Still waiting for CQ to convince

[IranFootball10]

THE WAYlady luck must be on hyper drive to ensure the above wish being fulfilled.

Fantastic post Dr. Doom jan! These were exactly my thoughts regarding TM's performances, and it's a breath of fresh air to finally see someone speaking some sense on these forums instead of naively praising CQ and the rest. Unfortunately, most people are blinded by these results, which has masked the problems of TM despite 4 years of being under CQ. The minute the results don't come (God forbid), people will come to realize these flaws. In fact, in the last Asian Cup in 2011, similar things happened until we lost to South Korea and then Ghotbi was thrown under the bus for his overly defensive approach. I'm not a supporter of Ghotbi either, but just pointing out that a majority of people are unable to look past the results and see that we are still completely clueless in attack, even after so many wakeup calls in the past 4 years! The Bosnia match in the WC was the biggest indicator. Sure Bosnia is a great team but as soon as we conceded and needed to attack, it showed that this team has no plan in attack and in fact nothing has changed despite being under a "world class" coach like CQ. Nevertheless, we have been extremely lucky so far to not play Japan, and we might be able to ride our luck all the way to final but once we play a quality opponent, our flaws could be heavily exposed.

[Afat11]

Fantastic post Dr. Doom jan! These were exactly my thoughts regarding TM's performances, and it's a breath of fresh air to finally see someone speaking some sense on these forums instead of naively praising CQ and the rest. Unfortunately, most people are blinded by these results, which has masked the problems of TM despite 4 years of being under CQ. The minute the results don't come (God forbid), people will come to realize these flaws. In fact, in the last Asian Cup in 2011, similar things happened until we lost to South Korea and then Ghotbi was thrown under the bus for his overly defensive approach. I'm not a supporter of Ghotbi either, but just pointing out that a majority of people are unable to look past the results and see that we are still completely clueless in attack, even after so many wakeup calls in the past 4 years! The Bosnia match in the WC was the biggest indicator. Sure Bosnia is a great team but as soon as we conceded and needed to attack, it showed that this team has no plan in attack and in fact nothing has changed despite being under a "world class" coach like CQ. Nevertheless, we have been extremely lucky so far to not play Japan, and we might be able to ride our luck all the way to final but once we play a quality opponent, our flaws could be heavily exposed.

Other than the Bosnia match, and maybe the Uzbekistan match in WCQ (where we were missing players due to injury), can you name where Iran has been thoroughly beaten? Where the tactics have caused us to have a massive failure?

Because I think you guys only have 1 or 2 examples of CQ's tactics failing, and stick to those, because you think defensive tactics are weak.

I can name about 25 matches now where CQ's tactics have won us competitive matches, but you guys only cling to one result.

It's a chicken before the egg. Did you dislike defensive tactics before CQ became coach, or after? It seems that you guys have disliked this playing style even before you have seen it in action.

Please don't compare CQ to Ghotbi, as you know that is meant to just be insulting. Ghotbi was barely a professional coach who could gain his teams respect. Every player in TM respects CQ. There is a reason.

Keep complaining about his tactics though. Despite Dr. Doom's car example having nothing to do with football, I'll give you the same example.

I drive a 2005 BMW, that hasn't had the money put into it to maintain it recently.

I'm going up against a mid-90's Mustang that has put thousands of dollars into it's engine. Despite my lack of maintenance, I use my cars strength, which is sharp turning. I win the race, despite not driving faster than my opponent. I won using my strengths, instead of trying to go at maximum speed and risk blowing out my engine.

This is a better example Dr. Doom. Qatar and UAE are no Kias anymore, and TM is no Audi. The gap is much slimmer than you'd think, because we have NO money or infrastructure for football, while Qatar and UAE are pouring millions into their team.

You can talk crap all you want, but really, you come off as a hater. Us even being able to win games with this poor preparation should say something about CQ. We should be where Saudi Arabia is or worse. The fact that CQ can win games with no support for the team is astonishing, but please GOD PLEASE, BRING BACK MAYELI KOHAN AND DAEI FOR DR. DOOM!!! PLEASE GOD!!! CQ IS CRAPPPPPPPPP!!! HE ONLY PLAYS DEFENSE!!! Seriously, wasting people's breath with your unnecessary comments. Wait until we get eliminated before you all start bitching.

