Iran-Iraq Revisited

[Damavand]

Just ask your self the REAL question: WHY WAS BEN WILLIAMS CHOSEN TO REF THIS GAME??? AFC knew he held a gruge against Iran after the Bahrain game and CQ,s critic towards him, so the risk of Ben (Arab) Williams being partial in his decision making was huge!
THATS WHY THEY CHOSE HIM!!!!

I have said this over and over. The real culprit throughout the years has always been AFC and the fact that we have had ZERO influence there.

Williams was just a tool that was used to reach their objective.

[eerooni]

now that we are being logical:

1-we are perennial losers in p.k, the only reason we dont have at least 5 asian cups is because any team can get us to p.k and beat us. we are the worst in the world!

2-it was fairly obvious to "critics" of our tactics (i say our because if i mention any names i will lose you) that tactic is only good in case of a 1-0 score line. it was fairly obvious that the first team to score two and more goals will beat us. this tactic can go horribly wrong, when you ask? when shit happens! like a red card an own goal or a penalty. we really are quite one dimensional and dont let the gheyrati comebacks fool you.

3-our players are not mentally stable. mentally we are not strong enough to win the cup. our solid unified team shattered with one red card. you could see it. that is why we always lose on penalties as well and why we pull brain farts or terrrs or whatever you want to call it every time we get to the important games. we blame the ref and surely it is justified but what about the players who do these things?

4-lets talk about the mental terrs that our players do in every tournament: ali daei cant kick the ball out, zareh pushes a player in the chest, golmohammadi chips a penalty we needed to score to tie, kia misses penalty, bagheri punches player in the face, pouladi flops and stays down forever with the ref standing above him telling him to get up how agonizingly looooong he stayed down with his face in the grass, mirzapour passes the ball to the mexican, daei misses the penalty...etc on and on and on

5-we dont play football, we play a koongoshad version of anti football. we can play and score when we have to but we wont until we have to. we play a very methodical type of football which is closer to chess than to football. look at japan, they attack no matter what, it is about number of passes and shots very simple, out shot u.a.e 21 or something to 2.

6-cq tactics dont work for our team and it will never get results in an elimination type of tournament, why? because if it is not the refs, if it is not the brain farts, if it is not other teams or bounces and bad luck; the p.k will get us. we need to attack from minute 1! attack and defend not just defend and not just attack. we need to focus, calm down and play for the love of it then everything will fall into place.

7-bad substitutions, jahanbakhsh was beaten badly on a couple of plays, amiri was too inexperienced to all of a sudden come in and there is no reason for haghighi to play injured! beiranvand is just as good if not better.


people say we would ve won it but to me it was more than clear after the second game that we wont and i was all aboard the band wagon right after i saw the training pics but it all unfolded by the second game and by the third it was quite apparent.

I agree with 90% of your comments, you are spot on with a lot this and I agree, when we get a red card we shatter and fall , when we score, we tend to pull back, we need to keep the pressure, with Arab teams they key is to score 2 goals! when you do that you destroy them, they know playing a team like Iran which has a tight defence! We need to score early like we did and we need to double that before half time! we didnt, we pulled back and defended, Pouladi's expulsion was atrocious, he was pushed and even if he fell, to the ground crying, Ben Williams should have booked the Iraqi keeper for pushing! Period! you push you get carded! Why the HECK was Pouladi Carded??!!! Because from the gt go, Williams wanted to punish Quieroz! He is a vindictive ref. AFC is a vindictive organization, so add them together and you can see, Pouladi DID NOTHING WRONG! he is a cocky kid that fell, but who pushed him? also, why the hell did no Iraqi get a red card special the one that rushed into Haghighi??!!

It was obvious that Ben Williams wanted to kick Iran out! so lets not look into this deeper, the writings on the wall. Our team played brilliantly , we could have scored more goals and for sure we would have won the game 2-0 or 3-0! AFC destroyed us once again.... YOU want war, lets go to war with AFC!!!

