what is constructive .... ?

[ARYA]

And who said otherwise? 1. To muddy waters and mirepresent by taking quotes out of context is mischief making. As the Persian saying goes 'fishing in muddy waters' is what is happening here, and as an Iranian you should understand the meaning behind the quote. Since when have I ever said having an opinion is mischief making? 2. But you can misquote me anytime if it suits your purpose.

1. I've seen nothing of the sort from DD. Just well thought out arguments, to which Martin and toos have had well thought out replies.

2. What purpose would I have as an impartial third party by misquoting you? Just curious.

[186forever]

A couple of days ago, I was just daydreaming about football and our Team Melli and I began to realize this.
It is too late now. Sure we can criticize and of course these boards are here for discussions. But overall, it is too late now. We might have a couple of friendlies in march or so and then that s it. Here comes the worldcup.
Whether we like our Coach, Formation, Left Flank, Style of play, Tactics, and so on..... We all should just pray for our Team Melli to play at least near their potential. At the end, mo matter how much we might hate any of those factors that I mentioned, we all will be sitting in front of our TVs, with sweaty arms, high heartbeat, eyes glued to TV and a heard full of hope and stress at the same time. From my part, all I can say is, dige hamine ke hast. Many of us wanted to see how team melli performs in the LG cup and see how we play against a decent team like Paraguay. But we failed to even reach them in the finals. We played very poorly in our 1st game, but bounced back in our 2nd game (performing only near to our potential) and the result should not be a surprise. Branco said himself, friendlies are different from games that are deciding games. Team Melli got the 1st result and that was to make it to the Worldcup. Now let's see how we perform in the worldcup when we need results. So from now on, it is us and our God up there

[Doctor DOOM]

pooya jan,
1- this "constructive criticism" has been used in many other issues, on many other occasions as well.
so this is to know what are the guidelines for it.
in general, and not only pertaining to TM's horrible present form.

2- there is a saying : "har ja ke jeloye zarar ro begiri, sood kardi"
or better late than never.

the last year's trned , with continual terrible performance followed by another horrible one, tells us something.
the team is either NOT responding to branko's tactics, or branko's tactics are not cutting it anymore.
and if this last year is any indication, we must be extremely worried about 7 months later.

those sayings are there for occasions like this.

[186forever]

pooya jan,
1- this "constructive criticism" has been used in many other issues, on many other occasions as well.
so this is to know what are the guidelines for it.
in general, and not only pertaining to TM's horrible present form.
2- there is a saying : "har ja ke jeloye zarar ro begiri, sood kardi"
or better late than never.
the last year's trned , with continual terrible performance followed by another horrible one, tells us something.
the team is either NOT responding to branko's tactics, or branko's tactics are not cutting it anymore.
and if this last year is any indication, we must be extremely worried about 7 months later.
those sayings are there for occasions like this.

I understand
The question is not everyone really believes that team melli is regressing. Even I don't know. Iran has been so inconsistant over the years that we never know. Maybe they will come out and perform up to their potentials in the WC. That s all I m hoping for. I understand your point, but I just don't think it will make a difference. Based on obvserving team melli over the last few games, YES, we have regressed, but u never know.
Who knew that Team Melli 98 with all the problems and coach changes after Viera in such short amount of time, that they will come out and perform like they did against yugoslavia?
I don t know what to say, I just have to hope and wish from now on. Hope that we play well in the worldcup.

[Karshenas]

Didn't have time to read through the entire thread so sorry if the point has already been made.

Anyway, question was "What's constructive criticism". Well I'll tell you what it ISN'T and hopefully that'll explain to you what it IS. I'll be short and blunt the following statements ARE NOT constructive criticism, and are pure garbage:

-"Guys admit it, we just suck"
-"Guys we're worst than 1998, I sure hope to god Ahmadinejad pulls us out of the WC becaues we're going to be an embarrasment".
-"Guys who are we kidding outselves? We got three benchwarmers in Germany and we think we're #1 in Asia, frankly we're behind KSA, Korea, and Japan"
-"Guys take a look at South Korea's latest result, these guys are light years ahead of us"
-"Guys it's hopeless as long as we have Branko TM won't do shit"
-"Name me one positive thing Branko has done for TM".


