Steven Beitashour @ Vancouver Whitecaps | 2014-2015 - NEW

[Kiarash]

I thought he would be older TBH my bad. You cannot compare Dejagah and Hasegawa's situations though, I would pick a Bundesliga player at any age over even a 24-26 year old JLeague player. Like I said I am not against testing him, I want the best for TM. If he helps us then be it, if he proves to be amazing he should even be a starter.

And you cannot base yourself on couple of losses of the youth team, because this same team also got outstanding results few matches before that competition. The coaching also has to be considered, it is not always about the players.




I repeat one last time, we cannot base ourselves on 2rageh players, simply cannot. The core of the team is and will always be mainly from the IPL based players, because they are much more in numbers and that's the main source of TM and the talent coming from Iran. We have to give more chances to young talented IPL players so they can continue to develop and get a chance in Europe like every other player that got out of the league in the history of our football. Shame on all those saying there is no talent in the IPL. These same guys are leaving excited comments on the threads of Azmoun, Ezzatollahi and Jahanbakhsh but come here and write some sh*t like that.

Honestly players like Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh and Saeid barely played any games in IPL. Therefore I don't see them as products of IPL but rather individual standouts. They were scouted by their clubs during youth tournaments and thats how they made Europe. an IPL player straight to Europe is not very common nowadays.

[Camran khan]

Honestly players like Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh and Saeid barely played any games in IPL. Therefore I don't see them as products of IPL but rather individual standouts. They were scouted by their clubs during youth tournaments and thats how they made Europe. an IPL player straight to Europe is not very common nowadays.

But where did they learn to play? On the streets of Iran, and in their clubs, in both games, and trainings. Besides, Ezzatollahi played his fair share of games for his age, about 20 I believe in the past 2 seasons. And Jahanbakhsh played a lot of games for Damash. So your arguments are invalid, except for Azmoun, who I believe didn't play a single game in the IPL. But he is still a product (all 3 of them) of Iranian football.

[Kiarash]

But where did they learn to play? On the streets of Iran, and in their clubs, in both games, and trainings. Besides, Ezzatollahi played his fair share of games for his age, about 20 I believe in the past 2 seasons. And Jahanbakhsh played a lot of games for Damash. So your arguments are invalid, except for Azmoun, who I believe didn't play a single game in the IPL. But he is still a product (all 3 of them) of Iranian football.

Bro, JB played for Damash one entire season in Azadegan League and only few games in IPL..what I try to say is that he was discovered during a youth tournament. He probably was already talented back then, playing for Damash or in IPL did not add anything to the fact. He simply already had it, just like Saeid. I just have a hard time believing there are foreign scouts all over IPL to track players.

My definition of producing talent is adding major improvement to their development. IPL does not, while a league like Eredivisie does. Look at how good Jahanbakhsh already is compared to last season.

[Z Joon]

Honestly players like Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh and Saeid barely played any games in IPL. Therefore I don't see them as products of IPL but rather individual standouts. They were scouted by their clubs during youth tournaments and thats how they made Europe. an IPL player straight to Europe is not very common nowadays.

They have been created by IPL clubs. They were formed in their academies. Individual standouts or not, they came from the league therefore product of the IPL. Just like Ali Daei, Azizi, Abedzadeh who never played outside the IPL, Bagheri, Mahdavikia, Karimi and the list goes on and on. In addition to that, scouts rarely watch our football due to the sanctions and whatnot, therefore these players were all noticed when playing in our youth teams.

You can twist it however you want and think as much as you want to find anything but these are not the only examples, and these players are product of the Iranian teams academies.

[Camran khan]

Bro, JB played for Damash one entire season in Azadegan League and only few games in IPL..what I try to say is that he was discovered during a youth tournament. He probably was already talented back then, playing for Damash or in IPL did not add anything to the fact. He simply already had it, just like Saeid. I just have a hard time believing there are foreign scouts all over IPL to track players.

