Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

[Darloc]

You call that contributing ? Face it, your boy Shojai hasnt done any $hit for TM for years now.

[OFFSIDE_1]

One needs to question the coach, rather than abuse shojaei (God knows he deserves it though, for his screwed up decision making process). As long as the coach keeps putting him in the team, he WILL comply. Who doesn't want to be a part of one's nat'l team?
So CW's decision making needs to be criticized for using such a washed up, slow, error prone player whose last string of TWO (am not asking for much) good games goes back to 3 or 4 years back!

success rate of decisions is measured through results and results only.

Iran has beaten S. Korea 3 times under CQ.

1. in Tehran with 10 men
2. in Korea under heavy pressure
3. in Tehran against a team that came in with their A team and came in for revenge and did not substitute any players until the end of the game. Meanwhile, TM even brought in 19 year old players and other subs just to give them some fun experience.

This TM has bought into CQ's system. They are confident and feel they can beat any team in the world, including Argentina. It shows in the way they approach the game and it shows in the results.

[hzv]

shojaei is among the main players of team melli, he is not number 11 waiting to be replaced he is in top 3-4 players in our team. watch argentina, bosnia in world cup he is one of the very few in our team that can still take on defenders. if he came back to ipl then we would see his level. he plays with gheyrat as well.


there is some major "group think" going on in pfdc and shojaei is a fine example of this group think hell sometimes it is too obvious and shojaei bashing will go on and on for 45 minutes after he was subbed.


it also has to be understood that he plays in a position and a role where pass completion percentage is a lot lower than a defender or a midfielder. if he completed all those passes (or any player in his position) there would be 10 goals scored instead of just 1.

[arash123]

shojaei is among the main players of team melli, he is not number 11 waiting to be replaced he is in top 3-4 players in our team. watch argentina, bosnia in world cup he is one of the very few in our team that can still take on defenders. if he came back to ipl then we would see his level. he plays with gheyrat as well.


there are some major "group think" going on in pfdc and shojaei is a fine example of this group think hell sometimes it is too obvious and shojaei bashing will go on and on for 45 minutes after he was subbed.


it also has to be understood that he plays in a position and a role where pass completion percentage is a lot lower than a defender or a midfielder. if he completed all those passes (or any player in his position) there would be 10 goals scored instead of just 1.

I understand your point, but Shojaei has HUGE blunders where he used to shine (dribbling, keeping possession, passing) that are frustrating to watch. During WC, I came on to PFDC to complain about his performance against Nigeria, not knowing half the members saw the same thing. I personally think our play was MUCH better once he was subbed off against Korea.

[Doctor DOOM]

There are a couple of logical fallacies in your post. Let me help you to see them:
1) You say people here do not like Shojaei. Yes, that is indeed the case. From that, you infer that Shojaei must be a bad player. No, that is wrong. You cannot prove your point by resorting to the fact that you and others do not like him. That's tautological. Just because you and others here think he is a bad player, that does not make him a bad player. In fact, that you and others do not like him bolsters my argument that you and others have preconceptions that cloud your judgment. Again, the fact that you and others do not like him supports my argument, not yours.
2) You say Shojaei is slow, indecisive etc. Again, that might be true, but that is completely besides the point. The point is actually whether there is an Iranian player in his position that would be better than him. Unless you name one, Shojaei can be the worst Iranian player this world has seen, he would still be a legitimate starter for Team Melli. It's about relative quality, not absolute quality. Relative to other Iranian players in his position.

Well, your first point makes it out as if people who criticize him do it based on some PERSONAL vendetta. Absolutely false. They do it based on the very valid and relevant issue of PERFORMANCES of his.
And that's not just based on a game or two or 10. It's borne it of a long, long , loooong period of pitiful displays.



