IRAN - UZBEKISTAN - WCQ (Nov 14th)

[faraz]

The other thing that really bothers me is that we were EASILY beat tactically - I mean the Uzbek manager (whoever the hell he was...) took Mr. "World Class", Carlos Queroz himself, to school today. Their game plan was clear - frustrate our players through hard, physical play and off-the-ball antics, while crowding our aerially-weak keeper on set pieces. And look at that - they got a foul due to the former, and scored from the set piece w/the latter.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to build a simple, effective strategy - we're not playing Barcelona after all. It's f*cking Uzbekistan for god's sake.

@Paradigm - What's the point of paying him so much then? If "his hands are tied", why not bring in joe schmo and have him coach our team for 1/20th of the price? I mean DD said it before - we're paying the man a hefty sum to improve the state of our national team, and by extension can rightly expect to move forward just 1/10th of a centimeter! Is this unreasonable? I'm not asking for the world here...

[Hadi]

This was the best match Iran has played in years, and an improvement over the Korea match and the prior matches to that.
I believe the players really put in 100% and they ran and tried and had the hunger and motivation to win.
Game plan was obviously to attack, speed up the game and win.

However, the sad fact is that our team isnt strong enough and isnt as technically talented as it used to be and we simply lacked creativity and passing.
Our players don't look comfortable with the ball and we have issues with simple stuff like trapping the ball, one twos and short passing. We also clearly lack play makers, players like Karimi, Azizi, Bagheri, Estili or the likes which we always enjoyed having in our team.

Having said that, I think tactically we were good. Our defence pushed up and we didn't play many high balls (except for the last 10 minutes). We tried to exploit the wings and created a few half chances even. It was obvious that the coach wanted attacking football, we barely slowed the game down.

I really think this was our best match in years, yet we lost 1-0, which says something about the state of our football.

The match itself was highly entertaining, with good fighting spirit. I think we were unlucky to lose and end of the day, a draw would have been fair. But I guess we only gave back what we took in the 1st leg.

If we don't qualify second in the group, it wont be because of these 3 points which we lost today, but for the 5 points we have ALREADY lost to Qatar and Lebanon.

[Hadi]

One more point to add:

In world cup qualification, miracles don't happen often

A team that doesn't have enough friendlies, a highly politicized and incompetent FA, no youth system to speak of, senior players who care more about their bellies than football, and etc..WILL NOT QUALIFY AND DOES NOT DESERVE TO QUALIFY to the world cup.

I had very very little hope of qualifications. 6 of our 7 points came from pure luck and when we were inferior to the opposing team. From our very first match, you could tell that this team isn't WC material. and as mentioned, we do not have the merits to be a world class football nation anyways.

But after the korea win, we had a glimmer of (false) hope. We wishfully ignored all shortcomings and daydreamed of Brazil 2016. But By now, I hope our younger fans realize the reality and don't emotionally attach to our football so much because they will be hurt.

TO me, we are 90% out of the world cup and I am just going to enjoy watching the remaining matches and heck, if I see another borefest from TM (like our match vs Qatar), I may not even watch the match.

[Doctor DOOM]

^ I think you're referring to the first half only as the second wasnt anything to write home about.

secondly, we may have mediocre players (highly debatable) and all, but what did us in is the coach's tactics. You definitely cant say CQ wanted an offensive game when the game showed us:
1- starting with khalatbari against a very physical team, in the rain and on wet surface is simply stupid. not only he wont be able to perform at his usual top levels ( as was evident), and he will be muscled out of the game by FRESH legged physical defenders, his pace also wont be of much use. It would have made more sense to use him in the last 25-30 minutes

2- his first sub was an ineffective, out of form (yes, his 3 goals against league's weaker team was a bloody FLUKE and mere accident) little girl whom we shd have expected to get out-muscled by the uzbeks (as did happen)

3- his other sub was to take out an offensive player for a defensive one, when we hadnt even scored a goal in a HOME game

4- keeping the likes of heidari back (therefore isolating dejagah) was borne out of that fear and overly cautious mentality

and a lot of other factors (like in-form and more deserving players left out and not called while we had to suffer the likes of ballerina in the team) that point only in one direction: the coach
yes, we have crummy infrastructure and a bunch of moronic buggers at IFF and ... as the ever-present reason for all sorts of failures. But there are certain issues that you leave to the coach. especially when you spend shit load of money on his arse.
starting line up, subs, arrangement, tactics and game plan, ... are all his department where he failed.

