Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

[Doctor DOOM]

^ yes, yes,... that is of we don't ask him to run, or catch up to players. And if the recipient of his passes have nobody around them. And if nobody marks him. And if the defenders don't try to be totally unfair by actually physically challenging him. And if he is allowed minimum 7 meters of space to do his dribbles. And if in sprints, we gove him a Headstart of at least 4 seconds before his marker starts his run. And .... , then yes. He will be extremely effective.




Ok. Since this thread has taken a turn into ''shojaei based'' one, let nstead of the actual game, use the following poll/thread on shojaei

http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...-to-TM-and-why

[OFFSIDE_1]

Not that this post is addressing the issue I brought up, but if you insist. Then by your logic GN must be far superior to CQ as he had far better stats at TM than CQ in terms of ''results''.

But will you accept that? Of course not. Neither would I think he is better than CQ. So lets do away with superficial diversions of merely looking at ''scorelines''. We all know very well some of those wins came with a truckload of luck for us and a huge number of missed chances for the opponents.
So lets get serious and dig deeper a bit



But at the end of the day any one of us can think whatever we want. Even to think shojaei is a quick footed, highly energetic, physical player who puts the likes of xavi to shame with his precision passing. And that's fine too. But we shouldn't expect people to buy onto this theory.
Especially when he increasingly is failing to do what he used to do with ease 3-4 years back, which is dribbling and passing. His pace? Well, the less said about it the better. But at least let us have the fortitude to acknowledge CQ's counterattacking tactics depends heavily on PACE.

GN had "far better" stats with TM than CQ ??? seems like the state of colorado has been way to liberal with their smoking laws .... GN was tossed out after that pathetic AC tournament. You do realize we lost to S. Korea, something that CQ has yet to do.

[Doctor DOOM]

GN had "far better" stats with TM than CQ ??? seems like the state of colorado has been way to liberal with their smoking laws .... GN was tossed out after that pathetic AC tournament. You do realize we lost to S. Korea, something that CQ has yet to do.

lol.

Do read your post and tell me of there is any relation between ''success rate'' and a specific match up.
I don't see any. Because the stats of GN still trumps CQ's.

Next, even if we bring up specific match ups. Well someone may bring up the first ever goal conceded, loss of points and loss to Asian minnows like Lebanon.


If we bring up superficial issues like the score line only, then CQ is very inferior to the likes of Talebi at the world cup. At best, he may be on par with Mohajerani. But even then he is inferior. Since Mohajerani's team scored more goals.


So instead of zooming in on the score line, it is better to consider the quality of the performance. Factors like luck, bad finishing of opponents, ... all do impact such games that only shadow a team's excellent or miserable performance

[FeLFeL]

Ashkan and Gucci played well, I am very glad we have them. Jahanbakhsh and Sardar are much needed additions, Sardar should start as well I think like Jahanbakhsh now. He needs to start racking up some caps. He deserves it.

Shojaie is killing me. That's all. He has been slowly doing that for awhile now apart from two nice dribbles against Argentina, his game has been deteriorating since he relies on dribbling people a lot which requires speed. Those legs definitely have some miles on them by now.

I don't really mind CQ's defensive style all that much. It's not pretty but it has achieved results. I just wish he didn't use it all the time, like against Bosina in the WC; we could have played with a better overall strategy but It's still great not to concede goals. That's the number one goal obviously against better opponents who don't have a crappy league like we do.

[Farhad-7]

success rate of decisions is measured through results and results only.
Iran has beaten S. Korea 3 times under CQ.
1. in Tehran with 10 men
2. in Korea under heavy pressure
3. in Tehran against a team that came in with their A team and came in for revenge and did not substitute any players until the end of the game. Meanwhile, TM even brought in 19 year old players and other subs just to give them some fun experience.
This TM has bought into CQ's system. They are confident and feel they can beat any team in the world, including Argentina. It shows in the way they approach the game and it shows in the results.

I'm going to hope you don't actually subscribe to the twisted "logic" you applied above. What the member you quoted meant, was "results in games that matter". And under CQ, we have had 3 sets of "games that matter":
1) Asian Cup Qualification --> we qualified easily
2) World Cup Qualification --> we qualifeid top of our group and beat SK twice
3) World Cup --> we had a respectful performance...with a smidgeon of luck we could have beat Argentina and Nigeria. Up until the last day, we could have qualified.
And all this with a team facing a major talent drought. Compare this to Ghalenoi, who lost to South Korea with one of our most star-studded teams in recent history.
I guess that when you begin every post, every analysis, with your conclusion already pre-determined, these types of logical lapses are to be expected.
CQ is playing the only strategy he can given our personnel. And it's yielded results. I will agree that it's not easy to watch, but I'll also say that TM has been awful to watch since Blazevich. It's as if you're comparing TM of today to a TM of "back when" when they played like Barcelona.

