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**Hassani** · 12-05-2005, 09:04 AM

I agree with you to the fullest.
We have to play for a win against the second best team in the group and should not be afraid of losing..

And I also agree that Branko may not be the man for the job. But then again he pulled of a good job against S-Korea. But also remember that the S-Korea game was a do or die game and the game against the second best team in the group may just look like a hard game that he will play more careful.

But the point is, I dont think Branko has what it takes for us to advance from the first stage. As much as i like to think that, I´m afraid it wont happen...
Unless as you said, we get lucky and beat the second best team, then we are r 90% thruw...

**Hassani** · 12-05-2005, 09:06 AM

And some friendlys against these teams you mentioned would be great.. But with the cheap as IFF I guess we will have to do with teams like macedonia and etc...

**Doctor DOOM** · 12-05-2005, 11:11 AM

very well put, zz jan.
all this is to assume we are in pool C, as everyone seems to talk about.

if I am not mistaken , usually the grouo games start with :
A-D
B-C

so our most fateful and crucial game is going to be our FIRST game , against a very strong ( most probably European) team !
going thru your list, the worst draw would be getting czek rep, england, portugal or sweden.

personally, I'd hate to meet these guys.
leaving mexico, ukraine, croatia, which on a good day, if we get lucky enough, we can get something out of them.
( btw, I doubt switzerland would be in pool B )

but, we must not forget that even in pool D we have a few tough teams that may prove even more difficult than some poll B teams !

=====

now to our TM.

assuming this game is going to be our very first game, we may yet surprise the B team , if we are on top of our game.
no matter what teams "hear" and "see" about us, it is never the same as "playing" against us on the pitch.
so we must not forget the surprise factor.
( remember yugo game ? )

but to be able to surprise a pool B team, we must be totally tuned up, all cylinders chugging, show our best teamwork and tactics, and be beyond our best in both defense and OFFENSE ( if we want that single point, or even the 3 ).

for this to happen, isnt it necessary to have as many games against TOP sides as possible to reveal our weaknesses and shortcomings, so we have time to repair them?

for this to happen, shdnt we test our offense against such TOP teams to see how they would get around them?

basically, I am asking, shdnt we jump on ANY opportunity to have a test match to rectify our team's defects?

whwy did x or y , decline the offers to have friendly games during Dec?
in whose benefit was it? the team's or aghayan's comfort and relaxation?

THIS is exactly what I mean by saying many of us have got all the WRONG priorities here !
the team is forgotten, and we are running after some side issues !!

----------

and on matters of "risk taking and boldness" ?

need I say more ?
we all know where we ( TM ) stand on such matters !!

**Doctor DOOM** · 12-06-2005, 11:36 AM

well, chances for branko's success is not bad at all !!

if we get to draw two teams and lose one, we may yet advance !!

yes, if we lose by less goals to the top team, and the rest draw each other, then we would advance !

I am sure branko would have drawn up his plans based on this strategy.
no wonder he defended all those miserable performances .

I never thought of this scenario.
I was under the impression that we need 5 points to be comparatively safe, or at least 4 points to have a chance.

now, 3 , and even 2 points prove to be enough !!

so the past one and half year of dismal TM games DID have a purpose and goal, afterall.

and hey, branko isnt all that incapable that we think him to be !
he IS planned.
he IS very clever.

quite monumental, I must say.

viva branko , the omniscient and Nostra-dumb-a$s
he must have known about it all along !!
aaaaahh clever fella.

**zzgloo** · 12-06-2005, 12:20 PM

DD jan ,I just found out that I was mistakeing, and Iran will be on pot 4 and not 3, although,it does not make much difference.....
so, since A plays D and then B plays C on the first game...therefore., our first opponent will be one of these guys...
Germany...England...Spain...Mexico....France....Ar gentina....Italy.....Brazil....
Out of these guys, I believe we have better chances against....
Spain.....Mexico....Italy....
The Pot C, is the pot I think we need to zero in more than any one els, as I said in my earlier post.....
Ukrain.....holland...Switzerland...Portugal....Swe den.....Czc rep....Poland.....Coretia
Again ,out of these guys, we may have better chances against......
Poland.....Switzerland....Sweden
and on pot B......we could either get lucky or unlucky......we could get either togo and australia,,,,or...paraguay and Ecuador.....
my wish list, would be in a group with least number of Europeans....perhaps, a latin pot A team, and montenegro,as European, and maybe togo.......
Is that too much to ask ?