[Paradigm]

which one is more strong and defeatable? fifth south american team or lebanon/qatar?
that shd answer you

Iran has always had issues playing with the Arab teams, or when we had Arab refs in crucial games (Besides today, AC 2004 in China comes to mind with that Lebanese ref who sent off Sattar Zare' ...) In fact I even recall AC 1988 semi final with a similar disallowed goal by Kermani-Moghaddam. Wasn't the Brazil 2010 match also involving an analogous issue when Gholami scored? So I'd take a fourth-placed South American team any day. Besides if we can't beat one of those, we have no business being in the World Cup to start with.

Here's something to cheer you up, specially the last one.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

This was the best match Iran has played in years, and an improvement over the Korea match and the prior matches to that.
I believe the players really put in 100% and they ran and tried and had the hunger and motivation to win.
Game plan was obviously to attack, speed up the game and win.

However, the sad fact is that our team isnt strong enough and isnt as technically talented as it used to be and we simply lacked creativity and passing.
Our players don't look comfortable with the ball and we have issues with simple stuff like trapping the ball, one twos and short passing. We also clearly lack play makers, players like Karimi, Azizi, Bagheri, Estili or the likes which we always enjoyed having in our team.

Having said that, I think tactically we were good. Our defence pushed up and we didn't play many high balls (except for the last 10 minutes). We tried to exploit the wings and created a few half chances even. It was obvious that the coach wanted attacking football, we barely slowed the game down.

I really think this was our best match in years, yet we lost 1-0, which says something about the state of our football.

The match itself was highly entertaining, with good fighting spirit. I think we were unlucky to lose and end of the day, a draw would have been fair. But I guess we only gave back what we took in the 1st leg.

If we don't qualify second in the group, it wont be because of these 3 points which we lost today, but for the 5 points we have ALREADY lost to Qatar and Lebanon.

exactly my thoughts.

[Essi]

Here are the teams from South America

Argentina 9 6 2 1 20 7 20
Ecuador 9 5 2 2 12 9 17
Colombia 8 5 1 2 14 6 16
Venezuela 9 3 3 3 8 9 12
Uruguay 9 3 3 3 16 18 12
Chile 9 4 0 5 14 18 12
Bolivia 9 2 2 5 12 14 8
Peru 9 2 2 5 10 15 8
Paraguay

[Hadi]

Doctor jan, no matter what you are never fully satisfied with the coaching staff.

For me, the performance yesterday was the peak of Iran's national team. The players ran well, the passing was more crisp than usual, players seemed focused, hungry and motivated than normal, and we played at home and we had the likes of Gucci and Dejagah who were a head and shoulder above IPL players.


A coach cant fix a keeper who is constantly praying under his lips and is as nervous as a trapped mouse all the time.
The coach cant fix the fact that our right back (Heydari) is a Sunday league player at best, and we probably dont have a better replacement for him.
Our coach cant fix the fact that our players cant pass and control the ball as well as Uzbeks or Koreans can.

The main job of a national team coach for me is psychological work. He needs to get the players, the media and the fans in the right mood and mode for an important match. he needs to unite everyone and make sure everyone plays their best.
Tactically, I do not expect much from any NT coach. For me, coach tactics only makes sense in league football, not in a NT. Sure a good coach knows how to play against certain opponents or when/how to make use of subs etc but I think our coach did well in that aspect.

[Doctor DOOM]

Doctor jan, no matter what you are never fully satisfied with the coaching staff.

