Navad (90) | Official Thread 2014–15

[Dreamer]

Wow, this idiot from Navad that does the week in history just asked an elementary school kid in front of everyone if he was PP or SS and then said he must like food a lot because the kid was chubby.

Wtf is wrong with him?

There's so much nonsense and jokes in poor taste on those segments whether its Adel or Mazdak Mirzaei providing the commentary. Downright disgusting.

[clipsport]

They were never this bad. Plus those clubs were an outlet for young players to get actual playing time.

Who knows if we would have ever had a Nekounam if he didn't get playing time at PAS.

No offense to Ghermez Agha (who likes Malavan), but teams like Malavan, Pas(at least the old one) Aboomoslem(not anymore I think), Fajr, niroo zamini, even teraktor etc (military teams) have been ruining our football. Every time a team develops a good young player, they have to basically give them up to one of these teams b/c of Sarbazi. WTF. What the point of developing these players if they are just gonna leave for nothing. After a while clubs realize that there is no point in investing in young players as it's basically useless for them.

[rugs]

No offense to Ghermez Agha (who likes Malavan), but teams like Malavan, Pas(at least the old one) Aboomoslem(not anymore I think), Fajr, niroo zamini, even teraktor etc (military teams) have been ruining our football. Every time a team develops a good young player, they have to basically give them up to one of these teams b/c of Sarbazi. WTF. What the point of developing these players if they are just gonna leave for nothing. After a while clubs realize that there is no point in investing in young players as it's basically useless for them.

That's a separate issue.

Teams like PAS had a tradition of fielding young players, similar to Naft Tehran now.

There were and are military teams that do not do that.

[clipsport]

That's a separate issue.

Teams like PAS had a tradition of fielding young players, similar to Naft Tehran now.

There were and are military teams that do not do that.

Yes b/c they basically were getting all the top talented young players from all over the country. And I don't really recall, but they might have even invested in young players themselves. It made sense for them b/c they weren't forced to basically give them up to other teams for nothing. The same thing is true about Malavan today.

Anyways my point is that this whole "Sarbazi Team" thing is retarded and is hurting our football. It's punishing teams that might be interested in developing their own players.

btw, why was Teraktor Sazi added to the list of "Sarbazi teams". Since when is building Tractors considered military service.

[irani8perspolis]

^^tractor is owned partly by the sepah thats why it is one of the sarbazi teams

[Ghermez Agha]

No offense to Ghermez Agha (who likes Malavan), but teams like Malavan, Pas(at least the old one) Aboomoslem(not anymore I think), Fajr, niroo zamini, even teraktor etc (military teams) have been ruining our football. Every time a team develops a good young player, they have to basically give them up to one of these teams b/c of Sarbazi. WTF. What the point of developing these players if they are just gonna leave for nothing. After a while clubs realize that there is no point in investing in young players as it's basically useless for them.

It isnt teams like malavan, fajr, and tractor that ruin players by any means....they are not the ones who are requiring players to go to their teams to play due to military serive. Its our system that is so poorly ran and constructed that is producing this problem.

And just out of curiosity, who exactly has malavsn ruined? Last i checked oladi, zare, and nouri (3 of the most notable malavan products of the last 10-12 years) all had their glory days in makavsn compared to their awful stints in esteghlal/perspolis. If anything they gave those guys the name they currently have, not tarnish them.

[clipsport]

It isnt teams like malavan, fajr, and tractor that ruin players by any means....they are not the ones who are requiring players to go to their teams to play due to military serive. Its our system that is so poorly ran and constructed that is producing this problem.

And just out of curiosity, who exactly has malavsn ruined? Last i checked oladi, zare, and nouri (3 of the most notable malavan products of the last 10-12 years) all had their glory days in makavsn compared to their awful stints in esteghlal/perspolis. If anything they gave those guys the name they currently have, not tarnish them.

Maybe I wasn't being clear. These players are being ruined in these clubs. But their forced transfers to these teams b/c of "sarbazi" is ruining our football.

Here is an example.
This is the Esteghlal Youth Team from around 2002. Look at who's in it. Andronik Teymourian, Mojtaba Jabbari, Khosrow Heydari, Mansour Ahmadzah etc. So what happened to this team? Did they graduate from the youth team and join the Esteghlal senior team?

NO

They were all sent to Sarbazi. Jabbari went to Aboumoslem. Heydari went to Aboumoslem then later Pas. Ando went to Oghab and then later Aboumoslem. Ahmadzadeh went to Pas.
Jabbari didn't return until 3 season later. Ando and Heydari didn't return until 9 years later. Ahmadzadeh never returned (not sure what happened to him). So if you were Esteghlal, what would be your motivation in investing in youth players? Once they reach the age when they can help you, they will basically be forced to go to one of these clubs b/c of Sarbazi. Naturally they would stop caring about youth development as it doesn't really help them.



btw, Just look at what happened to these teams when the military disowned them. Aboomoslem wasn't able to freeload from other teams and they got relegated 2 levels. The same would happen to the others as well.

