Strategies For Wc !!!

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan, exactly as you say, the big teams will try to evaluate the opponents in the first half.
and that I dont think is status-quo, coz it IS their plan.
and as you say, they will pile on the pressure as the game wears on.
and knowing our defensive frailties, you think we could sustain such INCREASING pressure for 90 minutes ?
if we adopt such ultra-defensive modes against the top team, we are surely going down hard.
our team is not comfortable with such formations.
and by keeping everyone back in our half, it will only allow the opponent's defenders ( and even GK !! ) to JOIN IN on ther attack !
meaning even more pressure on us and more routes to score for them !

the matter of "surprise" when a lower team meets a better team is of great importance to the lower team.

and if the bigger team attacks, we can utilize our pacy players like kia, kaabi, borhani to threaten their goal and maybe get lucky.
therefore we shd NOT adopt ultra-defensive formation.
we must keep a couple of ppl within and among the opponent's defenders.... WITH some midfield support.

but that is if the team has worked on its attacking strategies.
have we?
we cant score against crappy teams, and have forgotten our natural attacking game !!

[zzgloo]

zz jan, exactly as you say, the big teams will try to evaluate the opponents in the first half.
and that I dont think is status-quo, coz it IS their plan.
and as you say, they will pile on the pressure as the game wears on.
and knowing our defensive frailties, you think we could sustain such INCREASING pressure for 90 minutes ?
the matter of "surprise" when a lower team meets a better team is of great importance to the lower team.
and if the bigger team attacks, we can utilize our pacy players like kia, kaabi, borhani to threaten their goal and maybe get lucky.
but that is if the team has worked on its attacking strategies.
have we?
we cant score against crappy teams, and have forgotten our natural attacking game !!

Doctor jan,
If we try to remember the previuose WC s, in all obset games that an underdog team beat the bigger team, it was never the situation that the underdog team scores early, and holds down the big team for the whole game, rather, always, was like, they are tied till mid secound half or so, and then the underdog team scores, and finishes soon after.

[Doctor DOOM]

yes, zz jan, we have seen such games.
but there is something about the PHYSICAL fitness of the weaker team that made up for their lacks.
senegal ran their arses off.
turkey did it too.
cameroon , nigeria, korea, ...
they all were in tip top physical shape, and all its 10 in-field players ran twice as hard, and twice as fast.

are we like that?

how many of our players are that fast and run that hard?


basically those teams played TO THEIR NATURE & STRENGTH.
we all know african teams are extremely physical .
so they utilized their own positives.

ours is attacking football with flair.
but we are NOT utilizing it.
havent done so, in a very long time !!
becoz the mentality of the team has been tampered with and that half attempt to make it a defensive one, transformed from an attacking one has been only that; half attempt and "naaghes" !!
( could it be the lack of experience by the coach ? )

right now, we are neither good in attacking ( forgotten how it is done !! ) nor are we good in defending !!

neither here nor there.
na be daarim, na be baar !!
"fallen in between the stools" , as they say !

[zzgloo]

Doctore jan, your point about every body should use thier own streangth is very correct, and your point make even more sence in our frist game, which reletively, we would be unknown, and it may surprize some people, and our recent failiers may work to our advantage, and other teams will not give us the credit we deserve........and I although, still believe, oue first proyirety in our frist game against big name team,should be not recieving any goles, yet, your point, is more correct, as general strategy of TM is the whole WC games, ........again, I do not know why, But, I just remembered the game not too long ago, a friendly between, Germany and Mexico,in germany.......
The not too physical mexican players, just did not care about the hieght or streangth of german team, and attacked from the get go !!, and although ,they lost the game 4 to 3 , yet , the German team was absolutly confused, and got lucky, to win the game.......But, the mexicans had, BORGETI, who, not many may know him, but, he is the master oppotunist !and a great finisher...which we do not have some one like him at this moment.......the opportunities, do not come in bunches, and should be takeing advantage of,at any chance we get......that is why, may be , keeping ali daie, is not so bad...because, after all, even though he is old, but the experinece he has, we defenetly need it there.

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan, you are right on the money on the matter of "the opportunities, do not come in bunches".

very true.

and that is , I think ( and may be wrong ) becoz of our departure from our true strenghts and nature of attacking football !

I mean I would rather see a game like the yugoslavia game where the poor yugo's who prior to the game thought it a done deal and were already discussing the number of goals each player would score on us, ... and by the time they scored their lucky goal, they rushed into the field as if they won the world bloody cup !!!
in a game that we lost many chances to score, and lost it only due to our inexperience and amateurish football.
now, we are far more exposed and experienced.