For me, the performance yesterday was the peak of Iran's national team. The players ran well, the passing was more crisp than usual, players seemed focused, hungry and motivated than normal, and we played at home and we had the likes of Gucci and Dejagah who were a head and shoulder above IPL players.


A coach cant fix a keeper who is constantly praying under his lips and is as nervous as a trapped mouse all the time.
The coach cant fix the fact that our right back (Heydari) is a Sunday league player at best, and we probably dont have a better replacement for him.
Our coach cant fix the fact that our players cant pass and control the ball as well as Uzbeks or Koreans can.

The main job of a national team coach for me is psychological work. He needs to get the players, the media and the fans in the right mood and mode for an important match. he needs to unite everyone and make sure everyone plays their best.
Tactically, I do not expect much from any NT coach. For me, coach tactics only makes sense in league football, not in a NT. Sure a good coach knows how to play against certain opponents or when/how to make use of subs etc but I think our coach did well in that aspect.

mate, multiple issues here that I'll try to address separately.

1- were the players motivated and hungry and ..? absolutely. I agree totally with you.
I didnt see any of the players showing lack of drive or desire to get the job done. That has never been my issue with this game if you read my post again.
The problem was the COACH's approach to the game and how he handled it DURING the game.

2- I also agree the coach cannot transform a keeper who has shown weak on crosses for many years now. I'm not asking CQ to transform rahmati.
I'm asking CQ to do the DUTY OF A COACH who sees such problems: try a different tact or different player.
it is THIS DUTY that he's failed in.
For months we've been talking about rahmati's weakness. even when he's had good games (meaning he's blocked shots and one on ones and ... . Although he was always good in these anyway), he's show suspect on balls coming from flanks.

different tact: now, a coach can either ask his defenders to pull the line away from the keeper as far as possible (on set pieces. not possible on corners) or choose taller defenders and midfielders who will head the ball away before it reaches the keeper.
different player: Or, he can try someone else who IS good in crosses and at least shows decent form in other areas. and we DO have such a keeper: rahman ahmadi, who's been in pretty good form for the past year and half. But all he got was 45 minutes vs. tajiks and nothing else!


3- Heidari isnt a bad defender. he did well defending his mark and running along the flank and ... . in fact I cant remember him making a mistake at all.
the problem was the COACH kept him at bay and it seems out of fear, he didnt allow heidari to surge forward and join dejagah in attacks (which led to isolation of dejagah and ... . it's all in the original post)
so if you think heidari was weak (which he was certainly not), it is more the DUTIES asked of him than how he actually played



4- I also agree that ONE of a coach's jobs is psychological handling of the team.
But besides that, I disagree that tactics and strategy is out of his hands. in fact THIS IS THE AREA that separates expensive coaches from inexpensive ones.
besides, another major determinant is a coach's LINE UP SELECTION that makes or breaks a game for a team.
it is here and in these areas that CQ has failed

[Doctor DOOM]

^ and I said failed not because he is a bad coach. but because his characteristics and approach to the game does not MATCH our needs and characteristics.

he and defensive minded coaches like him are more suited for smaller teams who arent as ambitious, who dont want too great things, who despite their weaknesses and smallness want to make a splash once in a while and that's it. more suited to be bahrain's, jordan's or qatar's coach.

but we are an ambitious nation in footall and have a history of greatness (at least in our region), we want to reach the WC and we claim to be among asia's top 4 or 5, and .... . besides our footballing nature doesnt suit his and his kind's philosophy.