[OFFSIDE_1]

We were undefeated in the group stage. We beat a UAE team that needed just a tie, making it a difficult task for us. This same UAE team that some people think we played too defensively against, beat Japan.

there is no question we were the better team against Iraq. Unfortunately people have a lack of understanding of what it takes to play 1 player down for 80 minutes. Comments such as "we should have attacked more" or "we can't come from behind when down a goal" makes you shake your head.


Why are people so hung up on our ability to come from behind? What would you have liked us to do? have the opponents score first so we can prove to you we do have the ability to come from behind? The fact is NONE of you know whether this team can come from behind or not, because we had no need to do so. We took the upper hand in all the games and had it not been a 10 vs. 11 game for 80 minutes, we would have kept a clean sheet with Iraq as well. So your beliefs about our come-from-behind ability is just speculation and is not a fact.

Now, a team that plays with 10 players for the majority of the match, and manages to score goals when we it did fall behind, is proof that it can come from behind. Down 2-1, we took the game to 3-3. So please present facts, and don't just write base less essays. So once again, we were down 2-1, with 10 players, and we exited the match at 3-3. It's just simple math. 1 + 2 does equal 3

[OFFSIDE_1]

Iran philosophy of Play under Coach Quiroz has been to give up the possession but not the space. This has served us well in the qualification for the world cup and even the world cup, although effective not pretty to watch. But when an opponent scores or in the Iraq's game we went a man down all bets are off. In the second half, we were clearly told to defend the lead. All 11 were defending in our own half.
Given this ref's history and Iran having been penalized for criticizing Williams in group play, Pooladi's actions with one yellow card was equal to the refs in lack of professionalism and judgment. He put himself and the team in a position of major hardship needlessly. I believe that we had the game in hand and up to the red card incident we had played a more fluid game than the previous three games. We lost the game when Iraq equalized with one man down. BTW that game was not Haghighi's best game.
At the end, Team Melli showed great discipline, courage and pure refuse to lose attitude not to mention self believe that they were never out of it. The character and unity of the team was impressive. They were clearly a team and a well coached team at that.
I personally believe that had we won the game against Iraq we would had a difficult time against Korea. Iran is blessed with great talents, great individual players, combine that with a great coach and you will go deep in a tournament like AFC but to make it to semi or final it requires long term planning, infrastructure, management, financial support, preparation and patience none of which this team had the luxury of having. Korean and Japan should be studied as a role model of long term planning by Iran Football Federation.
I am personally very proud of the team and greatly appreciate their dedication. They gave it all, that is why the loss to Iraq and by the manner which it happened was so hard to digest. I also think Coach Quiroz has been a great addition to our team and federation. He should be part of longer term planning for not only the senior team but also youth teams.
Above all what was so promising from my perspective was the younger pool of players that rose to the occasion. They Showed class and promise. Promise of a brighter future with god given talents that deserve more than just a world class coach.
AFC cheated itself of not having #1 ranked team in Asia not competing for the final four spots. No disrespect to Iraq or UAE (as both teams over achieved) those semis would have been much more representative of Asia's top talent with Iran and of course unlucky Japan.

Pouladi should not have dived and williams should not have shown the 2nd yellow card. It was bad judgement on Pouladi to dive, but it was a far worse judgement on the ref side for showing a yellow card. For the first card, a defender has to defend and cannot go into the game thinking that you have a hot headed ref. The replays show that he barely touched the Iraqi defender, so I still do not fault him for it. Williams is just a amateur fool that believes in controlling the game with the cards. That is just bad refereeing.

[Damavand]

I have said this over and over. Our real enemy throughout the years has been AFC and the fact that we have had ZERO influence there.
Williams was just a tool that was used to reach their objective.

And the reason we have not had any influence there since the revolution is INCOMPETENT individuals such as Nabi who get their position though connections and or being HEZBOLAHI rather than qualification.

Please watch how Mirsaghi exposes his lie about him asking AFC not to assign Williams for this game. The clip starts at 40:10 and goes to 42:45.