I don't believe either that the IPL has scouts checking our league on a daily basis. But if there is a lot of hype on a player, they probably check him out. Besides, like I said, main point was that they are products of Iranian football, they learnt to kick the ball in Iran, not the amount of minutes they got to play in the IPL.

[Kiarash]

I don't believe either that the IPL has scouts checking our league on a daily basis. But if there is a lot of hype on a player, they probably check him out. Besides, like I said, main point was that they are products of Iranian football, they learnt to kick the ball in Iran, not the amount of minutes they got to play in the IPL.

They have been created by IPL clubs. They were formed in their academies. Individual standouts or not, they came from the league therefore product of the IPL. Just like Ali Daei, Azizi, Abedzadeh who never played outside the IPL, Bagheri, Mahdavikia, Karimi and the list goes on and on. In addition to that, scouts rarely watch our football due to the sanctions and whatnot, therefore these players were all noticed when playing in our youth teams.

You can twist it however you want and think as much as you want to find anything but these are not the only examples, and these players are product of the Iranian teams academies.

Fair and square lads, at least we can have a decent discussion without personal attacks being thrown everywhere

[Ghermez Agha]

I think everyone here is bringing up good and valid points, I'm yet to see kiarash, rugs, Sadat abad, zandi, or carman say anything that can strongly be argued....it's just a difference of opinion at the end of the day.

Good discussion!

[Afat11]

This was honestly the weakest post in this entire thread, using one of the worst analogies I have ever come across. If you are going to make your point, I suggest you use real arguments and use things that actually have anything to do with the case, this way people might take you more seriously, especially in real life.

I won't fight with you Camran, you're never wrong about anything

You never just spout your opinions and hold them out as fact. Never. Even about my post, you try to make it some kind of doodool measuring competition. Your posts are garbage a lot in my opinion, but that's my opinion.

This argument is dumb, which is why my post was short and off topic, to avoid continuing the "no, IPL is better, no MLS, no IPL."

This is a childish argument, but if you think you are a wise man beyond your years for measuring your doodools over it, then fine. Go ahead. Keep wasting time. TM is run by CQ, so all of our opinions (yes, even mine) are garbage in comparison. So stop bickering about this dumb shit. It doesn't matter. CQ will find and play the best players. If he plays some 2 ragh players and you don't like it, support another team. Maybe the Hitler youth club would be good for some of you.

[Camran khan]

Lol another useless post. You are arguing with yourself, not me. I just want the best to represent TM, not sure qhy you think it has anything to do with having something against "do rageh" players.Please start reading my posts before arguing with me.I never even claimed that any of the leagues are betrer than the other one, stop embarrasing yourself.

I won't fight with you Camran, you're never wrong about anything

You never just spout your opinions and hold them out as fact. Never. Even about my post, you try to make it some kind of doodool measuring competition. Your posts are garbage a lot in my opinion, but that's my opinion.

This argument is dumb, which is why my post was short and off topic, to avoid continuing the "no, IPL is better, no MLS, no IPL."

This is a childish argument, but if you think you are a wise man beyond your years for measuring your doodools over it, then fine. Go ahead. Keep wasting time. TM is run by CQ, so all of our opinions (yes, even mine) are garbage in comparison. So stop bickering about this dumb shit. It doesn't matter. CQ will find and play the best players. If he plays some 2 ragh players and you don't like it, support another team. Maybe the Hitler youth club would be good for some of you.

[Afat11]

Lol another useless post. You are arguing with yourself, not me. I just want the best to represent TM, not sure qhy you think it has anything to do with having something against "do rageh" players.Please start reading my posts before arguing with me.I never even claimed that any of the leagues are betrer than the other one, stop embarrasing yourself.

Read my post again, Camran. I didn't say YOUR argument is dumb, I said this argument is dumb. Order of operations for the mentally feeble on the boards:

1.) My post mocking this thread.
2.) You respond to me with an insult (a poor one at that).
3.) I acknowledge your post, and say that this argument in general is stupid.
4.) Your brain stops for a few minutes.
5.) It returns.
6.) You read it as me saying your argument is stupid.
7.) You waste our time.