IFF's approach also is totally wrong.
merely a "big, famous" name is not enough. you've got to see which coach SUITS our football and what he can & cant deliver.


as for the talk of firing him or not, at this point, I dont really think it makes a jot of difference if we keep him or fire him. given the schedule of the remaining games of iran, uzbeks and koreans, also the points garnered by these teams so far and other similar factors makes it difficult to think if we bring in another coach, he'd have a greater chance at turning things around.
Or I may be mistaken. I dont know, but I'm not as hopeful as I was at this stage 4 years back (after Daei's fiasco in azadi).

who knows ... . maybe if the uzbeks drop points in their next game, then I'd be more hopeful (if we beat the lebanese handsomely. and not just b y a solitary goal).
But we still have to travel to AFC's FIFA's new favorite team and all cards are stacked against us even BEFORE we start the game (very different from last edition's north korea).
Not to mention CQ's ultra defensive strategies and line ups have created more trouble for us in area of number of goals scored.
so even if we beat both lebanon and qatar by 1-0, we're still not out of t water!!

THIS is why I say defensive football for WCQ's is suicidal and foolish.
Look at japan. They played aggressively from the beginning, gathering points as EARLY as possible to avoid such pickles like ours. That is how we shd approach qualifiers. Not the cautious, overtly defensive approach of a marathon. This may not be a sprint. but it surely aint no marathon either.

[KeonKish]

This was the best match Iran has played in years, and an improvement over the Korea match and the prior matches to that.
I believe the players really put in 100% and they ran and tried and had the hunger and motivation to win.
Game plan was obviously to attack, speed up the game and win.

However, the sad fact is that our team isnt strong enough and isnt as technically talented as it used to be and we simply lacked creativity and passing.
Our players don't look comfortable with the ball and we have issues with simple stuff like trapping the ball, one twos and short passing. We also clearly lack play makers, players like Karimi, Azizi, Bagheri, Estili or the likes which we always enjoyed having in our team.

Having said that, I think tactically we were good. Our defence pushed up and we didn't play many high balls (except for the last 10 minutes). We tried to exploit the wings and created a few half chances even. It was obvious that the coach wanted attacking football, we barely slowed the game down.

I really think this was our best match in years, yet we lost 1-0, which says something about the state of our football.

The match itself was highly entertaining, with good fighting spirit. I think we were unlucky to lose and end of the day, a draw would have been fair. But I guess we only gave back what we took in the 1st leg.

If we don't qualify second in the group, it wont be because of these 3 points which we lost today, but for the 5 points we have ALREADY lost to Qatar and Lebanon.

I really agree... Our team is REALLY hurting in the playmaker position, I think our defense is pretty decent... our DM's are decent... but we need some stronger players.... just look at how hard and strong uzbek players and even tajik players played.. they could knock many of our guys over so easily.....
we also lack ONE important thing.... a REAL leader. Nekounam is not good enough to be a leader anymore... we need somebody who can really change the pace of a game, and dictate its flow.

[KeonKish]

I also wanted to add how people here always say ando isnt good at passing and attacking etc, when our ruled out goal came from his attacking run and pass.
Unfortunately I could tell he was still slightly injured as he didnt seem to be challenging as much.

[maij]

The other thing that really bothers me is that we were EASILY beat tactically - I mean the Uzbek manager (whoever the hell he was...) took Mr. "World Class", Carlos Queroz himself, to school today. Their game plan was clear - frustrate our players through hard, physical play and off-the-ball antics, while crowding our aerially-weak keeper on set pieces. And look at that - they got a foul due to the former, and scored from the set piece w/the latter.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to build a simple, effective strategy - we're not playing Barcelona after all. It's f*cking Uzbekistan for god's sake.

@Paradigm - What's the point of paying him so much then? If "his hands are tied", why not bring in joe schmo and have him coach our team for 1/20th of the price? I mean DD said it before - we're paying the man a hefty sum to improve the state of our national team, and by extension can rightly expect to move forward just 1/10th of a centimeter! Is this unreasonable? I'm not asking for the world here...

It is not a big secret that Carlos Queiroz is a coach with pedigree, all one has to do is have a quick look at his CV to know what type of a coach we are dealing with. But , what good is Queiroz or even Wenger , Mourinho and who ever you like to name , if these world class coaches DO NOT DELIVER ? . I really fail to understand these mentalities who are raving about having Queiroz as our coach while all we get as fans are disappointments , stress , heart aches and if this and if that !!!