Is it any wonder why AFC as corrupt as they are, dismissed the doping matter ??

[DireStraits]

3) Williams has been criticized a lot for his wrong call with respect to Pouladi, but have you guys noticed that right before the penalty shoot-out, the Iraqi player who collided with Haghighi basically decided the outcome of the game without earning a red card? With an injured shoulder, it's no surprise that Haghighi wasn't able to block any Iraqi penalties; the surprise is that he was able to stand in goal after that collision.
en better used later in the game. Is there a reason why unfit players start games? Weren't there any alternatives?
All in all, this loss hurts precisely because it was so unnecessary. If we want to avoid experiencing such a drama again, we better start learning our lessons.

Yes Maybe best thing to do after the incident was for Haghighi to leave the game because of injury. This way a world would see how ugly they won.
After AUS lost against South Korea their coach was asked Don't you think Japan will be more dificult in semi final? He responded all the games will be dificut. I think he was more afraid of Iran!!!!
The Aus ref Williams was chosen to block Iran already in this stage before the final. He knew Iraq and Iran were both in War and tries to be unfair so both sides get Cards. Specially he was after fooladi. But he could have given a penalty to Shojaei in start of the game.
I think CQ and the players knew Wiliams was chosen with a mission which is why they didn't have concentration. What I think is funny is that Arabs understand this as historical victory.

[xerexes]

I am not sure I agree with you. Iraq won the Asian Cup in 2007 literally in the midst of a nasty civil war and without any lobby whatsoever. Again, while referees and AFC decisions are definitely crucial, we must first and foremost try to look at ourselves and improve those things we have influence on.

Iraq may not have direct connections but is still an Arab country and can count on sympathy from Arab officials. At the very least it doesn't have to worry about being screwed over by them. Our problem is twofold: We have no connections in a corrupt organization, and this organization is run by people who don't like us. Whether or not Williams is just a fool or had sinister intentions, the very fact that he was chosen days after CQ was fined for questioning his competence shows what we have to deal with. In UEFA if a coach criticizes a ref to the point he gets fined, they wouldn't put that exact ref in charge of a knockout match days later involving that same coach! This was not just a random decision by AFC. They did this back in 2004 too. Iranians complained about AFC always assigning Arab referees to matches involving Iran and Arab teams, and not only was that request ignored, in the very next match against Arabs they gave us another Arab referee!

As I've said before, unless IFF is willing to spend money to lobby and buy connections they might as well forget about the Asian Cup and just focus on the WCQ. Without connections in a hostile and corrupt organization you just can't win tournaments where a single knockout match can seal your fate. Starting in 2019, we'll have to play a round of 16, a QF and a SF just to get to the final itself. All it takes is one bad ref in one of those games and we're out every time.

[Lorestani]

A few more observations that support some of the valuable arguments made by others in this thread:

1) Iran did not have a single shot on goal between Iraq's first goal and the 86th minute. That goes to show that, for whatever reason, we could not produce any chances for about 30min in the second half. Once we got scored on another time, the team suddenly started to play a more offensive game, which paid off both times we were trailing. I think this is a clear indication that the team did not have a sense of urgency as long as Iraq was not leading the game. Something to think about and reconsider in the future!

2) Also note that when Azmoun was subbed out in the 63th minute, we essentially played without a striker for about 20min until finally Gucci came on for Dejagah (84th minute). Another clear indication that TM was not really interested in attacking. Interestingly enough, our first chance after Iraq's first goal materialized immediately after Gucci was subbed in (his shot in the 86th minute). The question is why was Dejagah playing out of position as lone striker for about 20min? I am asking those who know more about tactics and strategy: was that a reasonable move by Queiroz?

3) Again, we are focusing too much on the referee. Yes, he sucked. Yes, he badly disadvantaged us. Yes, he should have never been assigned referee for this game after Queiroz had criticized him. But is this really all of the story? I don't think so. Again, if we consider us Asia's best, we need to start acting accordingly asap. Blaming everything on the referee is just too cheap. And more importantly, it constructs a victim narrative that prevents us from learning from our own mistakes.

