Steven Beitashour @ Vancouver Whitecaps | 2014-2015 - NEW

[rugs]

I respect your opinion but I would say that majority of people on this forum are Khareji parast, it's actually a common trait among Iranians. My previous reply was more general and less directed specifically to the Beitashour case.
People here pop up sometimes with names such as Yadollahi and other insane players, saying they should be invited to TM just for the sake of playing in Europe. I probably have less Iranian "blood" like KC would say than most of you guys, but if someone is being less biased here about IPL and 2rageh Iranians it's probably me and guys like Camran Khan. Whenever anyone comes up by critisizing or saying that these foreign 4rth division or MLS players are weaker than an IPL players, PFDC goes absolutely mad as if Beitashour or Davari are their little babies. I put a "2 rageh" player in front of an IPL player if he IS better. Beitashour is not a better player than Montazeri, Davari is not better than our top league goalies, Nazari is not better than Omid Ebrahimi or 31 year old Ando's toe, Hasegawa is not better than Sadeghian. However on the other hand Dejagah IS better than our right wingers, Ghoochannejhad currently IS better than our strikers.
Start being rational people and trust your league because you have no choice. Saying our league has no talent is an insult to our greatest players. If you think we have no talent and that our IPL players are worth nothing, then don't ever ever mention or speak positively about Nekounam, Teymourian, Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Haghighi, Ezzatollahi or any of our past legends coming out of our league. Stop being hypocrites saying Omagad Ando, Jahanbakhsh is so ba gheyrat but go behind and insult the league players and the talent out there.
I'm done with this because there are ridiculous comments like people accused of being xenophobic , without responding to facts, this is getting very ridiculous I made my point

I don't think anyone here fits what you are describing. But in any case I think you may be missing a few things.

1. No one is saying that every single non-IPL player is better than an IPL player.

2. Talent isn't the only factor that makes a team successful. Discipline is a bigger factor in my view. Therefore you cannot ignore the corruption that exists in Iran. For the past 10-15 years players have been able to buy their way on teams from age 8. This leads to a sense of entitlement that we saw play out in TM with the antics of Rahmati and Aghili and thousands of times in the IPL. Sadeghian being the most recent case.

3. Nekounam you speak of and same with Shojaei and Ando and Azmoun and all the players you listed above got themselves out of Iran. Why? to advance their football. Why? Because there is no room to advance in the IPL, there is too much corruption, too many problems. Even our top players know to get out of the IPL. Just look at the supposed talent that stayed and what became of them: Nikbakht, Madanchi, Oladi, Borhani, and the list goes on and on. And then look at the ones that stayed but weren't fortunate enough to play for SS or PP, Fazli, Norouzi, etc... IPL wastes talent. Fazil is probably the best example of this.

4. If news came that Beiranvand was signed by a Bundesliga team, we would all freak out and think he must be really good to get signed by a Bundesliga team. So why is it wrong for us to assume someone like Davari must be good to start on a Bundesliga team? And I define good as: talented, ethical, hard worker and disciplined.

5. You are confusing your opinion with facts. You may think Sadehgian is better than Hasegawa, but I would say Sadeghian is a cancer to himself and Hasegawa is obviously a better team player. I would say Mosalman is better than Sadeghian too.

6. Another problem with the IPL is that PP and SS bias blocks us from seeing other players. Why are people not freaking out about Kaveh Rezai? Why do we not see the same support Sadeghian gets but for Rezai or Sharifi? Why did we not see any support for Sadeghian when he was at Zob Ahan? So it's not really IPL we are talking about here, it's pretty much SS and PP.

Those same players you named you would not be getting any mention here if they did not make it abroad. So it's not so strange for people to focus attention on those who have already made it abroad.

[saadat_abad]

I don't think anyone here fits what you are describing. But in any case I think you may be missing a few things.

1. No one is saying that every single non-IPL player is better than an IPL player.

2. Talent isn't the only factor that makes a team successful. Discipline is a bigger factor in my view. Therefore you cannot ignore the corruption that exists in Iran. For the past 10-15 years players have been able to buy their way on teams from age 8. This leads to a sense of entitlement that we saw play out in TM with the antics of Rahmati and Aghili and thousands of times in the IPL. Sadeghian being the most recent case.