[rugs]

It isnt teams like malavan, fajr, and tractor that ruin players by any means....they are not the ones who are requiring players to go to their teams to play due to military serive. Its our system that is so poorly ran and constructed that is producing this problem.
And just out of curiosity, who exactly has malavsn ruined? Last i checked oladi, zare, and nouri (3 of the most notable malavan products of the last 10-12 years) all had their glory days in makavsn compared to their awful stints in esteghlal/perspolis. If anything they gave those guys the name they currently have, not tarnish them.

Not to mention we are mixing issues.

The sarbazi issue is a separate issue.

Giving playing time to young players is a different issue.

Ezzatollahi and Nekounam came up through the youth teams of Malavan and PAS. The reason these teams played younger players was because they have a tradition of such.

Just like Sepahan. Sepahan isn't a military team, but they have a tradition of bringing up players from their youth teams. In fact, Sepahan lost one of its youth players to the military when Haj Safi went to Tractor Sazi.

We should definitely get rid of the military teams, but that won't change the fact that teams like Malavan, Sepahan, Zob Ahan, Foolad, etc... will continue to produce young players.

While teams like Perspolis and Esteghlal Tehran will simply buy players.

It's good that Navad is bringing these issues up because the conditions of the youth at big clubs like PP and SS is embarrassing.

[Ghermez Agha]

Maybe I wasn't being clear. These players are being ruined in these clubs. But their forced transfers to these teams b/c of "sarbazi" is ruining our football.

Here is an example.
This is the Esteghlal Youth Team from around 2002. Look at who's in it. Andronik Teymourian, Mojtaba Jabbari, Khosrow Heydari, Mansour Ahmadzah etc. So what happened to this team? Did they graduate from the youth team and join the Esteghlal senior team?

NO

They were all sent to Sarbazi. Jabbari went to Aboumoslem. Heydari went to Aboumoslem then later Pas. Ando went to Oghab and then later Aboumoslem. Ahmadzadeh went to Pas.
Jabbari didn't return until 3 season later. Ando and Heydari didn't return until 9 years later. Ahmadzadeh never returned (not sure what happened to him). So if you were Esteghlal, what would be your motivation in investing in youth players? Once they reach the age when they can help you, they will basically be forced to go to one of these clubs b/c of Sarbazi. Naturally they would stop caring about youth development as it doesn't really help them.

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btw, Just look at what happened to these teams when the military disowned them. Aboomoslem wasn't able to freeload from other teams and they got relegated 2 levels. The same would happen to the others as well.

So you're telling me ando and Jabbari were ruined in abumoslem? They were outstanding as young players there and received team Meli call ups and later transfer to Europe (in Andos case and almost in Jabari's case if he didn't reject Grenoble) and serve TM very well in important moments, especially ando.

Sounds like just frustration of an Esteghlal fan to me, there is no point made in what you said.

[Ghermez Agha]

Not to mention we are mixing issues.

The sarbazi issue is a separate issue.

Giving playing time to young players is a different issue.

Ezzatollahi and Nekounam came up through the youth teams of Malavan and PAS. The reason these teams played younger players was because they have a tradition of such.

Just like Sepahan. Sepahan isn't a military team, but they have a tradition of bringing up players from their youth teams. In fact, Sepahan lost one of its youth players to the military when Haj Safi went to Tractor Sazi.

We should definitely get rid of the military teams, but that won't change the fact that teams like Malavan, Sepahan, Zob Ahan, Foolad, etc... will continue to produce young players.

While teams like Perspolis and Esteghlal Tehran will simply buy players.

It's good that Navad is bringing these issues up because the conditions of the youth at big clubs like PP and SS is embarrassing.

Couldn't have said it better myself, and this is coming from a diehard PP fan. Can't remember the last time we have produced a good player from our youth team (probably just Haghighi at the moment) but can name at least 20-25 players we have ruined. Same for Esteghlal.....the sorkhabi teams aren't places for players to grow and that's been evident for years now.

[clipsport]

So you're telling me ando and Jabbari were ruined in abumoslem? They were outstanding as young players there and received team Meli call ups and later transfer to Europe (in Andos case and almost in Jabari's case if he didn't reject Grenoble) and serve TM very well in important moments, especially ando.

Sounds like just frustration of an Esteghlal fan to me, there is no point made in what you said.

I'm not sure if you are doing this on purpose or not, but if you had read the 1st sentence of my posts I clearly explained that those clubs are not ruining the players but rather hurting our football.

Are these "sarbazi" clubs ruining the players?
NO

Are they ruining the youth development programs of clubs like Esteghlal and others?
YES

why?
b/c those clubs are taking the youth players developed in other teams b/c of some BS "sarbazi" rule that makes no sense.