I won't go through the cycle of answering each and every of the above statements. When it's all said and done, those who UNDERSTAND and WHO ARE IN THE FREAKIN POSITION to have a say in the matter UNIVERSALLY agree that Branko is the man for the job (e.g. TM's best players + IFF), end of story.

Now many will take the above statement as Branko = GOD, which is obviously not true. Noone claims Branko is God, but given the current situation, Branko's resume, and huge risk invovled in a coach change at this point in time, Branko IS the man for the job.

[Doctor DOOM]

hehehe ... dear karshenas,
I think it is a good idea to read the original post, once more.

I dont think everyone trivialize TM's weaknesses and bad form with "we suck" kind of statments.
the Q is valid, as many rise up in arms to defend branko or X or Y, as soon as someone mentions a defect about the team !!!

intor ke nemisheh !
this is NOT dialogue.
there ARE weaknesses and defects in the team.
why shd ppl suddenly get heat up over any fan bringing up these issues and talking about them?

so my suggestion to you is, read the first post again, and if you can answer, we all would appreciate it.

[maij]

I think it is a valid question Peyman Jan.

I cannot claim to have an accurate answer, but the issue I take with your criticism, is that the majority of your topics, points, key issues and so forth is negatively pointed against Branko. There is an element of injustice and unfairness in it.

That can not be true nor constructive, because it is becoming an obsession or as if there is a personal vendetta. I certainly hope that there is no such thing , but it certainly looks like it!.

The other point about constructive criticism , is the magnitude or quantity of such critique. Simply, one can not claim to make a constructive criticism, if he repeatedly points out to imaginary shortfalls or personal preferences.

[Doctor DOOM]

maji jan,
I guess it goes back to personal priorities here.


before going googaah over the few positive moments , I'd rather talk about our weaknesses so maybe somehow , through some miracle all this discussion would reach the right ears.
or at least by discussing these , maybe I'll get to see WHY they occur so often and continuously.

so I dont think the words "unfair" or "injustice" are valid here.

MY priorities are to see our team find solutions for its many defects.
THAT , to me is far more important than saying good job on keeping kaabi as right back, or VH back to striker role.

it IS a matter of personal preference.

with the games looming closer and closer, I'd rather see the team iron out all its troublesome spots , than anything else.

is it "unfair" to ask why our left back problem hasnt been solved in all these years?

is it "injustice" to ask why our left flank is so dead that the right side players ought to wear a black band around their arms in mourning for the left side?

is it "unfair" to ask why in 5 years mirza's mistakes repeat with every game he plays?

is it "injustice" to enquire about mirza's motivation to improve and why we still dont have anyone in mind as his alternative?

na digeh, bro.
injoori nemisheh.
if MY asking these things are unfair, then what would you call what many friends say to anyone who asks questions?

and leave that. it's not important.
what would you call persisting of many defects in the team for more than a year , and some years ?
shall I propose:
catastrophic?
appalling?
disasterous?
Mind-boggling?
extremely disturbing?
......... .
you take your pick, bro.

======================

as for the magnitude and frequency:

1- frequency:
the frequency of criticism IS dictated by the frequency of occurence of mistakes and amount of deficiencies observed in the team.
I dont think ppl suddenly get up one morning and criticise spain's forward line for thrashing slovakia 5-0.
do they ?

2- magnitude:
many factors to consider;
a- the more the same defects and weaknessea are obsserved, the more tha criticism will gather strength.
b- the closer we get to the WC , the more intense it'll become.


and THIS is unfair to expect ppl to not say a word and keep quiet at the face of repeating deficiencies in the team some of which have persisted for years !

am I not right ?

[maij]

Well.....like you said ...it is about personal preference.

Thi is why it is difficult to come up with a reasonable resolution.