Your second point also can be easily answered .... of we put aside what's ''on paper'' or any ''name based'' preferences. At the moment, given CQ's preferred counterattacking strategies, guys like Khalatbari, Rafiei, Sadeghian, ... fit perfectly into the picture. And once Rahmani comes back, he can outperform not only shojaei, but even the above mentioned names too.
These chaps bring what shojaei simply fails to bring to CQ's tactics: pace, energy, high rate of correct passes, ...


The problem is Iranian fans just can't get rid of the ''played in Spain'' fog that prevents them to see how pathetically he performs (in the past couple or more years).

[sirvan]

There are a couple of logical fallacies in your post. Let me help you to see them:
1) You say people here do not like Shojaei. Yes, that is indeed the case. From that, you infer that Shojaei must be a bad player. No, that is wrong. You cannot prove your point by resorting to the fact that you and others do not like him. That's tautological. Just because you and others here think he is a bad player, that does not make him a bad player. In fact, that you and others do not like him bolsters my argument that you and others have preconceptions that cloud your judgment. Again, the fact that you and others do not like him supports my argument, not yours.
2) You say Shojaei is slow, indecisive etc. Again, that might be true, but that is completely besides the point. The point is actually whether there is an Iranian player in his position that would be better than him. Unless you name one, Shojaei can be the worst Iranian player this world has seen, he would still be a legitimate starter for Team Melli. It's about relative quality, not absolute quality. Relative to other Iranian players in his position.

Sadeghian, Khalatbari, Dejagah and Azmoun are much better than Shojaei, they fit CQ's style of play much better, this is the number 10 position, we need to have the best player not the 6th or 7 th option, which is what Shojaei is. He lacks the creativity, vision, pace, decision making of a classical number 10. In order to succeed we need to bring out the best of our potential.

[Doctor DOOM]

success rate of decisions is measured through results and results only.
Iran has beaten S. Korea 3 times under CQ.
1. in Tehran with 10 men
2. in Korea under heavy pressure
3. in Tehran against a team that came in with their A team and came in for revenge and did not substitute any players until the end of the game. Meanwhile, TM even brought in 19 year old players and other subs just to give them some fun experience.
This TM has bought into CQ's system. They are confident and feel they can beat any team in the world, including Argentina. It shows in the way they approach the game and it shows in the results.

Not that this post is addressing the issue I brought up, but if you insist. Then by your logic GN must be far superior to CQ as he had far better stats at TM than CQ in terms of ''results''.

But will you accept that? Of course not. Neither would I think he is better than CQ. So lets do away with superficial diversions of merely looking at ''scorelines''. We all know very well some of those wins came with a truckload of luck for us and a huge number of missed chances for the opponents.
So lets get serious and dig deeper a bit



But at the end of the day any one of us can think whatever we want. Even to think shojaei is a quick footed, highly energetic, physical player who puts the likes of xavi to shame with his precision passing. And that's fine too. But we shouldn't expect people to buy onto this theory.
Especially when he increasingly is failing to do what he used to do with ease 3-4 years back, which is dribbling and passing. His pace? Well, the less said about it the better. But at least let us have the fortitude to acknowledge CQ's counterattacking tactics depends heavily on PACE.

[ramingeles2000]

Not that this post is addressing the issue I brought up, but if you insist. Then by your logic GN must be far superior to CQ as he had far better stats at TM than CQ in terms of ''results''.
But will you accept that? Of course not. Neither would I think he is better than CQ. So lets do away with superficial diversions of merely looking at ''scorelines''. We all know very well some of those wins came with a truckload of luck for us and a huge number of missed chances for the opponents.
So lets get serious and dig deeper a bit
But at the end of the day any one of us can think whatever we want. Even to think shojaei is a quick footed, highly energetic, physical player who puts the likes of xavi to shame with his precision passing. And that's fine too. But we shouldn't expect people to buy onto this theory.
Especially when he increasingly is failing to do what he used to do with ease 3-4 years back, which is dribbling and passing. His pace? Well, the less said about it the better. But at least let us have the fortitude to acknowledge CQ's counterattacking tactics depends heavily on PACE.