3. Nekounam you speak of and same with Shojaei and Ando and Azmoun and all the players you listed above got themselves out of Iran. Why? to advance their football. Why? Because there is no room to advance in the IPL, there is too much corruption, too many problems. Even our top players know to get out of the IPL. Just look at the supposed talent that stayed and what became of them: Nikbakht, Madanchi, Oladi, Borhani, and the list goes on and on. And then look at the ones that stayed but weren't fortunate enough to play for SS or PP, Fazli, Norouzi, etc... IPL wastes talent. Fazil is probably the best example of this.

4. If news came that Beiranvand was signed by a Bundesliga team, we would all freak out and think he must be really good to get signed by a Bundesliga team. So why is it wrong for us to assume someone like Davari must be good to start on a Bundesliga team? And I define good as: talented, ethical, hard worker and disciplined.

5. You are confusing your opinion with facts. You may think Sadehgian is better than Hasegawa, but I would say Sadeghian is a cancer to himself and Hasegawa is obviously a better team player. I would say Mosalman is better than Sadeghian too.

6. Another problem with the IPL is that PP and SS bias blocks us from seeing other players. Why are people not freaking out about Kaveh Rezai? Why do we not see the same support Sadeghian gets but for Rezai or Sharifi? Why did we not see any support for Sadeghian when he was at Zob Ahan? So it's not really IPL we are talking about here, it's pretty much SS and PP.

Those same players you named you would not be getting any mention here if they did not make it abroad. So it's not so strange for people to focus attention on those who have already made it abroad.

Rugs, i think i might be in love with you! why are you so intelligent

[Camran khan]

I respect your opinion but I would say that majority of people on this forum are Khareji parast, it's actually a common trait among Iranians. My previous reply was more general and less directed specifically to the Beitashour case.

People here pop up sometimes with names such as Yadollahi and other insane players, saying they should be invited to TM just for the sake of playing in Europe. I probably have less Iranian "blood" like KC would say than most of you guys, but if someone is being less biased here about IPL and 2rageh Iranians it's probably me and guys like Camran Khan. Whenever anyone comes up by critisizing or saying that these foreign 4rth division or MLS players are weaker than an IPL players, PFDC goes absolutely mad as if Beitashour or Davari are their little babies. I put a "2 rageh" player in front of an IPL player if he IS better. Beitashour is not a better player than Montazeri, Davari is not better than our top league goalies, Nazari is not better than Omid Ebrahimi or 31 year old Ando's toe, Hasegawa is not better than Sadeghian. However on the other hand Dejagah IS better than our wingers, Ghoochannejhad currently IS better than our strikers.

Start being rational people and trust your league because you have no choice. Saying our league has no talent is an insult to our greatest players. If you think we have no talent and that our IPL players are worth nothing, then don't ever ever mention or speak positively about Nekounam, Teymourian, Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Haghighi, Ezzatollahi or any of our past legends coming out of our league. Stop being hypocrites saying "Omagad Ando, Jahanbakhsh are seooo ba gheyrat" but go behind and insult the league players and the talent out there.
I'm done with this because there are ridiculous comments like people accused of being xenophobic , without responding to facts, this is getting very ridiculous I made my point

[Z Joon]

I don't think anyone here fits what you are describing. But in any case I think you may be missing a few things.

1. No one is saying that every single non-IPL player is better than an IPL player.

2. Talent isn't the only factor that makes a team successful. Discipline is a bigger factor in my view. Therefore you cannot ignore the corruption that exists in Iran. For the past 10-15 years players have been able to buy their way on teams from age 8. This leads to a sense of entitlement that we saw play out in TM with the antics of Rahmati and Aghili and thousands of times in the IPL. Sadeghian being the most recent case.

3. Nekounam you speak of and same with Shojaei and Ando and Azmoun and all the players you listed above got themselves out of Iran. Why? to advance their football. Why? Because there is no room to advance in the IPL, there is too much corruption, too many problems. Even our top players know to get out of the IPL. Just look at the supposed talent that stayed and what became of them: Nikbakht, Madanchi, Oladi, Borhani, and the list goes on and on. And then look at the ones that stayed but weren't fortunate enough to play for SS or PP, Fazli, Norouzi, etc... IPL wastes talent. Fazil is probably the best example of this.

4. If news came that Beiranvand was signed by a Bundesliga team, we would all freak out and think he must be really good to get signed by a Bundesliga team. So why is it wrong for us to assume someone like Davari must be good to start on a Bundesliga team? And I define good as: talented, ethical, hard worker and disciplined.