I'd rather see that, than our frightened game against germany, when our team was held back and played a boring, sub-dued defensive game, afraid to let in goals, .... which happened anyway, by a very INFERIOR and weak german team !
I highly doubt ANY of our pot A and C teams are going to be as weak and inferior as that german team.


we are losing time and opportunity in bolstering our attack and overall team strategy.
by insisting on useless defensive formations that do NOTHING for our team, we have lost all our usual characteristics also !!

can TM be considered an attacking team ?
no.
can it be a good "counter-attacking" one?
no.

when branko and some of his supporters "rave" about possession football, they forget to mention, the team plays it this way:
1- keep passing the ball between the back 4 and either of def-mids ... almost 85% of the time in our own half and the other 15% ON the mid-line !

2- they do it against teams that have already taken up defensive positions and do NOT really challenge our 5-6 ( above ) players for the ball anyway.

3- we have done this against very weak teams only.


whereas, the VALUED possession football is seen when your team plays the passing game INSIDE the opponent's half .
watch the barca-real recent game.
barca DOMINANT in possession, while keeping the passing inside real's half.
( remember, it is real Madrid , not chalghooz-abad united . a team as good, and even MORE star-studded than barca. )
away, IN Madrid !!!!

THAT is possession football.
not that sorry excuse many ppl tout.

so when the speed and pace of the team taken up with such subbish tactics, how on earth are they to have a hope at a successful "counter attack" against world's top teams?

the abysmal number of goals scored by our strikers and offensive players CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES that branko has ruined our natural flair in offensive football !!

[zzgloo]

It is possible, that we ( Me and Doctor ) are being too hard on Branko....as far as his mentality for the world cup......
Lets see......
Who's plan was to play attacking football against south korea, bahrain.etc. during the asian games ?......it was Branko's
who's plan was to play agresive against Germany in the first half ?......It was branko's.
We were know,by other asian powers,as an attacking team......and all that was not because, of the Iranian media had asked Branko to do so, nor was,our player's suggestion..........It was Branko's Judgment !!!
although, doctor obsevention that those days are gone correct, yet, it is hard for me to believe, that ,such mentality no longer exit in Branko.....

[ARYA]

zz jan, I'm sure you remember the 98 WC. Do you recall TM not backing down from anyone? Do recall the praise we received after the WC as we were considered the best Asian team at the WC. Of course we had the best record out of all Asian team at this cup, because we won one game. But in my opinion it was the manner in which we lost the other two which brought TM such high praises from everyone.

As DD says in the Yugoslavia game, everyone specially the Yugoslavians assumed that TM is a lay down, but did you see the rattled look upon the Yugoslavian players faces as more and more the Iran team showed to be even more dangerous than them. Their goalie as a matter of fact saved a couple of sure goals. The only reason we lost the game was due to Nakisa's misjudgment on the free kick as he was completely out of position. I cannot help but think that if Abedzadeh were in this game, our TM fortunes at the 98 WC may have been completely different. Which brings up another point that DD, faraz, you and I have been arguing for ever it seems, and that is our troubles with selecting a back up keeper as well as the lack of international game time experienced by such an individual. After all this is how we lost the game to Yugoslavia. Now imagine that god forbid Mirzapour is injured, just like Abedzadeh was for the first game. What than?

Now compare our 98 WC team vs. say the 2002 Saudi or China teams. Both teams played an ultra defensive formation against just about everyone, only relying on counter attacks, need I say more?

I pray that DD is wrong and that TM has not lost it offensive expertise.

[Doctor DOOM]

zz jan, I agree that TM did display its usual aggressive and attacking football against korea and bahrain.

now, was it branko's orders?
I do believ so, and agree.

but did it have another factor to spice it up for our lads?
such as revenge ?
hell, yes.
god know yes.

( usa game another great example of this grudge match mentality )

at the same time, who ordered that pathetically frightened game plan against china?


so what are we to understand ?
that our lads need to really hold a grudge against a team to be inspired to run at them?

what if we dont meet a team we hold a grudge against ?
in the WC it will be like that .
damn fifa for putting usa in the same pool.
the only team we could hold any semblance of a grudge !!

so what now?