[Doctor DOOM]

@ masoudNekounam
Seems you watched a different tournament .... or perhaps it's a question of standards.
I am sorry that you have such low standards. Nothing can be done about this unless YOU choose to elevate yourself.
But don't expect others to have such lowly standards.
A couple of passes and an accidental goal in a tournament is way below pathetic.
This is supposed to be a collection of the best a country has. Not merely satisfying the absolute bare minimums (most often he doesn't even satisfy that).

Anyway, my suggestion is for you to elevate your lowly standards when it comes to national team representation. It's rather pitiful

[Lorestani]

I don't want to stir things up, but I think there is something to be said here again. Yesterday, against Sepahan, Naft got red-carded, but managed to score in the aftermath, equalizing the game they were losing. Interestingly, Mansourian, Naft's coach, said in the post-game press conference that the red card gave the team some extra energy and that he asked his players to stay calm and focused:

به گزارش خبرگزاری فارس، علیرضا منصوریان پس از تساوی یک بر یک مقابل سپاهان در نشست خبری گفت: بازی بسیار سنگینی بود، هر دو تیم برای صدر جدول می*جنگیدند و سپاهان بهتر از ما بازی را شروع کرد. برخلاف اینکه تیم*های ۱۰ نفره کمی عقب می*نشینند، تیم ما بعد از ۱۰ نفره شدن، انرژی بیشتری گرفت و با تعویض*های خوبی هم انجام دادیم به بازی برگشتیم و موقعیت گلزنی پیدا کردیم. باید از بدنساز تیم تشکر کنم که شرایط جسمانی بازیکنان را آماده کرده است. Source: http://footballitarin.com/link_page.php?id=204957

So much for the argument that we didn't manage to keep our 1-0 lead against Iraq just because Pouladi got unnecessarily red-carded. Again, we need to learn the right lessons before jumping the gun on referees, federations, the weather, kit providers or any other kore khar that is out there!

[AminGP]

So much for the argument that we didn't manage to keep our 1-0 lead against Iraq just because Pouladi got unnecessarily red-carded. Again, we need to learn the right lessons before jumping the gun on referees, federations, the weather, kit providers or any other kore khar that is out there!

But we did manage to come back twice though in extra times where players are usually extremely exhausted.

I think CQ should practice playing with 10 men from time to time. I remember in 2002 WC in Brazil vs England game, brazil went down to 10 players but they still dominated the game. Cause in their training session they in fact did practice playing with 10 men so they were fully prepared for it.

[DireStraits]

a bit better.

3) Williams has been criticized a lot for his wrong call with respect to Pouladi, but have you guys noticed that right before the penalty shoot-out, the Iraqi player who collided with Haghighi basically decided the outcome of the game without earning a red card? With an injured shoulder, it's no surprise that Haghighi wasn't able to block any Iraqi penalties; the surprise is that he was able to stand in goal after that collision.

.

That was the most disgusting thing and best thing Haghighi should do was to leave the game. That would show the World how unsportly Williams and Arabs were.
Generally I think it is time to make fooball in unimportant. You may not know but many gets Heart attack of seeing these things in Iran. Like I have said Iran should never send a A team to AFC competetiononly World cup. They will never ever let
Iran win it. Even Iran was as strong as Germany

[masoud nekounam]

I don't want to stir things up, but I think there is something to be said here again. Yesterday, against Sepahan, Naft got red-carded, but managed to score in the aftermath, equalizing the game they were losing. Interestingly, Mansourian, Naft's coach, said in the post-game press conference that the red card gave the team some extra energy and that he asked his players to stay calm and focused:
به گزارش خبرگزاری فارس، علیرضا منصوریان پس از تساوی یک بر یک مقابل سپاهان در نشست خبری گفت: بازی بسیار سنگینی بود، هر دو تیم برای صدر جدول می*جنگیدند و سپاهان بهتر از ما بازی را شروع کرد. برخلاف اینکه تیم*های ۱۰ نفره کمی عقب می*نشینند، تیم ما بعد از ۱۰ نفره شدن، انرژی بیشتری گرفت و با تعویض*های خوبی هم انجام دادیم به بازی برگشتیم و موقعیت گلزنی پیدا کردیم. باید از بدنساز تیم تشکر کنم که شرایط جسمانی بازیکنان را آماده کرده است. Source: http://footballitarin.com/link_page.php?id=204957
So much for the argument that we didn't manage to keep our 1-0 lead against Iraq just because Pouladi got unnecessarily red-carded. Again, we need to learn the right lessons before jumping the gun on referees, federations, the weather, kit providers or any other kore khar that is out there!