5. You are confusing your opinion with facts. You may think Sadehgian is better than Hasegawa, but I would say Sadeghian is a cancer to himself and Hasegawa is obviously a better team player. I would say Mosalman is better than Sadeghian too.

6. Another problem with the IPL is that PP and SS bias blocks us from seeing other players. Why are people not freaking out about Kaveh Rezai? Why do we not see the same support Sadeghian gets but for Rezai or Sharifi? Why did we not see any support for Sadeghian when he was at Zob Ahan? So it's not really IPL we are talking about here, it's pretty much SS and PP.

Those same players you named you would not be getting any mention here if they did not make it abroad. So it's not so strange for people to focus attention on those who have already made it abroad.

No problem rugs jan, I willl answer to all your points, no hay ningun problema.

1. Not my point. PFDC acts as if any player in Europe even if it's Slovakia's 3rd division, is better than any IPL players. I would quote most of the guys here to prove my point, but unfortunately I do not have this time.

2. 100% agreed. But talent is there, and people here are still arguing against that. A talented and skilled player stays a good player, I would choose him over a less skilled player.

3. Like in every country they got out to progress. Still: products of the IPL, coming from the IPL.

4. Same way that if Davari with the same abilities was playing in the IPL, no one would freak out. Also I credit much more a player that comes out of a league from a corrupt and broken like Iran, and goes to a Bundesliga team, than if a player is just born in Germany and builds his future from there. So yes I would freak out if Beiranvand would go to a BuLi team, and I understand anyone that would too.

5. I am not, this is my opinion, and for me Sadeghian is better than Hasegawa, if our country name was Japan, Mosalman and Sadeghian would be playing in top leagues like all of the alaki Korean players of the moment. Besides, I can name many players that have much more discipline issues than Sadeghian but are still playing top European football, or at least in a good league.

6. I have absolutely no bias and prefer mostly players that are actually not sorkhabi. I was just citing the popular names to make my point.

"Those same players you named you would not be getting any mention here if they did not make it abroad. So it's not so strange for people to focus attention on those who have already made it abroad."

I think they would still, because they are talented. Those same players from the European leagues such as Davari, Beitashour, Nazari would also not be getting any mention here if they did not play in Europe and played in IPL.

They made it abroad from the IPL, which shows that like our history demonstrates, most of our legendary players were product of the IPL, so history will repeat itself and this will not change. The arrival of Nazari or Hasegawa will not improve the team, the developpment of our IPL talent such as Sharifi, Sadeghian, Rahmani ect.. will.

[Z Joon]

Sharmandeh mikoni Camran Khan Exactly my point. But some guys are too narrow minded TBH and I won't loose my time convincing anyone on the internet forum.

[Kiarash]

Zandi360,

I think it's really harsh to say that at least Hasegawa does not bring any contribution to the development of Team Melli. Just being objective and looking at the facts, he is a well known and established J-League player for few years now. He is a regular starter first at FC Tokyo and now Cerezo, two popular clubs in Japan. And J-League isn't some small league in Asia, it's actually one of the best in terms of professionalism, infrastructure and even talent (lots of players have gone from J-League to decent EU leagues).

Because he has been raised in such environment he would be beneficial for Iran. He is not our saviour but he would be useful and do a honest job. He has good vision, has some great assists from time to time and is an all-round midfielder which we will need when the aged midfielders will retire. Some will say that he should not even be considered because he is not good enough for Japan-B..thats because their midfield is damn crowded with way more talented players than him, which doesn't says he is not good enough.

Btw, to say Sadeghian is better than Hasegawa without even following Aria is just a joke. I have never seen Aria having such bad attitude, its unfair to say he is worse than Sadeghian. What has Sadeghian proved? IPL is not even comparable to J-League. last time I checked Sadeghian was still playing in IPL.

Nazari is another story, though.

[saadat_abad]

see i agree 100% with your post! i was a supporter and a fan of davari. i still am but now i can say i was wrong and we do have better keepers! haghighi one and yes the young beirnavand. ur 100% right when u say just cause u were born and played in Europe doesnt make u better than ipl players! yes but, beitashour has proved himself in MLS, getting voted the best right back in the MLS and having played for the MLS all stars against chelsea isnt enough? being invited to the USMNT for his great play isnt enough? i agree with most of ur points but u cant put beitashour in the same category as omid nazari! cmon dooste aziz!