Only an Iranian will complain when things are going well (*cough 1979 revolution *cough). People with Dr. Dooms attitude are why we have mullahs running our country. It sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

[Omids]

Today, I am so delighted and feel like a million bucks. Today I had a race with a Kia in my Audi and just L.O.V.E.D. the fact that despite he beat me to most of the corners (probably I being too scared to use any gear above 3rd may have something to do with that), I finally beat that Kia by a nose at the finish line.
Feel magnificent. just cant fit into my skin.



So what if the Kia was a 1999 model?
what's important is that my Audi A6 beat him by at least a couple of inches.

it just proves I am on Par with Rikonen and Schummy in driving expertise.

What was mahdavi Kia doing in your neighbourhood? You shouldnt have beaten him after all he has done for Iran. :-)

[Doctor DOOM]

@ afat11
Or perhaps it could be because we have so very few match ups against decent opposition. On one hand, the incompetent IFF has consistently failed to get any decent tests for the team. And on the other CQ also has been instrumental in avoiding any strong friendlies.

But on those extremely rare occasions where we have faced strong or decent opponents, our flaws and shortcomings have reared their heads.

The problem is majority of the time, we face and PICK bloody piss poor and easy opponents like Mozambique, Madagascar, Palestine, ... that do not show our loop holes and weaknesses. And if they help beef up our supposed ''unbeaten'' stats ( always useful when we eventually fail in some game) so we can throw about as some sort of ''NUMERICAL'' achievement, then all the better, eh?

[GolfePersique]

our infrastructure/preparation is not even at motor gazi level, forget about BMW and Audi.

Azadi is the only standard football field in a country with 80 million population.
Our clubs constantly defeated by the asian/arab teams.
Legionnaires: arab teams/mediocre/lower division european clubs.
Football management is non-existent.
Youth development: last /no priority.
Our league: amateur(paid professionally)
Let alone funds/sanctions/lack of friendlies, etc.

What CQ has achieved with this group of players is simply amazing, even if we get eliminated.
TM is now a true definition of a team. That's his main achievement.

[Bi-honar]

Other than the Bosnia match, and maybe the Uzbekistan match in WCQ (where we were missing players due to injury), can you name where Iran has been thoroughly beaten? Where the tactics have caused us to have a massive failure?

To be fair to the other side of the argument too Afat jaan, we only lost 1 or 2 games under GN - one being in penalties at the Asian Cup quarters which eventually cost him his job, because of all the media criticism.

So, the media and fans can turn on any coach without a "massive failure". Most fans are happy with CQ's methods so far, because for the moment they seem to be working as far as results.

So, if we're going to argue that it's the results that are important and a 1-0 is as good as a 4-0, the argument will also go the other way, that a 1-0 loss is an equally massive failure as a 4-0.

[Doctor DOOM]

our infrastructure/preparation is not even at motor gazi level, forget about BMW and Audi.

.

And how is Senegal's, or Cameroon's, or Algeria's, or Paraguay's or .... etc

[GolfePersique]

And how is Senegal's, or Cameroon's, or Algeria's, or Paraguay's or .... etc

You can't be serious about that. just have a look at their squad.
Most of their players play in major european/SA leagues.
Senegal squad:
No domestic player
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal...#Current_squad

Paraguay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragua...#Current_squad

Cameroon:
2 domestic players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameroo...#Current_squad

Algeria:
2 domestic players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria...#Current_squad

Majority of the african players are developed in european academies and learned the ABC of modern football.
In my view they are european players representing African nation

[Camran khan]

our infrastructure/preparation is not even at motor gazi level, forget about BMW and Audi.
Azadi is the only standard football field in a country with 80 million population.
Our clubs constantly defeated by the asian/arab teams.
Legionnaires: arab teams/mediocre/lower division european clubs.
Football management is non-existent.
Youth development: last /no priority.
Our league: amateur(paid professionally)
Let alone funds/sanctions/lack of friendlies, etc.
What CQ has achieved with this group of players is simply amazing, even if we get eliminated.
TM is now a true definition of a team. That's his main achievement.