They are completely different situations.

The pressure on TM players was IMMENSE. They basically had 70 million people back home that were pulling for them for a tournament that comes once every four years, and in this particular Asian Cup, most everybody genuinely liked Iran's chances of coming home with the gold medal.

Meanwhile, Naft Tehran has closer 500 fans, in a league game in Iran. Big freaking deal. They could have lost and the few people that cared would have gotten over it after a day. Here we are a month later and people are still heartbroken about TM's exit from Asian Cup. Nobody really cares about Naft Tehran losing to Sepahan (with all due respect).

Also, the fact that TM's red card was such BS definitely had a huge psychological affect as well. How are the players supposed to just move on from such a disgraceful call and forget it and play as if nothing happened? We were playing vs 12 men because of Ben Williams' scandalous refereeing.

You are comparing apples with oranges here.

[Lorestani]

They are completely different situations.

The pressure on TM players was IMMENSE. They basically had 70 million people back home that were pulling for them for a tournament that comes once every four years, and in this particular Asian Cup, most everybody genuinely liked Iran's chances of coming home with the gold medal.

Meanwhile, Naft Tehran has closer 500 fans, in a league game in Iran. Big freaking deal. They could have lost and the few people that cared would have gotten over it after a day. Here we are a month later and people are still heartbroken about TM's exit from Asian Cup. Nobody really cares about Naft Tehran losing to Sepahan (with all due respect).

Also, the fact that TM's red card was such BS definitely had a huge psychological affect as well. How are the players supposed to just move on from such a disgraceful call and forget it and play as if nothing happened? We were playing vs 12 men because of Ben Williams' scandalous refereeing.

You are comparing apples with oranges here.

Obviously, you are right in pointing out the differences between the two situations. Nowhere did I say that the two situations are comparable, let alone equal. I just provided a very recent example for how you can go on being successful with one man down. There are countless other examples, for instance the 2012 Iran-South Korea game in Tehran when Team Melli managed to win the game despite Masoud being red-carded. The point is we must not comfort ourselves with the fact that Williams made a terrible mistake and pretend that winning the game was simply impossible from that moment onwards. I mean we were 1-0 ahead and, as our two other goals showed, we were more than capable of wreaking havoc on the Iraqi joke of a defense. It would be a cheap excuse to blame everything on Williams. He deserves every blame he gets, but his decision did not make us lose. We made ourselves lose.

[KeonKish]

Re: Iran-Iraq Revisited

Obviously, you are right in pointing out the differences between the two situations. Nowhere did I say that the two situations are comparable, let alone equal. I just provided a very recent example for how you can go on being successful with one man down. There are countless other examples, for instance the 2012 Iran-South Korea game in Tehran when Team Melli managed to win the game despite Masoud being red-carded. The point is we must not comfort ourselves with the fact that Williams made a terrible mistake and pretend that winning the game was simply impossible from that moment onwards. I mean we were 1-0 ahead and, as our two other goals showed, we were more than capable of wreaking havoc on the Iraqi joke of a defense. It would be a cheap excuse to blame everything on Williams. He deserves every blame he gets, but his decision did not make us lose. We made ourselves lose.

Not really. Being a man down in any quarterfinal match is a death sentence. After 3 games being tired and loosing one of your best defenders it is very hard to win when your teams success is based on its solid defensive line, which was no longer there.

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