I mean think about it. Lets say Manchester United spends years investing in players like Danny Welbeck, Adnan Januzai, Jonny Evans, Gary Neville, David Beckham, Tom Cleverley, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes etc. And then once they become 18, they are shipped out to London Police F.C. on a free transfer. Why would Manchester United even waste their time developing players. Makes no sense.

I hope I was clear this time.

[rugs]

I'm not sure if you are doing this on purpose or not, but if you had read the 1st sentence of my posts I clearly explained that those clubs are not ruining the players but rather hurting our football.

Are these "sarbazi" clubs ruining the players?
NO

Are they ruining the youth development programs of clubs like Esteghlal and others?
YES

why?
b/c those clubs are taking the youth players developed in other teams b/c of some BS "sarbazi" rule that makes no sense.

I mean think about it. Lets say Manchester United spends years investing in players like Danny Welbeck, Adnan Januzai, Jonny Evans, Gary Neville, David Beckham, Tom Cleverley, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes etc. And then once they become 18, they are shipped out to London Police F.C. on a free transfer. Why would Manchester United even waste their time developing players. Makes no sense.

I hope I was clear this time.

Esteghlal Tehran never had a real youth team or program to begin with for it to get ruined.

Clubs that have real youth programs like Sepahan, Foolad, Zob Ahan, Malavan seem to be doing fine as far as youth development goes given the sarbazi circumstances.

This just sounds like a silly excuse to somehow take away from the fact that esteghlal tehran's youth development or lack thereof is embarrassingly poor and lacking.

All that said, this still has nothing to do with the youth players clubs like PAS used to generate and their tradition of giving them playing time as was the point on Navad.

[irani8perspolis]

Good news from Navad on monday was that Ararat Tehran has been revived and is playing in Tehran's Provincial League.

[clipsport]

Esteghlal Tehran never had a real youth team or program to begin with for it to get ruined.

Clubs that have real youth programs like Sepahan, Foolad, Zob Ahan, Malavan seem to be doing fine as far as youth development goes given the sarbazi circumstances.

This just sounds like a silly excuse to somehow take away from the fact that esteghlal tehran's youth development or lack thereof is embarrassingly poor and lacking.

All that said, this still has nothing to do with the youth players clubs like PAS used to generate and their tradition of giving them playing time as was the point on Navad.

This isn't really about Esteghlal (which btw has given Iranian football more players than all those teams you named) or any other club. Please don't mix issues up. My whole point is that this whole "sarbazi" team thing makes no sense is basically ruining the motivation for teams to have youth programs to begin with.

I'm not sure why you are defending such a BS rule. (besides just wanting to disagree with me on all issues)

Another problem that this "sarbazi" rule brings is that it gives an undeserved and unfair advantage to "sarbazi" teams. Do you know what happened to all those players that were banned from their clubs this year b/c of Sarbazi issues. Guess what, they signed with Nirooye Zamini and Fajr Shiraz in Azadegan league. Those two teams basically got a ton of IPL caliber players overnight b/c of this BS rule. I read somewhere that some of the teams in the Azadegan were so angry at what had happened that they threatened to boycott the league this year.

[irani8perspolis]

This isn't really about Esteghlal (which btw has given Iranian football more players than all those teams you named) or any other club. Please don't mix issues up. My whole point is that this whole "sarbazi" team thing makes no sense is basically ruining the motivation for teams to have youth programs to begin with.
I'm not sure why you are defending such a BS rule. (besides just wanting to disagree with me on all issues)
Another problem that this "sarbazi" rule brings is that it gives an undeserved and unfair advantage to "sarbazi" teams. Do you know what happened to all those players that were banned from their clubs this year b/c of Sarbazi issues. Guess what, they signed with Nirooye Zamini and Fajr Shiraz in Azadegan league. Those two teams basically got a ton of IPL caliber players overnight b/c of this BS rule. I read somewhere that some of the teams in the Azadegan were so angry at what had happened that they threatened to boycott the league this year.

I compiled a list in which it shows which clubs produced more players (through their youth academy, if the player was part of 2 clubs youth academy i chose the one they spent more years in ) than others to our 2014 WC team, our u-22 team, u-19 team, and u-16 team and look at where esteghlal is and please revise your statement:
Saipa (11)
Foolad (10)
Sepahan (10)
Zob Ahan (6)
Malavan (5)
Persepolis (4)
Esteghlal (4)
Paykan (3)
Fajr (3)
Naft Tehran (2 1/2)
Aluminium Hormozgan (2)
Moghavemat Tehran (2)
PAS (2)
Payam (2)
Gostaresh (2)
Damash (2)
Shamoushak (1)
Mainz 05 (1)
Iranjavan (1)
San Diego State (1)
Shahin (1)
Hertha Berlin (1)
Heerenveen (1)
Mes Kerman (1)
Rah Ahan (1)
Padideh (1)
Tablighat Asar (1)
Tractor (1)
Danesh Feridoun (1)
Shahrdar Ardabil (1)
Saba (1)
Khooneh be Khooneh (1)
Ararat (1/2)