--------
secondly, after AC 2004 ( which is the crux of my argument ) where have we shown such football ?
if we keep only ONE game out ( japan in azadi ), we have NOTHING to show for this one and half years !!

laos?
panama?
azerbaijan?
bahrain?
n korea ?
macedonia?
korea?

where ?

it is AFTER AC2004 that the team started its downslide.
and we, true to form, have not seen any game ( with one exception ) that may support the claim that branko will adopt an aggressive and fighting mentality onto the team !

why hasnt branko repeated what he did in AC2004 then?

I'm not saying emulate a world beating coach.
I'm only asking why he cant even do what he did a year or so ago?


--------

now, what has happened to him to do away with ANY style resembling an offensive one?
I dont know.

is it fear of elimination?
coz jordan did put that fear in us.

qatar's game also went a long way to make sure that fear take its root in branko's mind.

WCQ's came and we were slowly turning into a team without any teeth !!
toothless and reactionary !

is toothless and reactionary a good description of TM and Iran prior to branko?
NO.
look at MK's team.
everybody feared us.
yes, MK was inexperienced and naive to think with one set of tactics he can conquere all, again and again.
but MK is not the measuring stick here.

our TM looks bloody sub-dued and impotent.
why?
how?

===================
and just as arya jan said:
if we try our defensive game, just as china let in a bundle of goals ( in one game, 5-0 for example ) or ksa ( 8-0 ) , we shall , too, concede ..... and maybe not as bad as them.
maybe we'll get away with some 3-0 or 2-0 loss.
but a loss, where we look scared to death of everyone's shadow !

that to me is worse than a 10-0 loss !

[zzgloo]

My dear DD, and Dear Arya......
We are all reletively intelegent individuals,and see the reality as it is, and we do not fool overseleves,.......There is a bid possibility, that we are all right, that is to say, DD is right, arya is right, Sohail is right, martin Reza is right..etc......
For the profesional players in Europe and Soth America, and the kind of money they make, has made them to be very efficient and daring....they play as if them game is for thier Mother's life !, and give %110 effort......They Run and hustle as if it is the end of the world, ...in every game......and That is the point, ....IN EVERY GAME....!!!!
and since, our players are not that way ( and only players such as mahdavikia and hashemian just started to do so )........and the only time they may possibly give such an effort, is either for grudg ( as DD suggested ),or getting very scared,like the end of the game with QATAR !, or may be when the game is in the WC...which is out-most important.....
therefore, we get to the point that Sohail mentioned, which, when it counts in the WC, TM will play well !!!....that is to say, our players play in the world cup, just the way top Profesional players do !!!!
Now , comes the issue of, Coaching !!, and if that case is also true, During the WC ?.......
Will branko's performance, and ingenuiety kick-in during the world cup ??!!
I must say, based on my fair judgment.....may be !!
he has shown in the past that he could, and he would....yet, we have also seen his immagination to get very dry, ( Like the game with jordan,North Korea, secound baHRAIN GAME ETC. ).....
sO, WHICH BRANKO,are we going to see ?
It is possible, that we will see both !!!, that is to say, he seems like to believe, he needs to play conservative with some, and not so with others....
as he saw no need to show any power toward bahrain, or qatar.....yet, show off Iranian might against others.....
that is why I say, we all may be right !!
And, for some,it is matter of faith !, and for the others , it is matter of risk !

[Doctor DOOM]

then zz jan, if we are to be subjected to players' sudden rush of "gheyrat" and have to cling onto a hope that maybe our player's "rag-e gheyrat" would force them to do something .... THEN WHY ARE WE WASTING SO MUCH MONEY ON A FOREIGN COACH?

hell, even faraki will do !
( he HAS won busan for us, and got the 3rd place in Asia , afterall )

if the fate and turn of events is dictated by whether our players' gheyrat jolts them into action, then why waste money?

why oppose MK?
why oppose keyhan varzeshi's idea?
we may end up saving some money too.

what about a coach's duties, then?
what is the effect of a coach in games then?

zz jan, I think all this is mere excuses for a coach who has simply run out of ideas, and hasnt added anything to the team for a long long time !
he is not able to deliver anymore.
that's it.
as I said earlier: kafgir be tah-e deeg khordeh !

or as you say:
the well is DRY.
no more water!

no wonder his dry spell has been a continuous one for the past year !
shdnt that say something?
sound a warning bell?

-----------

hehehe
mate, somehow I find it very difficult to accept he ( TM ) could have crushed macedonia, jordan, bahrain, n korea, s korea, japan, ... and just didnt .
cause he just didnt want to !!
no reason !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


na dadash, as "Accum's Razor" explains, when we are faced with several complicated scenarios as explanations, usually the simplest one is the correct one.

meaning, he just , plain COULD NOT !
yes, as simple as that.