Quality post lads.

PS: I still don't understand why CQ uses Shojaei to the extent he has. Rafiei played so much better in that short time. Wasn't involved in much but was very mobile and alert unlike Shojaei. We all know what he's capable of from IPL and ACL.

[Lorestani]

Well, your first point makes it out as if people who criticize him do it based on some PERSONAL vendetta. Absolutely false. They do it based on the very valid and relevant issue of PERFORMANCES of his.
And that's not just based on a game or two or 10. It's borne it of a long, long , loooong period of pitiful displays.
Your second point also can be easily answered .... of we put aside what's ''on paper'' or any ''name based'' preferences. At the moment, given CQ's preferred counterattacking strategies, guys like Khalatbari, Rafiei, Sadeghian, ... fit perfectly into the picture. And once Rahmani comes back, he can outperform not only shojaei, but even the above mentioned names too.
These chaps bring what shojaei simply fails to bring to CQ's tactics: pace, energy, high rate of correct passes, ...
The problem is Iranian fans just can't get rid of the ''played in Spain'' fog that prevents them to see how pathetically he performs (in the past couple or more years).

Two points:

1) Regarding your first point, you misrepresent my argument. I do not believe people here criticizing Shojaei have a personal vendetta against him. That would be indeed far-fetched. What I do think, however, is that people here influence each other, reinforcing and amplifying their negative opinions. Once preconceptions are formed based on hearsay rather than objective evidence, they go watch TM games, expecting to see Shojaei fail. And once you have that preconception, it is very easy to find what you have been looking for, disregarding countervailing evidence that would result in a more balanced assessment of his performance. A stupid example: if you have been brainwashed to believe that Arabs are intrinsically bad people, you will take any shred of confirmatory evidence as the final proof, conveniently disregarding evidence pointing into another direction, which, for that matter, is indeed another problem here on this board. But let's not go off-topic.

2) I applaud your effort to come up with alternative players for his position. Doing so, you implicitly concede that the whole issue is about relative quality, not absolute quality, which I think is an important concession we can base our discussion upon. Now, the names you mention are weak counterfactuals unfortunately. Except for Khalatbari, who similar to Shojaei is notorious for slow decision-making on the pitch, the players you mention are novices who have not been tested internationally. Just because Shojaei might be sub-par does not mean that others should in turn be overrated. Once these players prove themselves, they might become viable alternatives, but for now, I do not expect them to perform any better, taking into account the comparatively vast experience Shojaei has. Your logic reminds of something Otto Rehhagel once said after the miserable 1998 World Cup for Germany. Responding to demands of other coaches, self-proclaimed experts and German football fans that young players be integrated into the national team and replace the 1998 losers, he wisely cautioned against elevating everyone to stardom who had not participated in the world cup. Point is, stop overrating supposed saviors of our football when more than half of the players you mention have zero international experience.

[Bi-honar]

But you didn't really.. You just said Shojaei made so many mistakes... and before I watched the game I read the match thread and cringed because i thought Masoud was embarrassing himself. Then I watched the game and realised it was a huge over reaction.

Again you said Masoud made lots of mistakes. Can you list 5 of them? And when I say 5, I mean 5 that are glaring... because every player in that game made 5 little mistakes probably. So please, 5 mistakes by Masoud that don't usually occur in the course of the game by all players. The big one of course was the trip up over the ball that ruined our counter attack. So can you give me 4 more?? Because the amount of people shitting their pants in the match thread made it seem like Masoud was terrible on every other touch of the ball.

Azeez, you make it sound like we had 20 good attacks on Korea's net, Shojaei was involved in all of them and just that one time he tripped up and screwed it up. We only had 4-5 decent attacks on Korea's net (which is what you normally have when you're playing a counter-attacking game), Shojaei was involved in two of them and screwed both of them up! 100% failure rate!

One is where his left foot told his right foot not to eat shit which was coincidentally Iran's best counter-attack of the game and the second one was where he made a mess of a very simple pass to Ashkan (over-passed it) and Ashkan had to go around 3 SK players just to get the ball back and lay it off for a cross to Gucci only to have Shajei blocking Gucci on the cross!!! Gucci of course still made good contact.

And if you look at our defensive plays, 50% of the Korean shots from behind our penalty area were from Shojaei not covering his man, or not blocking the ball with his titish mamani body.