......
anyway.......One thing positive I must say about Branko, and that is his system is some how, that his teams will be never blown out....and he keeps it close........
If we could get one point from the C pot team....and 3 points out of B pot team,,,we will be in good shape.........therefore.....I wished, we did not have to play the A pot team in our first game,since it will be very important game for them, rather than being thier last game,that might be irrelevent.....
So, I believe, we should have a East European ( Branko's )..System in that game........hopeing to get one point.....and if we do that....the chances will be very good for secound round.

**faraz** · 12-06-2005, 12:23 PM

ZZ jan - i couldn't agree more. It's that European team that we need to focus on, but we also shouldn't forget about the POT 2 teams either.

Now, based on the seedings, and with a bit of luck, I think it could be quite possible for Iran to head into the second round.

The key thing should be to TAKE THE GAME TO OUR OPPONENTS - the more we wait, the more chance that they'll score on us. I personally believe scoring early (first 5, 10, 15 minutes) will be a major boost, especially because the other team will neither expect it, nor quite be in the game yet. With big teams, you MUST hit them early - being patient and sitting back will not help against the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Italy, and England who will undoubtedly find holes in the defence.

Suprising the teams early (especially as teams tend to be relaxed very early in the game) is necessary for Iran's success. Inflicting some sort of fear or anxiety never hurt either - a couple of clear cut chances, and Roberto Carlos or Cafu may think twice about making their long runs up the field.

Taking the game to our opponents and playing without fear are KEY.

However, this is not a perfect world and its much much easier said than done

**Doctor DOOM** · 12-06-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by faraz

The key thing should be to TAKE THE GAME TO OUR OPPONENTS - the more we wait, the more chance that they'll score on us. I personally believe scoring early (first 5, 10, 15 minutes) will be a major boost,

I have highlighted areas of great importance ..... and ....ahem .... shall we say "contention" ??

two major issues we must ponder on.
and based on TM's trend and performances .....
for example a look at how "we took the game to our opponents" such as bahrain and n korea, .... is any indication of how we would do so against teams 10 times tougher and stronger.
as for scoring ... well our record speaks volumes, in terms of our potency and incisiveness !!!

I leave it up to all those who want the best for the team to decide and contemplate.

===============
zz jan, "hoping" to get something is one thing.
actually SHOWING we could do it is another.

also hoping for 2-3 draws may be fine.
as long as we meet strikers in caliber of bahrain and n korea !

anything at the level of japan, we're in trouble !!

**Darvish11** · 12-06-2005, 03:39 PM

I think we need to play aggressive because the top teams all expect a pot 4 team to just go for a draw. If we do that, play ultra defensive, we have no chance. We have to suprise them buy attacking.
Sorry, this is pretty much what faraz said, i didnt read his post...

**faraz** · 12-06-2005, 03:45 PM

DD jan - being the team that we were against NK and Bahrain, we were in a position to hold possession, calm things down, make sure they didn't have any serious counter attacks, and then move forward. North Korea played with NINE men in and around the box! We're all also familiar with Bahrain's antics - the thing is, the situations did NOT allow us to play the football you and so many others wished to see. However, we TOOK the game to Germany right from the beginning, and they had NO clue how to deal with it.

They are 2 very important concepts - scoring early, and NOT sitting back hoping for a draw.

I can almost gaurantee that against better teams, we will see this sort of play from Iran, especially as we will be the underdogs, opening up space for many of our players.

I just hope that Branko can get out of this defensive mentality, because like it or not, it DOES exist, and it WILL be the downfall of our team in the WC.

**ARYA** · 12-06-2005, 05:43 PM

We all know that no matter what teams we are pooled against that all three of our opponents, even the weakest one will not fear us and will come at us all guns a blazing. Now if we decide to go into a shell, sit back and defend through out the game hoping for a draw we will surely loose because as we know, defending is not our best suite.