Thanks Camran for your attempt at degrading me and my intelligence (which I lol at), but you should read a little before you tell others to read. Shows your brilliance sir.

Camran-Khan. I hope you only got your Hajj from going to Mecca, and not for being a Mohandes or Professor. I'd feel bad for your students/pupils. Basic logic seems to escape you.

This was honestly the weakest post in this entire thread, using one of the worst analogies I have ever come across. If you are going to make your point, I suggest you use real arguments and use things that actually have anything to do with the case, this way people might take you more seriously, especially in real life.

This has gotten personal with insults between the both of us, and I will cut it off here. I do not enjoy bickering. For those who think I am being rude or anything to Camran, please note his above statement to me. I did not insult him personally on this board. He chose to do that, not me. He wanted a war of words, I did not.

[KC McElroy]

Clearly Camran khan won this debate.

[Camran khan]

Read my post again, Camran. I didn't say YOUR argument is dumb, I said this argument is dumb. Order of operations for the mentally feeble on the boards:
1.) My post mocking this thread.
2.) You respond to me with an insult (a poor one at that).
3.) I acknowledge your post, and say that this argument in general is stupid.
4.) Your brain stops for a few minutes.
5.) It returns.
6.) You read it as me saying your argument is stupid.
7.) You waste our time.
Thanks Camran for your attempt at degrading me and my intelligence (which I lol at), but you should read a little before you tell others to read. Shows your brilliance sir.
Camran-Khan. I hope you only got your Hajj from going to Mecca, and not for being a Mohandes or Professor. I'd feel bad for your students/pupils. Basic logic seems to escape you.

This has gotten personal with insults between the both of us, and I will cut it off here. I do not enjoy bickering. For those who think I am being rude or anything to Camran, please note his above statement to me. I did not insult him personally on this board. He chose to do that, not me. He wanted a war of words, I did not.

You mocked some people's reasoning on this forum, and you call them dumb, and it was not even done properly, but you threw in accusations that you made up by yourself. And you are hurt by me pointing out that you made a very very weak argument? Aw, I'm sorry, didn't know you were so sensitive.
I wouldn't call what I posted an insult, but if you feel insulted, too bad.
And feel free to insult me, I don't care, if it is out of hand, the mods will take care of it, but don't claim that I started it..
Please, for the love of god, stop embarrassing yourself!
Besides, @ the bolded parts, completely irrelevant...
If you are going to bother responding to this post, please, try to stay on topic, don't start babbling about Peykan vs Ferrari or whether or not I'm a mohandes, Professor or if I've been to Mecca.

Clearly Camran khan won this debate.

Thank you, having it confirmed by someone who attended Sharif University is truly heartwarming.

[Afat11]

You mocked some people's reasoning on this forum, and you call them dumb, and it was not even done properly, but you threw in accusations that you made up by yourself. And you are hurt by me pointing out that you made a very very weak argument? Aw, I'm sorry, didn't know you were so sensitive.
I wouldn't call what I posted an insult, but if you feel insulted, too bad.
And feel free to insult me, I don't care, if it is out of hand, the mods will take care of it, but don't claim that I started it..
Please, for the love of god, stop embarrassing yourself!
Besides, @ the bolded parts, completely irrelevant...
If you are going to bother responding to this post, please, try to stay on topic, don't start babbling about Peykan vs Ferrari or whether or not I'm a mohandes, Professor or if I've been to Mecca.
Thank you, having it confirmed by someone who attended Sharif University is truly heartwarming.