Tactically , Queiroz has been beaten by three much lessor known coaches in this group. Paulo Autuori of Qatar , read him like open hands , so did Theo Bucker of Lebanon in Beirut and now young Kasimov , who is probably as old as Queiroz's son. The Uzbek coach has really given our Portuguese world class coach , a fundamental lesson or two on how to win against all the odds.
Frankly speaking , apart from the first 15-20 minutes when Team Melli excelled beyond my wildest imagination , the rest of the game was the usual Team Melli, haphazard, hail Mary and the good old cross from the flanks and say your prayers stuff. Now, if people find this to be the best match TM ever played or something like that , then Nooshiy joonishoon. If it is their ceiling of expectation , then good for them, but to me this was a failure, to the history and record books it was a defeat. It is regretable that FIFA does not reward points for "Bad Luck"!

Then we have the customary "Oh, no.... don't blame the coach , the whole country is screwed up " squad coming up with their never ending excuses, trying to side with a guy whose pocket is full of dollars, on the account of the feeling of the masses.

Don't get me wrong , I like Carlos Queiroz. His mere presence in Iran as the head coach of the National Team is in itself a bounus, but that shall not distract me from the fact that he is simply not up to it. Not with these boys , anyway.


Note: I found this quote/comment on CQ's in his capacity as coach of Portugal during the WC 2010 and thought of sharing it.

"Having succeeded Luiz Felipe Scolari after Euro 2008, this will be Queiroz's first spell at the World Cup finals, having failed to lead Portugal to either Euro 1992 or the 1994 World Cup. "

What a fine act ?

[Doctor DOOM]

Group A

UZBEKISTAN	5	2	2	1	5	4	1	8
KOREA REPUBLIC	4	2	1	1	9	4	5	7
I.R. IRAN	5	2	1	2	2	2	0	7
QATAR	5	2	1	2	3	5	-2	7
LEBANON	5	1	1	3	2	6	-4	4

given the above table and especially the number of goals scored by uzbeks, if we are to make a campaign out of this, we know we MUST score goals and lots of them.
Hadi and others have brought up a very valid point which is the lack of a true playmaker in the team. Very true. when the team lacks creativity going forward, its strikers will struggle to be in scoring positions and will be taken out of the game. or they'd be forced to come deep to recieve balls ... which means nobody up there to score.
but my question to you all is Iran lacks playmakers and creative mids? is there such a shortage of creative players that we are forced to rely on mediocre & inconsistent players like mohamad nouri (I know he did well. but after so many poor games. that makes him unreliable)?
hell, we did have Milad Nouri, who's been doing well in Saba (besides scoring goals, which is a bonus) and he also showed great vision in the tajikistan game. Why not him?
and there are more players. There is bakhtiar Rahmani who's shownhe is quite the reliable playmaker for at least 2 seasons.

so if we dont use the right elements when they ARE available to us is purely the COACH's fault.


issue two:
But elements is one thing. the other thing is the game plan.
is there any sane and mature person here who thinks in the remaining games a defensive football will get us there? anyone?
does anyone doubt that ONLY an offensive approach will be able to provide a glimmer of hope for us (that is IF we are lucky enough to see uzbeks or koreans lose points in their games and that is a BIG if)?

should we continue to play with TWO def-mids, therefore wasting a spot that shd have gone to an offensive, creative mid in the team?
anyone can claim having more DM's means preventing goals concession? didnt we bring in P Nouri, along with nekounam yesterday, or had ando-neku couple when we get scored on in other games? I doubt anyone can deny this.
But I can strongly say if in those very games, we had a more creative player instead of that extra DM, chances of our socring goals would have doubled.


issue three:
player selection. no matter what we plan or want or need. if we dont get the right elements there, we wont get it.
more specifically, if we keep relying on names, we're going to continue the same rut. most glaring of all is use of ansarifard even for a second. This was proven to be a wasteful and useless option in past games. but we still see CQ waste a sub on him. why? based on what evidence?
(or was it omid namazi's decision to use him? coz that just proves how utterly useless and ineffective this chap is. I didnt have much of a respect for him simply because he hasnt done jack shit in football to justify becoming TM coach. but if it was his decision and subs, then I say before CQ, he shd be kicked out of TM.)