I do agree with faraz, we have to score and we have to score early specially against the seeded team and the team from pot C, but what's more, we can not afford to sit back and defend once we have scored. I mean how many times have we seen Brazil get scored on first in a game only to come back and score two to three unanswered goals of their own. No defense will ever be ample against any of the seeded teams, nor would it be against any of the teams from pot C, because these teams are sure to score whether you put 5 or 11 players in front of your own goal. For example England is quite capable of scoring against Argentina and visa versa, so what makes us think that we can stop them from scoring on us? We have to put pressure on our opponents so not to allow them to get comfortable in our half of the field and set up camp in front of our 18. We have to also assume that we are going to get scored on at least 1 goal in each game, therefore, we must start attacking early in order to make up this deficit as quickly as possible and hopefully even add to our own goal tally. A good mentality will be to start each game under the assumption that we are down by a goal.

We are a talented team and man for man with a couple of exceptions we should be able to hold our own against any opponent, therefore, what it all boils down to, is a proper game plan, tactics, and formation, a couple of new players here and there wouldn't hurt either.

One of the most important things for our team is, we have to get better at our finishing. With teams such as Brazil, England, Germany, France, Argentina etc. we will not get as many opportunities to score as we have been so far with all our other opponents. We simply cannot afford to miss so many good opportunities as we have been in recent games. As we all know, if you don’t make these opportunities count, we will end up getting scored on.

Furthermore we cannot loose sight of our weaker opponents, we just cannot assume that the 3 points are in the bag.

I’m praying for TM. I’m also praying that Branko becomes clairvoyant, perhaps than we can reach the group of 16.

**Doctor DOOM** · 12-06-2005, 08:15 PM

faraz jan, you saw possession of football.
I saw passing the ball in our own half or on the mid-line, when the opponents never really posed much danger, let alone challenge for the ball to attack all that much.

you saw "calm things down".
I saw a slow, no-game plan team that had absolutely NO IDEA how to break the defense line of a bunch of amateur, weak and third rate asian team !!
( how on earth we talk about taking the game to a team like spain or swededn, is beyond me !!!! )

the defense that looked fragile against teams like bahrain, japan's B team and korea's B/C team is supposed to hold against brazil, england, holland?

the problem here is we see n korea and bahrain, and think the WC teams are going to be like them ... so much that these teams have become our measuring sticks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we must remember, with better team, their pressure on our team ( and defense ) is going to be unbearable.

we better face it right now ( better now than too late ).
with what the team has shown in terms of tactics and strategies, they are going to have a world of trouble in defense against top strikers, and a mountainous task in offense to go past world class defenders.

==============

as arya jan said ( and faraz said earlier ), we must make sure we can HIT at these teams with whatever we got, to even stand a chance to get something out of the game.

meaning, the team has to be in tip-top shape offensively.

meaning the team shd have been practicing and fine-tuning its attack.

meaning the team shd have applied all its attack strategies in whatever games its had .... especially since we've had third rate and seocnd rate teams in friendlies, like panama, azerbaijan, macedonia, ...

meaning our strike line ups shd have shown many variations in its attack strategies and line ups and subs.

meaning .................

all of which means with the frightened , gutless performances of team borne out of gutless attitude of its coach, the team is simply INCAPABLE of producing the required.

proof of which is its inability to score on third rate asian defenders of n korea or bahrain.
how on earth do you ppl think they're going to score against world's best ?

what the hell is the measuring stick?
we proved inable to score against macedonia's B TEAM, for god's sake.
I repeat: macedonia ( third rate euro team ) B freaking team !!
IN AZADI !!
in front of iranian supporters !!

we gotta face the world's best AWAY from our sohrab booghi's and .... !!

**faraz** · 12-07-2005, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by Doctor DOOM

what the hell is the measuring stick?
we proved inable to score against macedonia's B TEAM, for god's sake.
I repeat: macedonia ( third rate euro team ) B freaking team !!
IN AZADI !!
in front of iranian supporters !!

Now you're talking Peyman Jan. This was a tragedy. Many factors were responsible for that loss; undoubtedly, Branko was one of them. Motivation was definitely another, but nontheless, the fact that we struggled to score and make use of our numerous chances was/is extremely troubling.