I don't understand.. I love CQ, he is the greatest coach we have probably ever had, but what do you mean what he has achieved is simply amazing? Are you telling me, despite all of the problems you mentioned, our team and players are below the level of the likes of Bahrain, Qatar and UAE? One of the weakest TM's in recent times with Ghotbi as a head coach also got 9 points in the Asian cup group stages. I understand if such comments are made after comparisons with Japan, South Korea and Australia, but we are talking about fvcking Qatar, Bahrain and UAE ffs.. It's not like Bahrain, Qatar and UAE all have great coaches with great players..
I think most of us can agree that he has done a good job so far, but amazing, that is what I would call it after he brings us home the Asian cup
We had a pretty good showing at the world cup, if that is what you mean.

How we played vs Argentina was amazing, being able to advance from a group, needing to beat 2/3 of the teams of Bahrain, Qatar and UAE, with players like Dejagah, Gucci, Jahanbakhsh, Azmoun, Nekounam, Hosseini, Teymourian, Hajsafi, Haghighi, Shojaei, was pretty much expected, considering that 19/23 players in the squad of Bahrain plays in Bahrain.
I don't understand why some people want to make us look even worse than we actually are.

[Z Joon]

I don't understand.. I love CQ, he is the greatest coach we have probably ever had, but what do you mean what he has achieved is simply amazing? Are you telling me, despite all of the problems you mentioned, our team and players are below the level of the likes of Bahrain, Qatar and UAE? One of the weakest TM's in recent times with Ghotbi as a head coach also got 9 points in the Asian cup group stages. I understand if such comments are made after comparisons with Japan, South Korea and Australia, but we are talking about fvcking Qatar, Bahrain and UAE ffs..
We had a pretty good showing at the world cup, if that is what you mean.

People's memory become short all of a sudden, we had no history before CQ. Before CQ, Iranian players did not know how to kick in the ball, nor run.
Carlos came from the sky, and from there he became the prophet, the Iranian prophet. Only then, Iranian players started playing, however, they did not know how to pass the ball and play attacking football. So Queiroz himself, learned the way of defensive football, since it's the only thing Iranian players could learn. The league is amateur, yes, it's amateur. The UAE, Qatar, and Bahrain leagues were professional leagues on the other hand, where players knew how to pass the ball and play attacking football. King Carlos, let me kiss your hand, thanks for helping us.

I tell you bro, IMO after the arrival of Queiroz people have been brainwashed into the fact that anything we achieve is simply amazing and extraordinary, that Iran had no football in the past and that all of the sudden we learned how to play the game, that Carlos is the best thing that happened in our football and that our league is amateur, unable to produce talents.

Teams that were 40 times less talented (AC 2011 squad for instance), thrashed teams like UAE, beat Iraq's golden generation, beat Russia by perfectly stringing passes together and playing attacking football, yes with an entire 95% IPL squad, the "amateur league" that some here like to call. Now people are praising Queiroz like he is god for 91th minute wins against UAE, 1-0 wins against Qatar, and ask not to underestimate Iraq's 3rd tier squad. Iran cannot play attacking football and Carlos is doing wonders for our team.

People here will see Carlos's 1st place group finish as much better as Ghotbi's 1st place finish in 2011 even though we were far more convincing in 2011 with a much more difficult group with defending champions Iraq, WC team North Korea and UAE, and I repeat with a much weaker squad than today.

Sometimes you need a lot of energy to respond to some replies here, and I am really getting tired of repeating the same things every time.

[Camran khan]

I tell you bro, IMO after the arrival of Queiroz people have been brainwashed into the fact that anything we achieve is simply amazing and extraordinary, that Iran had no football in the past and that all of the sudden we learned how to play the game, that Carlos is the best thing that happened in our football and that our league is amateur, unable to produce talents. Sometimes you need a lot of energy to respond to some replies here, and I am really getting tired of repeating the same things every time.