this mis-trust of new faces must go. some say "int'l experience"? I say bullshit.
if int'l experience and playing at europe's top leagues and having shitload of caps at TM means staying rooted to the ground and not knowing to follow your mark or be in front of him or ... , then I say screw int'l exprience. we might as well use U-15 players who can actually run.
so this silly excuse of "X isnt int'lly experienced" is totally foolish as our experienced players make far worse and much more mistakes than out newcomers and supposedly inexperienced lads



***********************

we are in a major soup!!!

26-03-2013 TBC	KOREA REPUBLIC	-	QATAR
-
26-03-2013 TBC	UZBEKISTAN	-	LEBANON
-
04-06-2013 TBC	LEBANON	-	KOREA REPUBLIC
-
04-06-2013 TBC	QATAR	-	I.R. IRAN
-
11-06-2013 TBC	I.R. IRAN	-	LEBANON
-
11-06-2013 TBC	KOREA REPUBLIC	-	UZBEKISTAN
-
18-06-2013 TBC	UZBEKISTAN	-	QATAR
-
18-06-2013 TBC	KOREA REPUBLIC	-	I.R. IRAN

1- it's too much of a wishful thinking to dream about lebanon of all teams giving a hard time to uzbeks in tashkent. that game is pretty much in the bag for the uzbeks barring some freak accident.


that leaves the next matchday (we have off) in something like uzbeks 11 pts, korea 10 pts (they raped qataris in qatar. what do you think they'll do to them at home?) and iran at 7


2- next MatchDay.
uzbeks dont have a game and we will have to wait for them to slip up and lose points, while we still struggle.
I doubt lebanon will get anything out of korea as koreans know how to get goals (unlike us) even if the opponent parks the bus.
so while uzbeks are off, we still have a tough game in qatar who will be on par with us and see their chance for the play off at least. given the AFC's and FIFA's intention, we'd be fools if we think the ref would be impartial.

even if we somehow win, we'll be 10, uzbeks at 11 and korea at 13



3- penultimate matchday
this is the MD that really matters to us. if korea beats uzbeks and if we win lebanon at home, then, we MAY (not out of the water yet) have a chance

korea 16 (qualifies), Iran 13, uzbeks 11

but if korea and uzbeks draw, and even if we win, we'll be in big trouble and almost out of direct contention as uzbeks have their home game against a team they've already beatn away, while we have to travel to korea!

korea 14, iran 13, uzbeks, 12,


4- final MD:
Uzbeks have the easiest work as they meet qatar AT HOME who are also demoralized (already eliminated). but here is the ONLY lght in the tunnel for us that somehow we get lucky and qatar somehow gets a draw ... although not very much likely as they lost in qatar already

while we have to travel to Korea which is NEVER, EVER easy for us and our best results have been draws. Thus we're faced with a WIN-OR-DIE while uzbeks walts into the game pretty happy.



so in short, we are wishing for TWO slip-ups in THREE games by uzbeks.
how likely and what are the chances of that?

[zzgloo]

1-Other than uzbaks' goal....TM was a little better than they were.
2-Our central defense,lacks, tall,physical , first touch ability defender.,specialy in the air.
3-Our midfield ,lacked speed, and distrebution skills....as Dejagah,a forward himself, had to cross the ball for the forwards,if any.
4-The game plan, was very conservative...and that caused, low number of attackers,and almost no, attacking midfilders.
....................................
Conclusion:
Dejagah,and ghoochaninejad, were just a gifts from outside.,and do not count when we want to judge our football in general....TM lacks enough skilled players, specialy for the central defense.,and distrebuting speedy midfielders...

and, CQ is a good man, and organized manager...but,too conservative,and short on attacking football.