[faraz]

ZZ jan - i believe if NOW we can talk about certain strategies or defined goals, as the groups have been made.

First off, in my opinion, we must define a goal:

TOP THE GROUP

We should AIM to do this. I don't see any reason why with good planning and practice, we can't acheive this goal. But I believe it's important for Branko to instill this sort of mentality into our boys so that they know we're not just the decoration, but the main feast. Our biggest obstacle is our mentality (thank god we did not get a big "name", because we all know what happens when we play against the "name"), and we got very lucky in this draw. We don't have an immense powerhouse who by "name" can strike fear into all our boys; quite the contrary, against mexico, we've already previously played, and did not fair badly.

Now, to talk strategies:

First thing's first: Friendlies, Friendlies, Friendlies

I would love to see Iran play against IVORY COAST (a relatively strong African team), Paraguay or Ecuador (style of play resembles Mexico) and finally, the Netherlands or Spain. This would be of great value to Branko and to TM, and I have do doubt that it will be of no difficulty, as any chance to play one of the elite 32 is a good opportunity to further add experience to the sides.

Secondly: Study, Study, Study

Teams made it to the WC because of certain "trends" that they followed. For example, Portugal's attacking flair was a good reason for their qualification. I personally believe Branko and Co. should study these trends (and I am sure they will do it 20 times more in depth than i'm describing), and try and minimize them.

Thirdly: Change, Change, Change

If there's ONE time when Iran should put the gas on the pedal, push forward, and attack, it is the WC. We don't want 0-0 draws. We want the full 3 points. The defensive mentality worked PERFECT against anti-footballing nations, but now, we are going against free-flowing, football-oriented teams. They won't waste time, fake injuries, or fight. They'll play football. And that's exactly what we need to do.

[Doctor DOOM]

very good post faraz jan.

1- on friendlies.
great choices.
absolutely spot on.

but where's the GUTS to hold friendlies ?
coz we all know what would happen if we actually played a friendly !!

apart from the team knowing about its defects and an opportunity to fine tune the team ... WHICH IS APPARENTLY NOT VERY IMPORTANT, some ppl may lose their place in the team ... WHICH IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE !!!!!



2- a person's ability to change things, shd be evaluated if he/she can start with HIMSELF and his own house.
when a person has been INCAPABLE to clean his own house, why are we asking him to study others' and try to figure out how to undo others?

curious !


3- faraz jan, WHERE did u see this :
"defensive game is good for anti-football teams" ?

on one hand you say "antifootball" .... then you want the team to actually HELP that antifootball, by playing a reactionary, subdued game?
isnt that playing to the hands of the antifootball ?

when boxing, ur opponent mostly closes his guard and stays back and once in a while kicks you in the shin ..... what do you do?
you also stay back ?
him, in his corner, and you in ur corner?
hehehe ...... the ref will kick both of you out for "pus$y-footing" !!!
and the next day both of you are known as sissy wimps !

no, mate.
you go at him even harder.
you POUND the little gnat.


it is only against a GOOD accomplished boxer ( maybe better than you ) that you bide ur time and play to a strategy.
or you can just surprise him and go at him, when he least expects it.

[faraz]

Peyman Jan, thnx for your reply

1 - The IFF MUST put that mentality aside. It does exist, i acknowledge, but if we do not get a couple of quality friendlies, we are DOOMED. There is a direct relationship between the number of friendlies and success in the WC. I do agree; we've been rather gutless, and hopefully, it won't take an earthquake each time we wish for a quality friendly, but the time is NOW. IFF MUST ACT, as as SOON AS POSSIBLE.

2 - I believe the 2 are very different things. The ability to study an opponent is not in any way linked to the ability to study yourself, because you study an opponent without any bias whatsoever. There are certain attitudes that Branko has developed against certain players that will cause hiim to think differently of that player than under normal circumstances. This is definitely a negative thing; however, i gaurantee you it exists all across the world with numerous other coaches. When you analyze an opponent, you sit your team down, and go frame by frame, see the movements of the players from many different angles, and try and deconstruct their successful movements or patterns.

3 - The boxing analogy, although ideal, doesn't apply to Iran's case Peyman Jan. We were playing against teams who could POTENTIALLY be dangerous when given the opportunity. Let me give you an example of what I mean.