I'm going to hope you don't actually subscribe to the twisted "logic" you applied above. What the member you quoted meant, was "results in games that matter". And under CQ, we have had 3 sets of "games that matter":

1) Asian Cup Qualification --> we qualified easily
2) World Cup Qualification --> we qualifeid top of our group and beat SK twice
3) World Cup --> we had a respectful performance...with a smidgeon of luck we could have beat Argentina and Nigeria. Up until the last day, we could have qualified.

And all this with a team facing a major talent drought. Compare this to Ghalenoi, who lost to South Korea with one of our most star-studded teams in recent history.

I guess that when you begin every post, every analysis, with your conclusion already pre-determined, these types of logical lapses are to be expected.

CQ is playing the only strategy he can given our personnel. And it's yielded results. I will agree that it's not easy to watch, but I'll also say that TM has been awful to watch since Blazevich. It's as if you're comparing TM of today to a TM of "back when" when they played like Barcelona.

[Ali.Karimi79]

Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

The problem is that you are biased in your assessment. Shojaei had an average performance. He was neither better nor worse than other players. Your judgment is clouded by your beliefs and assumptions. Simple as that.

Baba jan, I explained it step by step using objective logics and common sense and your reply is that I am biased?!
Jamesh kon baba!

What makes you think I am biased?

The fact that I focus on his performance?! Of course I do. Every one here does. We are aware of his poor performance. It's absolutely legit to watch him carefully and judge his performance.
And in my option he was indeed the worst player on the pitch. And not only this game but almost all fucking games he played in recent years. Fucking years!!

I just hope CQ started him to fool everyone including us and starts someone faster and younger in Australia.

[Ando Teymourian]

Baba jan, I explained it step by step using objective logics and common sense and your reply is that I am biased?!
Jamesh kon baba!

What makes you think I am biased?

The fact that I focus on his performance?! Of course I do. Every one here does. We are aware of his poor performance. It's absolutely legit to watch him carefully and judge his performance.
And in my option he was indeed the worst player on the pitch. And not only this game but almost all fucking games he played in recent years. Fucking years!!

I just hope CQ started him to fool everyone including us and starts someone faster and younger in Australia.

But you didn't really.. You just said Shojaei made so many mistakes... and before I watched the game I read the match thread and cringed because i thought Masoud was embarrassing himself. Then I watched the game and realised it was a huge over reaction.

Again you said Masoud made lots of mistakes. Can you list 5 of them? And when I say 5, I mean 5 that are glaring... because every player in that game made 5 little mistakes probably. So please, 5 mistakes by Masoud that don't usually occur in the course of the game by all players. The big one of course was the trip up over the ball that ruined our counter attack. So can you give me 4 more?? Because the amount of people shitting their pants in the match thread made it seem like Masoud was terrible on every other touch of the ball.

[Ali.Karimi79]

Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

But you didn't really.. You just said Shojaei made so many mistakes... and before I watched the game I read the match thread and cringed because i thought Masoud was embarrassing himself. Then I watched the game and realised it was a huge over reaction.

Again you said Masoud made lots of mistakes. Can you list 5 of them? And when I say 5, I mean 5 that are glaring... because every player in that game made 5 little mistakes probably. So please, 5 mistakes by Masoud that don't usually occur in the course of the game by all players. The big one of course was the trip up over the ball that ruined our counter attack. So can you give me 4 more?? Because the amount of people shitting their pants in the match thread made it seem like Masoud was terrible on every other touch of the ball.

Dadash please for the sake of common sense......what is this nonsense with 5 mistakes?!
No I won't watch the game again and make a highlight video of 5 mistakes just to answer you.

And yes of course, shojaei embarrassed himself.
Considering the position and particularly the task he was given, made more than just 5 mistakes.
You consider a slip/trip or a failed cross as mistake.
I consider his positioning, vision, game play, ball control, accuracy, pace and speed as mistake.