Haha, sure... I'm sensitive. Thanks for responding to everything I say immediately, Mr. Thick Skin.
I'll leave it at that.
2pklzs1.jpg

[Camran khan]

Haha, sure... I'm sensitive. Thanks for responding to everything I say immediately, Mr. Thick Skin.
I'll leave it at that.
[ATTACH]15148[/ATTACH]

[rugs]

No problem rugs jan, I willl answer to all your points, no hay ningun problema.
1. Not my point. PFDC acts as if any player in Europe even if it's Slovakia's 3rd division, is better than any IPL players. I would quote most of the guys here to prove my point, but unfortunately I do not have this time.
2. 100% agreed. But talent is there, and people here are still arguing against that. A talented and skilled player stays a good player, I would choose him over a less skilled player.
3. Like in every country they got out to progress. Still: products of the IPL, coming from the IPL.
4. Same way that if Davari with the same abilities was playing in the IPL, no one would freak out. Also I credit much more a player that comes out of a league from a corrupt and broken like Iran, and goes to a Bundesliga team, than if a player is just born in Germany and builds his future from there. So yes I would freak out if Beiranvand would go to a BuLi team, and I understand anyone that would too.
5. I am not, this is my opinion, and for me Sadeghian is better than Hasegawa, if our country name was Japan, Mosalman and Sadeghian would be playing in top leagues like all of the alaki Korean players of the moment. Besides, I can name many players that have much more discipline issues than Sadeghian but are still playing top European football, or at least in a good league.
6. I have absolutely no bias and prefer mostly players that are actually not sorkhabi. I was just citing the popular names to make my point.
"Those same players you named you would not be getting any mention here if they did not make it abroad. So it's not so strange for people to focus attention on those who have already made it abroad."
I think they would still, because they are talented. Those same players from the European leagues such as Davari, Beitashour, Nazari would also not be getting any mention here if they did not play in Europe and played in IPL.
They made it abroad from the IPL, which shows that like our history demonstrates, most of our legendary players were product of the IPL, so history will repeat itself and this will not change. The arrival of Nazari or Hasegawa will not improve the team, the developpment of our IPL talent such as Sharifi, Sadeghian, Rahmani ect.. will.

1. I haven't seen that. People will bring up players in different leagues and at most suggest that they should have a shot at TM. Like Atashkadeh or Shapourzadeh. I don't see anyone saying these players belong in TM. And they play in a much higher league than Slovakia's 3rd division. People say the same about IPL players too all the time, so I don't see how it is any more strange when they player plays abroad.

2. I disagree that a talented and skilled player remains a good player. Just look at Rahmati. If not then look at Nikbakht, Zare, Madanchi, Kazemian..... and the list goes on an on.

3. Again I disagree. You can say they are products of Iran, but the Nekounam we know is a product of La Liga, not IPL. Azmoun is a product of the Russian league. Jahanbaksh is a product of the Dutch league. These leagues allowed these players to define themselves and advance. If they stayed in the IPL, they would be like the names I already mentioned.

4. Then you are ignoring the integrity of the foreign leagues. Nothing should be taken away from Davari because he was born in Germany. He still had to compete against other keepers. And people do freak out about IPL keepers like Lak for example. I myself freak out about Beiranvand and think he is great.

5. That's your opinion. But the fact is, Sadeghian is not playing in a top league and has discipline issues. When he gets to a top league then we can talk about ignoring those issues. Our country is Iran and we have players playing in good leagues. If Sadeghian wanted to I'm sure he could easily work hard and follow the likes of Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Ezzatollahi, etc... But maybe he prefers to stay in Iran and be an IPL celebrity instead. But again, this is all a matter of opinion.

6. I say what I said before, those players are a product of Iran, not IPL. They are a product of the leagues they came up in. Products of the IPL are: Nikbakht, Kazemian, Enayati, Rajabzadeh, etc...

I think you should look at it from this perspective: the players abroad, like Davari and Beita were good enough to play in the leagues they are playing in. That statement alone should suffice as we never say things like "Jahanbakhksh was definitely good enough to play in the IPL"... But we do say "Jahanbakhsh is definitely good enough to play in the Dutch league".

How do you know our team will not improve with Nazari or Hasegawa or any other player out there? Even I don't say our team will not improve with Sadeghia. Who knows maybe it will. However we can use present examples to show that the presence of foreign based players has not hurt our youth and has even improved it. I believe is CQ didn't put so much stress on foreign leagues, players like Ezzatollahi and Jahanbakhsh would not have moved.