And mistakes aren't just what you do when you have the ball, because 90% of football is positioning and vision off the ball. He just doesn't have that. Both times we have played Korea in Iran, we played 100% better after Shojaei left the field and that's also when we scored.

Here's a better question, for a guy who has been on the field for a total of 200 minutes against Korea in 3 games, why don't you name me 5 good plays from Shjaei. That's 1 play every 40 minutes (almost a half)...

[Ali.Karimi79]

Azeez, you make it sound like we had 20 good attacks on Korea's net, Shojaei was involved in all of them and just that one time he tripped up and screwed it up. We only had 4-5 decent attacks on Korea's net (which is what you normally have when you're playing a counter-attacking game), Shojaei was involved in two of them and screwed both of them up!

One is where his left foot told his right foot not to eat shit which was coincidentally Iran's best counter-attack of the game and the second one was where he made a mess of a very simple pass to Ashkan (over-passed it) and Ashkan had to go around 3 SK players just to get the ball back and lay it off for a cross to Gucci only to have Shajei blocking Gucci on the cross!!! Gucci of course still made good contact.

And if you look at our defensive plays, 50% of the Korean shots from behind our penalty area were from Shojaei not covering his man, or not blocking the ball with his titish mamani body. And mistakes aren't just what you do when you have the ball, because 90% of football is positioning and vision off the ball. He just doesn't have that.

Both times we have played Korea in Iran, we played 100% times better after Shojaei left the field and that's when we scored.

I was about to highlight the parts i wrote myself in my previous post and bold your entire post lol.
EXACTLY MY WORDS!

Couldn't agree more.

at titish mamani.

There is a reason why we win the games as soon as he leaves the pitch.

[Z Joon]

Post-Game --- IRAN - SOUTH KOREA (friendly?!?!?!!)

LOL if you guys think it's only a "PFDC phenomenon" where Masoud is unfairly criticized because of negative opinions influencing each other or whatever, do something for me: go in the streets of Tehran and ask random people's opinions of Masoud Shojaei and come back to me. It will probably open your eyes to the reality.

[saadat_abad]

LOL if you guys think it's only a "PFDC phenomenon" where Masoud is unfairly criticized because of negative opinions influencing each other or whatever, do something for me: go in the streets of Tehran and ask random people's opinions of Masoud Shojaei and come back to me. It will probably open your eyes to the reality.

i dont need to go to iran! i just went to my dads room and asked him, he said "ashghale, vali behtar azash alan nadrim ke experience dashte bashe"

[aryanirani]

Thank you for your comment it made me laugh.

(in a good way) because im so so so tired of shitty Shojaei starting in TM. CQ is really taking this joke to far, it goes to show how weak CQ is mentally...

[sarbaz]

Not only Iranian people but also commentators and football experts have also said publicaly and in the news papers/websites that Shojaie should only be used
as a sub coming in around the 70 th min
thats it
i guess what really bothers me about shojaie is that he is just not in sync with rest of the team and does not seem to wanta gustle or give it all hes got

[MR.S]

/\ and thats max 20 min and as a striker playing as high as possible on the field cause his defence is horrible, giving away dangorous freekicks to our opponents outside our box

[Ali.Karimi79]

Ba ejaze Bi-Honar jan, i changed my signature to your epic last sentence.
Actually very Ba-Honar

[Afat11]

I don't usually agree with all of the Shojaei hate, but the guy really showed in this past game that he doesn't deserve to start. He's not trash, but he doesn't seem to play well against Asian opposition. Crowded defenses mess up his game.

Everyone should realise that the reason that Iran's passing and gameplay in general seems so weak is that we do not have a real Ali Karimi-like playmaker in the team. The reason certain teams are able to keep possession and pass the ball around is that the defenders (who are not expected to be great passers) give the ball to the defensive-mids after they win the ball. Then the defensive mids give the ball to the playmaker (who we do not have) who is supposed to have the vision to dribble the ball, look around the field, and pass it forward, to the wings, or back to the defensive midfielders depending on the pressure. This maintains possession and is what creates real chances in football.

We, on the other hand, just hoof the ball from the defensive line, or from the defensive midfielders up the pitch. This is a bad tactic and makes everyone look bad. Particularly Gucci and Dejagah, who are trying to win the ball from 5 defenders.

I don't blame this poor tactic on CQ. He notices we don't have the creative playmaker in the team, so he has to rely on this style of play. Believe me, if we had Ali Karimi in his prime on our team now, CQ's tactics would be vastly different. Every play would run through that player, and we'd play a lot better.