[hzv]

lol baba every body is right in this thread...those against and those for. the only thing that is debatable is which is better ipl or mls. i saw a couple mls games this year and i thought the level was higher than what i expected but my girlfriend also saw an mls game and she said their level was very low. however i believe if all the teams in ipl played all the teams in mls that ipl would come out on top. however i would like to strongly disagree with people who say: heydari is not good,montazeri is best option in that position,pejman nouri is not a good player,nazari was not good enough...the rest of the arguments are pretty much valid and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Camran khan]

Sharmandeh mikoni Camran Khan Exactly my point. But some guys are too narrow minded TBH and I won't loose my time convincing anyone on the internet forum.

We are obviously idiots because we believe some players who get more playing time than others who compete for the same position are better than the one who is mostly benched.. duh
And there is no denying that Iranians are khareji parast, Rugs you posted about this yourself in the general forum @ the american chinese made peanut butter vs the cheaper yet better Iranian peanut butter .

[Z Joon]

Zandi360,

I think it's really harsh to say that at least Hasegawa does not bring any contribution to the development of Team Melli. Just being objective and looking at the facts, he is a well known and established J-League player for few years now. He is a regular starter first at FC Tokyo and now Cerezo, two popular clubs in Japan. And J-League isn't some small league in Asia, it's actually one of the best in terms of professionalism, infrastructure and even talent (lots of players have gone from J-League to decent EU leagues).

Because he has been raised in such environment he would be beneficial for Iran. He is not our saviour but he would be useful and do a honest job. He has good vision, has some great assists from time to time and is an all-round midfielder which we will need when the aged midfielders will retire. Some will say that he should not even be considered because he is not good enough for Japan-B..thats because their midfield is damn crowded with way more talented players than him, which doesn't says he is not good enough.


Nazari is another story, though.

No problem with having him tried out with TM, it will maybe bring more depth. But my point is that we cannot base ourselves on these guys. If I had to choose the WC squad, I would have given Khalatbari's place for example instead of Beitashour by a good mile. I prefer having our local talents being exposed in international games than already past-their-peak 2rageh players such as Hasegawa, Beitashour ect.. (although Beitashour is younger than our best RB's, so in the future we might as well have no other options than to start him) I would definitely choose Sadeghian, Mosalman or Sharifi over Hasegawa if I had the choice, just for the sake of the long term goals. But yeah depth is also important so like we tried with all the last 2rageh players, we might as well try out Hasegawa. I however repeat that I would choose young IPL talents over him if I had the choice.

[Camran khan]

see i agree 100% with your post! i was a supporter and a fan of davari. i still am but now i can say i was wrong and we do have better keepers! haghighi one and yes the young beirnavand. ur 100% right when u say just cause u were born and played in Europe doesnt make u better than ipl players! yes but, beitashour has proved himself in MLS, getting voted the best right back in the MLS and having played for the MLS all stars against chelsea isnt enough? being invited to the USMNT for his great play isnt enough? i agree with most of ur points but u cant put beitashour in the same category as omid nazari! cmon dooste aziz!

Thank you brother. I'm not arguing about Beitashour, he deserves to be in TM, I don't believe he is our best RB, but atleast in the top 3 I can agree, so he deserves to be there, and I'm definitely not putting Beitashour in the same category as Nazari. I'm just arguing in general about PFDC members jizzing in their pants after reading about an Iranian playing in the 7th division of Estonia.. (Harsh example, no need for idiots to comment who believe I was actually literally talking about Estonia)

[Kiarash]

No problem with having him tried out with TM, it will maybe bring more depth. But my point is that we cannot base ourselves on these guys. If I had to choose the WC squad, I would have given Khalatbari's place for example instead of Beitashour by a good mile. I prefer having our local talents being exposed in international games than already past-their-peak 2rageh players such as Hasegawa, Beitashour ect.. I would definitely choose Sadeghian, Mosalman or Sharifi over Hasegawa if I had the choice, just for the sake of the long term goals. But yeah depth is also important so like we tried with all the last 2rageh players, we might as well try out Hasegawa. I however repeat that I would choose young IPL talents over him if I had the choice.