Had we played attacking football against Bahrain in Manama or Iran (or NK), two possible outcomes could have occured:

a) We win 6-0, completely dominate the game from start to finish, and pulverize our opponents

or

b) We have one of those unlucky games (that oddly enough occur rather frequently) where we have 99% possession, hit the post 3 times, and suddenly the opponent counters, scores, and we lose 1-0.

Branko, in my opinion, ELIMINATED option B during the qualifiers, because the opponents did not even have HALF A CHANCE at our net. I know there were some instances here or there, but they were RARE (Bahraini header in Manama is the ONLY one i can think of off the top of my head) and realistically, very few teams can score with just one chance and win a game. He GAURANTEED our qualification. I do agree, the potential was there to blow out our opponents each and every game, but what if we had 2 b) type games, and found ourselves fighting for qualification, like has happened SO MANY times in our past?

Peyman Jan, a good boxer is a cautious boxer. Then when the opportunity is there, all it takes is one hit for the knockout. Look at all the big names, and they all follow the same trend. Patience is of great importance, and taking your chances as they come.

[zzgloo]

Mexico Is The Key !!!!!!!!!!!

Mexico has always been my secound most faivoret team.....faivoret,in a sence that I like them,and I have watched almost all thier recent games ( in last 3 years )...I have attended ESTADIO AZTECA 3 times, I used to live for year in " Disterito federal ",I even have the mexican driver licence !! , and reletively know alot about them....
all these said, The point I like to make here, in my opnion, is the importance of our game with mexico.....
The key in the whole world cup, for TM, is the game with mexico.....
the first game......
If, we beat mexico, and I say if, then we will defenetly qualify for the secound round !!
mexico, after the loss to iran, will pave the way for us, and will bring down the others and we will be set free....
the way to beat mexico is not hard, as we need to study, day and night, the games,played between Mexico and USA in the last 5 years....
the USA, has had the mexico's number !!!, denis arena, the USA coach has been very out spoken about the way to beat mexico, and he believes, the opposing team needs only to play fast !!.....because, the stlye of mexico,is being fast, and by playing fast, opposing team can slow down mexico, and it is also very important to notralize thier striker " borgeti, and that is also has been easy for USA, which the coach Of USA, took care of him by, assigning a physical, tough defender, specialy for him, as borgeti,gets very frustrated when faceing a rough physical defender who roughes him up !!, some one like " badavi ", can be given a duty of just staying with borgrti at all time,and don't let him out of his site, and rough me up at any chance he gets .
A slow down game plan, and a defensive plan will absolutly not work against mexico, as it will help thier tactics.
i shall, post more details, as well as, details of mexican media ,on Iran and thier plans against Iran, in up-comming mounths.

[Doctor DOOM]

faraz jan,

2- I still maintain, all the game reading and ... will come to naught if the person is incapable of effecting ANY change in his own house.

when the person, either doesnt recognize the problems in his house ( a very grave scenario and almost hopeless !! ) , or he does and yet is unable to do anything about it ..... then what IS the point in wasting time on the opponents?

yes, he will find out ronaldo will rip through any team's left flank like a hot knife thru' butter.
when he hasnt been able to fix our own left flank, and for more than 4 yrs, TM has been operating with ONE flank more off than on .... what , prey tell, would he say or do to nulify ronaldo?

put zandi , the ever-absconding left footer to guard him ?
might as well put ostaad asadi to do that.

or again, since he will insist on nosrati playing, put him to block ronaldo?
riight !

or maybe yahya would very courteusly request borgetti to run slower, or even walk, so he can catch up with him and tackle his balls ?

-----------

3- potentially?
yes.
hey, the guy has reached the boxing ring.
anyone reaching the ring HAS potential.

but what IS HAPPENING right now right there?

sometimes, ppl mistake "aggressive" with "careless".
plz dont do so.

-------------

"opponents didnt have half a chance" ?
faraz jan .... which team r u talking about /
Iran?

remember bahrain came close to scoring and only due to mirza's acrobatinc save, they didnt ? ( mind yo, they did , coz we looked like frightened mice, huddled in our own half, allowing them to come at us !!! )
or what about n korea's UNfairly ruled our penalty?
or .... !

u seem to have completely forgotten those games !!

===============================

good point zz jan.
very dicry and risky strategy... but I like it.

the thing is, CAN we do it, in our FIRST game?

I certainly hope so.


all of which brings us back to square ONE :
is TM offensive and aggressive enough to pull it off?