No one is shitting his pants. It's his overall performance.
You watched the game and came to the conclusion that he was ok or whatever. Others here came to the same conclusion like after most of his games= poor performance.

There is a reason why we win games as soon as he is subbed out.

You fellows who keep defending him, do you really think we enjoy watching him to play that shit? I remember games for osasuna where he dribbled the entire defense of Hercules in copa del Ray scoring from an impossible angle. It was awesome.
And many other brilliant games for his clubs.
We want this shojaei, got it?!

He is capable to perform much much better. At least he was capable. That's why there is a certain level of expectations regarding him.

[ali alipour]

Soroush rafiei would be the logical choice to replace shojaei but his height puts him at a defensive disadvantage. Seeing as queiroz is a defensive coach shojaei will probably unfortunately be the starter in the asian cup as he brings the most defense out of the am's

[Ando Teymourian]

Dadash please for the sake of common sense......what is this nonsense with 5 mistakes?!
No I won't watch the game again and make a highlight video of 5 mistakes just to answer you.

And yes of course, shojaei embarrassed himself.
Considering the position and particularly the task he was given, made more than just 5 mistakes.
You consider a slip/trip or a failed cross as mistake.
I consider his positioning, vision, game play, ball control, accuracy, pace and speed as mistake.

No one is shitting his pants. It's his overall performance.
You watched the game and came to the conclusion that he was ok or whatever. Others here came to the same conclusion like after most of his games= poor performance.

There is a reason why we win games as soon as he is subbed out.

You fellows who keep defending him, do you really think we enjoy watching him to play that shit? I remember games for osasuna where he dribbled the entire defense of Hercules in copa del Ray scoring from an impossible angle. It was awesome.
And many other brilliant games for his clubs.
We want this shojaei, got it?!

He is capable to perform much much better. At least he was capable. That's why there is a certain level of expectations regarding him.

No one disagrees that he is capable of much much much better. Shojaei is a shadow of his former self. HOWEVER, I still think being the shell of what he once was, he is not hindering the team in any way, and is still capable of changing the course of a game with one play. As someone already mentioned, Shojaei is usually passing forward. Forward passes, especially with our team are way more susceptible to failing.

And the way you were commenting in the match thread, you shouldnt have to go back and re-watch the game to find mistakes. With reactions like yours, those "mistakes" (most of which were imaginary with full respect) should be etched in your brain for 2 weeks lol

[Ali.Karimi79]

Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

No one disagrees that he is capable of much much much better. Shojaei is a shadow of his former self. HOWEVER, I still think being the shell of what he once was, he is not hindering the team in any way, and is still capable of changing the course of a game with one play. As someone already mentioned, Shojaei is usually passing forward. Forward passes, especially with our team are way more susceptible to failing.

And the way you were commenting in the match thread, you shouldnt have to go back and re-watch the game to find mistakes. With reactions like yours, those "mistakes" (most of which were imaginary with full respect) should be etched in your brain for 2 weeks lol

The way I was commentating?! Dafuq!!
Can you please show me what I said in the game thread about shojaei!
I don't recall to say anything about shojaei. I didn't even comment during the game.
After the game I multiple quoted others to prove the pretzel guy wrong who started calling names on others.

Being a shell of yourself is always hindering. Basta.
This is national football team. Being a shell is not enough. For me as a passionate TM fan I don't want shells in TM. I want complete players.
Be 100% ready or get out, train hard and come back when you found yourself.

[DireStraits]

You call that contributing ? Face it, your boy Shojai hasnt done any $hit for TM for years now.

He was the one WHO sent that pass to Dejagah in Argentine game where Zabaleta made that foul on Dejagah. He was the one WHO hits the post in Bosnia gam.
Shojaei should not be given defensive jobs but he is the best play maker we have right
now. He is amoung the few WHO can send som long precise pass.
Contributing is not just dribling every body. In the video I posted he had a good role on 3 goals.