Well...sometimes you have to seek for short-term solutions which will help immediately. And I don't want to sound harsh, but we should not rely too much on the future. The future as we speak, has proven us that players like Sadeghian, Mosalman and Sharifi struggle against the likes of Kyrgyrztan and Vietnam. They had a horrible performance as a team during the Asian Games, how can that be promising? I am sure CQ is thinking this too, therefore he is tempted to invite eligible Iranians abroad. Obviously they have a better understanding of football in its basics overall. Sadeghian may be more talented than Hasegawa, but you can't do anything with talent if you don't maximize it or have attitude problems.

And bro, since when is being 25 past your peak? Hasegawa is exactly in his peak right now. Best time to call him up IMO. Dejagah was 26 when he got called up if I'm not mistaken.

I think we agree that we want the best for TM but just in different ways.

[Camran khan]

Today I Learned that there are a lot of xenophobic fools on PFDC. We get it, Paykan cars are better than Ferraris because they're made in Iran.

Seriously, your opinions are your opinions. You all need to stfu about "facts" about who is better than who. CQ brought Beita and the others for a reason. If the IPL is so full of talent, would he have done this?

Think about the above question. You all need to stop being dumb. Iran produces shit 99% of the time, because of the corruption and ineptitude, but please keep lying to yourselves to feel better. No skin off of my back.

This was honestly the weakest post in this entire thread, using one of the worst analogies I have ever come across. If you are going to make your point, I suggest you use real arguments and use things that actually have anything to do with the case, this way people might take you more seriously, especially in real life.

[Z Joon]

Well...sometimes you have to seek for short-term solutions which will help immediately. And I don't want to sound harsh, but we should not rely too much on the future. The future as we speak, has proven us that players like Sadeghian, Mosalman and Sharifi struggle against the likes of Kyrgyrztan and Vietnam. They had a horrible performance as a team during the Asian Games, how can that be promising? I am sure CQ is thinking this too, therefore he is tempted to invited eligible Iranians abroad. Obviously they have a better understanding of football in its basics overall. Sadeghian may be more talented than Hasegawa, but you can't do anything with talent if you don't maximize it or have attitude problems.

And bro, since when is being 25 past your peak? Hasegawa is exactly in his peak right now. Best time to call him up IMO. Dejagah was 26 when he got called up if I'm not mistaken.

I think we agree that we want the best for TM but just in different ways.

I thought he would be older TBH my bad. You cannot compare Dejagah and Hasegawa's situations though, I would pick a Bundesliga player at any age over even a 24-26 year old JLeague player. Like I said I am not against testing him, I want the best for TM. If he helps us then be it, if he proves to be amazing he should even be a starter.

And you cannot base yourself on couple of losses of the youth team, because this same team also got outstanding results few matches before that competition. The coaching also has to be considered, it is not always about the players.




I repeat one last time, we cannot base ourselves on 2rageh players, simply cannot. The core of the team is and will always be mainly from the IPL based players, because they are much more in numbers and that's the main source of TM and the talent coming from Iran. We have to give more chances to young talented IPL players so they can continue to develop and get a chance in Europe like every other player that got out of the league in the history of our football. Shame on all those saying there is no talent in the IPL. These same guys are leaving excited comments on the threads of Azmoun, Ezzatollahi and Jahanbakhsh but come here and write some sh*t like that.

[Camran khan]

I thought he would be older TBH my bad. You cannot compare Dejagah and Hasegawa's situations though, I would pick a Bundesliga player at any age over even a 24-26 year old JLeague player. Like I said I am not against testing him, I want the best for TM. If he helps us then be it, if he proves to be amazing he should even be a starter.

And you cannot base yourself on couple of losses of the youth team, because this same team also got outstanding results few matches before that competition. The coaching also has to be considered, it is not always about the players.




I repeat one last time, we cannot base ourselves on 2rageh players, simply cannot. The core of the team is and will always be mainly from the IPL based players, because they are much more in numbers and that's the main source of TM and the talent coming from Iran. We have to give more chances to young talented IPL players so they can continue to shine. Shame on all those saying there is no talent in the IPL. These same guys are leaving excited comments on the threads of Azmoun, Ezzatollahi and Jahanbakhsh but come here and write some sh*t like that.

Spot on bro. Especially about the u23 teams results. The same team kicked ass less than a year ago under Mansourian..Do people here honestly believe that the quality of those players have gone from beating Turkey and South Korea, kicking ass in the IPL and ACL (Sharifi), u22 AC (K.Rezaei), to a level lower than Vietnamese and Kusayriqwyrowqstan players? That's an odd turn