I like the way Arya put it - we need to work on FINISHING. That was the real lacking element in our game against Macedonia, as well as our holes in defence. For a "defensive team", we sure don't seem to have a good grip of tightening at the back! Either way (again as Arya said), there will NOT be an array of chances against the likes of Brazil or England or any of the other first seeded teams, so if we get the chance, we have to make it.

It has been our downfall in the past (Yugoslavia, Ireland), and hopefully won't be our downfall in the future.

So basically, to sum up the last couple of posts, in terms of so-called "strategies", ideally, i'd like to see:

a) Clinical finishing
b) Early scares (injecting fear) or better yet, early goals
c) Playing a more offensively oriented game
d) Keeping defenders closer to each other, so as to decrease the space available to the opponent's strikers

I am sure Branko and CO. have much more in-depth analysis of such game plans, but I don't know what approach he will choose when we face the major powerhouse of the group.

I hope and pray it is a fearless one (not to the point of great risk, because it IS possible to play attacking football without exposing too much at the back), and one that will make our nation proud.

**Doctor DOOM** · 12-07-2005, 08:34 AM

na faraz jan.

you may accept it only for ONE game.

I see it in a whole bunch of games from more than a year ago.

it all depends on standards and expectations.
if we claim to be among asia's top teams, then it is foolish to keep n korea and bahrain as our measuring sticks .

and it is downright criminal to use such measuring sticks, when we are going to play at the WC !

---------

before we go into clinical finishing, and this and that , we must first consider WHAT attitude is being translated into the team.

if the same ultra-defensive ( an insufferable misery when you see it applied in games against pisspoor taems like bahrain, n korea, japan's B team, korea's B team ) attitude is still being fed into the team, then talking about clinical this and that is just waste of time.

unless the team's philosophy changes, and branko accepts our team performs better when it is attacking ( coz simply put, it is Iranian football's nature ), we shall have absolutely NO HOPE to achieve anything in the WC.

come on, when we play with a defensive formation, with 7 defensive minded players , against bahrain or panama .... what do you think branko will do against england or holland?

play with 3 forwards ?

dont kid urself, mate.
he will play 8-1-1 formation !!

and then we shall be the laughing stock of the whole world.
even if we conceded a couple only.

===========

if you go to fight tyson, you can adopt two strategies:

1- crouch and huddle in a corner , and cover your face and coil into a ball, so the blows will not dislocate ur jaw or break a rib.
you will get pounded, but may not sustain serious injury.
however, the whole world will laugh at you.
so now you have TWO sets of injuries:
one is your physical injuries which will go away in no time.
the other, LONG-standing one is injury to ur pride and reputation.
and believe me, this one will not go away so easily.
just ask uae, maldives, ksa, ....

2- at the bell, charge the bugger and get in a couple of punches .
yes, you will get pounded eventually, once tyson gets past his surprise that "such a runt has the audacity to come at me and actually land a couple on me".
but the spectators would have risen up, elated and clapped thwir arms off for your show of guts.
pounding is imminent and eventual.
but by the next day and days, while you are tending to your injuries, ppl who come across you, pat you on the back and cheer you or say "jolly good show, lad" or ... .
at least recognize you as a fighter who went down FIGHTING , against tyson.
( and not a sissy wuss who was laughed at and will be forgotten in a day or two )

I , personally will take a 3-1 or 4-2 loss with lots of fighting by our side to argentina, than a 2-0 ala uae-style, time wasting and ultra-defensive tactics.

**zzgloo** · 12-07-2005, 08:51 AM

Regarding our strategies...I would like to add some to what is already said, which mostly faivores attacking football.
Obviously, we need to have different strategies,with different teams, as well as being the first game,or the secound or the third....
for the first game, which appears to be with the top seed, I realy belive, attacking system will not work....and " takeing it to them " may be premature.....
In the first half of that game, usualy, the big teams do not start with attacking, rather than,examining the system of the other team,and makeing sure,they do not recieve any goles.....and based on my understanding of TM steangth, we do not do good when we are behind....therefore, our main gole for the first half, should be " not to get behind " as, if we get behind, the big teams usualy double thier attack to add to thier advantage....so, the more we keep the status code the better, ....as I said, this would be only the strategy for the first half of the first game,with the A team.....recieving any gole early would be extremly dangerouse for us, therefore, more important than scoring gole early.

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