I agree with you bro. Like I even said, I think CQ is doing a good job and I love him as our coach, we will probably never get anyone better under IR, but reading the post I quoted, if I didn't know he was talking about Iran, I would think by the descriptions that he is talking about Afghanistan or something, since beating UAE, Qatar and Bahrain seems amazing..

And these posts weren't even criticism to CQ, they barely had anything to do with CQ, but rather about our history before 2011, how the quoted post belittled our history and made it seem we have never beaten Asian teams before.
People tend to forget that Iran is the only team in Asia with more wins than losses against all of its asian opponents (except some tokhmi teams that we played like once in the 40s).

[khodam]

LllThe irony is that no matter what happens in this AC we can't really judge CQ. The lack of preparatory games is forcing us to shoot in the dark. The only feedback we can rely on here is what is coming from the TM players. They like CQ. CQ has also managed the typical controversies and dirty politics souroundibg the TM.

[Afat11]

LllThe irony is that no matter what happens in this AC we can't really judge CQ. The lack of preparatory games is forcing us to shoot in the dark. The only feedback we can rely on here is what is coming from the TM players. They like CQ. CQ has also managed the typical controversies and dirty politics souroundibg the TM.

I personally would agree that this team is far from "weak." I was the one who made the thread telling people to have faith in our team and that the Arabs would not stop us.


What I would say is that our preparations were extremely weak. Despite you all clumping UAE in with Bahrain and Qatar, their quality has vastly improved last Arab standards. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. They invested in their football and it is paying off. Maybe if Qatar would breed their own players who had Gheyrat for representing their national team, they would be farther along as well.

So, beating this team and holding them to 0 shots on target does say a lot about us. I think they may even have shots on target against Japan. So yes, give CQ credit where it is due. Our defense is feared and talked about.

Dr. Dooms complaint that CQ is denying good friendlies is all speculation. I will never trust Iranian media, because they are owned by the government and influenced by IFF.

We have no money, and it is clear that Chile and basically any other professional team will not play us for free. We can't even affor our own travel.

If Dr. Doom can prove to me that CQ had a free trip to Chile and all expenses paid to play them, then I will jump on the hate bandwagon.

I personally think that IFF looked into their empty bank accounts and said "tell the media that CQ doesn't think the friendly will help us."

Your arguments one fatal flaw is that you say that we play Madagascar because we want to boost our stats.

Why did we not even play Madagascar since June then? Why couldn't we even play South Africa??

Sorry Dr. Doom, but your arguments make no sense in the real world. Blame IFF, blame sanctions. Don't blame the guy who is falling to his knees due to his care for Iran. You make it seem like he is just here for a quick buck and doesn't care. He is doing what not many before him could. We saw how far our team fell after Ahmadinejad was elected and the sanctions became really bad.

You don't look at the big picture. You read your newspapers and think what they tell you to think.

[GolfePersique]

@ Camran khan
I agree with you, most of our players are individually above the level of PG/asian players, but this does not necessarily translate into success.
It needs many ingredients/elements.

Weneed to understand that even these teams have moved forward, the level of organisation, preparation, investment in youth in a country like UAE is incredible.
Despite all our shortcomings our team spirit, unity and homogeneity is exceptional and that is a great asset which could make the difference.

Like any other TM fan, I'd like to see a more aggressive/attacking football, but we need to look at the realities on the ground.

[Doctor DOOM]

I may not agree with them. But Afat and others have the right to think Iran is on par with the likes of Bahrain, UAE and Qatar. therefore beating such teams is to be seen as great feats of glory (evident from all the accolade and praise).

Just as much as me and others think we are on a higher plane and standard and it is beneath us to think so lowly of ourselves or act in such a manner for merely beating these teams with lucky goals or through opponents' mistakes.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to find a few chaps even think we have already over achieved by qualifying for the Asia cup. It takes all kinds, you know.


It's just a matter of one's standards.