wisdom of hiring forign players ?.......and I answered it ......exactly within the subject.........

That i disagree , i think you just did what you accused government doing.
hiring of foreign players is just policy by IFF managers and one may agree or disagree without bringing in IRI... otherwise all we do will be tainted by politics.
one can discuss wisdom of land reform by late Shah without involving wisdom of Monarch or Monarchy.

I like to know, if any one els, can answer this wisdom better here.

My view on your questions:

I am not oppose topics such as political aspects of football in Iran, Government interference, abuse of power and mismanagement by IRI , but i am afraid you won't find anybody here
to disagree that government has failed in all those aspects

My own view of legionnaires and cost benefit.
Just like Martin I think there should not be any doubt domestic league will benefit from hiring
quality players and coaches but just like coach issue critical word is quality.

I don't see benefit of hiring mediocre foreign coach or players. Unless these players are experienced quality players clubs will not benefit and will end up wasting their limited resources.
In case of Foulad , with exception of januario ( several years ago) every other legionnaires has been disappointment and ended up early exit or on the bench.
They had Kaveh Rezaei , they let him go but hire a mediocre foreigner. They were trying hard to hire Jordanian keeper ( thnx heaven they failed because of $$) while beside Salimi they have Mazaheri (U23 ) and Ahaki (u20). Most of these trades are for benefit of brokers and dealers rather tham quality improvement.

**zzgloo** · 07-03-2012, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by St_Mark View Post

My view on your questions:

I am not oppose topics such as political aspects of football in Iran, Government interference, abuse of power and mismanagement by IRI , but i am afraid you won't find anybody here
to disagree that government has failed in all those aspects

My own view of legionnaires and cost benefit.
Just like Martin I think there should not be any doubt domestic league will benefit from hiring
quality players and coaches but just like coach issue critical word is quality.

I don't see benefit of hiring mediocre foreign coach or players. Unless these players are experienced quality players clubs will not benefit and will end up wasting their limited resources.
In case of Foulad , with exception of januario ( several years ago) every other legionnaires has been disappointment and ended up early exit or on the bench.
They had Kaveh Rezaei , they let him go but hire a mediocre foreigner. They were trying hard to hire Jordanian keeper ( thnx heaven they failed because of $$) while beside Salimi they have Mazaheri (U23 ) and Ahaki (u20). Most of these trades are for benefit of brokers and dealers rather tham quality improvement.

I understand......so,we are to find a wisdom ,other than the obviouse.....

here are some related issues;

1- Club managers, look to hire forign players,when there are no domestic players available will the desired skill levels.
2- there seriouse shortages,in particular positions on the field in Iranian football..either permenant shortages ( due to cultural blind spots ), or short term shortages ...positions such as , Center forwards, seem to be cultural permenant shortages...and Goal keepers currant lack of good keepers.
3-Forign players seem to be " The last minute options ", when all els,fail,and a coach has to fill a Void,in a hurry.

**maij** · 07-04-2012, 07:29 AM

St_Mark Jan

**St_Mark** · 07-04-2012, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by maij View Post

St_Mark Jan

Dear:
Just in case of Foulad..
Foulad did not get best of Iraqi national players. Emad First recruited by Foulad but he was mostly injured , Abdulwahab was ok in Ahwaz but moved to Sepahan and when retured to Foulad he has serious issue , complication from previous injury that made one of his leg shorter than other !.
Last Iraqi player Saeed left in middle of season and that was start of trouble for foulad, since young back up Vakia was mostly with U19.

There is no question about benefits of good foreign players and their positive effects but there are also negative effects as well specially if it's not done base on a well thought plan.

So many club in Iran hired Karrar and wasted precious resources but i doubt anyone benefited from that spending plans.
Hiring some of these players who has not been better than Iranian counterpart has been one reason for
uncontrolled rise on price for Iranian players.

few years back , when Khalili top Saipa star left for Perspolis, Kohan started Ansarifard young talent and that was one reason for him to be invited to TM. Imagine if Saipa rather would have hired a foreign player instead. Kohan did the same with Milad Gharibi at 18. Gharibi was reserve for Kaveh in TM u17,19 but in Foulad because of injury and presence of Norouzi he did not get as much playing time. Now Kaveh is resreve for Milad in U21. Noruzi is injured but Foulad hired now a Brazilian forward replacing Norouzi that cause Kaveh moved to Saipa! where he know he can play.
not all these transfers are clean and i suspect beside agents, brokers there are some other intermediators connected to clubs get shom kind of financial benefit that may be driving force.

**KeonKish** · 07-04-2012, 07:59 PM

karrar jasim
Bruno ceasar

**Doctor DOOM** · 07-05-2012, 08:49 AM

^ come on mate. karrar was absolute waste of money and time.
generally speaking, I tend to consider more than only ONE season's performance by imports to give them my stamp of approval.
we have plenty of one-season wonders who excel in one season but fade away in the next (tourre, alvez,...) . I dont count them as worthy.
therefore my list is a very shot one:
armenak petrossian is one of those rare guys who shined in several seasons
Janvario
Castro

note: I think if Edinho (Mes' striker) had stayed the next season, he'd have made an impact. but he chose to go to uae. so screw him.

I guess bringing forieng players is good, but as long as they offer something that we dont have in our home-grown talent.
this means they ought to pass through a quality test of sorts (I dont know how, though).
unfortuntaely we have quite a few useless and sub-par foriegn players who find their way to the IPL and earn millions and millions, only on the back of the AGENTS (who take some hefty commission through such transfers)!

I would say about 50% of all the foreign players in Iran are utter garbage and way below what we have in our own Iranian lads.
another 20% are just on par with our own ppl and perhaps only 30% of them offer something above our average players' levels.

but who's going to stop this? becoz the root of it is in the way the transfers are done with involvement of agents and transfer agencies, media and journalists (on the payroll of these agents. or some are even agents on the side) and even managers and club officials and coaches.

unless we address this disease, I'm afraid we wont get a healthy look for the league on the issue of foreign imports

I have always said there ought to be strict regulations placed on all clubs with regards to squads.
they MUST have at least 5-7 OMID age players within their overall squad.
and IFF shd allow injection of 2-3 more OMID age players shd the club face injuries or exits of their players during a given season

they also shd limit the overall number of foriegn players in squads. I'd say about 4 or at the most, 5.
with not more than 2 or 3 players on the pitch.

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