TM Fans Must Understand - We Currently Simply Lack the Talent!

[ramingeles2000]

From the recent expectations placed on TM and the criticisms of CQ it has become very clear to me that many members either (1) don't understand or (2) refuse to acknowledge a very simple fact: we currently lack talent compared to prior generations. If you've been watching TM for the last 15 years+ or so, you will understand this.

Unless you understand and acknowledge this very clear reality of TM today, your analysis of Iranian football, TM's performance this asian cup, and CQ's accomplishments can't be taken seriously. To illustrate my point, I will start with a common argument made on these forums about CQ: the argument that CQ's team in AC2015 lost in the quarterfinals in penalties, which is the exact same outcome that GN had in AC2007, hence they had equal performances and therefore CQ doesn't deserve his salary and is overrated etc.

Let's compare rosters, shall we?

AC2015 Squad
Our current squad features a total of 5 European legionnaires:

-Haghighi (starter, Penafiel)
-Azmoun (substitute, Rubin Kazan)
-Nekounam (starter, Osasuna)
-Ansarifard (substitute, Osasuna)
-Jahanbakhsh (starter, NEC)

If we want to include Gucci and Dejagah (since they were very recently in Europe), we will say 7 European legionnaires. 7 European legionnaires, and only ONE starter in a top division!!

Compare this to AC2007:

Nekounam - Osasuna - was in his prime - 26 - had just joined Osasuna and was at his absolute peak.
Ando -Bolton - was 24 years old
Rezaei - Livorno - best defender
Mahdavikia - 28 - Stuttgart - starter in his prime
Karimi - 28 - Bayern Munich - in his prime
Hashemian - 30 - Hannover
Zandi - Apollon - had just left bundesliga.

Also we had Shojaei who would join Osasuna a year later.

We basically had EIGHT PLAYERS who were either starters or super-subs for FIRST DIVISION EUROPEAN TEAMS.



If CQ had this level of talent he would win the asian cup. I don't understand how people udnerrate this factor. It's not about what CQ's acomplished - it's about what he's accomplished when CONSIDERING the dearth of talent at his disposal.

When the day comes that Iran's talent levels match our glorious past - and with CQ at the helm - we will go to the 2nd round of the WC and win AC2019 (if CQ is crazy enough to stay that long). But just made this post so that people would have a little more perspective and look to history to put our current situation into perspective!

So bas

[ehsan singapore]

i believe we have talent, the main difference between 2007 which we had alot of good players and this year is that this year we play as a team and everyone fight,if CQ had the 2006 team he would have taken us to next round

[Afat11]

From the recent expectations placed on TM and the criticisms of CQ it has become very clear to me that many members either (1) don't understand or (2) refuse to acknowledge a very simple fact: we currently lack talent compared to prior generations. If you've been watching TM for the last 15 years+ or so, you will understand this.

Unless you understand and acknowledge this very clear reality of TM today, your analysis of Iranian football, TM's performance this asian cup, and CQ's accomplishments can't be taken seriously. To illustrate my point, I will start with a common argument made on these forums about CQ: the argument that CQ's team in AC2015 lost in the quarterfinals in penalties, which is the exact same outcome that GN had in AC2007, hence they had equal performances and therefore CQ doesn't deserve his salary and is overrated etc.

Let's compare rosters, shall we?

AC2015 Squad
Our current squad features a total of 5 European legionnaires:

-Haghighi (starter, Penafiel)
-Azmoun (substitute, Rubin Kazan)
-Nekounam (starter, Osasuna)
-Ansarifard (substitute, Osasuna)
-Jahanbakhsh (starter, NEC)

If we want to include Gucci and Dejagah (since they were very recently in Europe), we will say 7 European legionnaires. 7 European legionnaires, and only ONE starter in a top division!!

Compare this to AC2007:

Nekounam - Osasuna - was in his prime - 26 - had just joined Osasuna and was at his absolute peak.
Ando -Bolton - was 24 years old
Rezaei - Livorno - best defender
Mahdavikia - 28 - Stuttgart - starter in his prime
Karimi - 28 - Bayern Munich - in his prime
Hashemian - 30 - Hannover
Zandi - Apollon - had just left bundesliga.

Also we had Shojaei who would join Osasuna a year later.

We basically had EIGHT PLAYERS who were either starters or super-subs for FIRST DIVISION EUROPEAN TEAMS.



If CQ had this level of talent he would win the asian cup. I don't understand how people udnerrate this factor. It's not about what CQ's acomplished - it's about what he's accomplished when CONSIDERING the dearth of talent at his disposal.

When the day comes that Iran's talent levels match our glorious past - and with CQ at the helm - we will go to the 2nd round of the WC and win AC2019 (if CQ is crazy enough to stay that long). But just made this post so that people would have a little more perspective and look to history to put our current situation into perspective!

So bas

According to people on this board, it's CQ's fault that we don't have top players in Europe lol.

Who brought Dejagah, Gucci, Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Pouraligangi and others into the team?

Ghalenoie would have a starting line-up of:

--------------Foruouzan-------------------
Heydari-Sadeghi-Omranzadeh-Beikzadeh
---------P. Nouri-Ebrahimi----------------
Y. Karimi--------------------Shahbazzadeh
------------Enayati-Borhani--------------

Good for Esteghlal fans, but definitely not good for TM. Dejagah and Gucci would never play for a Mickey Mouse coach like this, and he would only pick his friends. The team would be filled with politics and insubordination, and even Ghalenoie would get involved in this.

So yes, thank the lord for those who want CQ to be gone. Maybe one day, we can have these kind of coaches again.

[ehsan singapore]

and from the 4-5 young players some of them will go europe, it will take abit of time to create a team and player, we have players ,however our league is not there, it need to get better

[Afat11]

i believe we have talent, the main difference between 2007 which we had alot of good players and this year is that this year we play as a team and everyone fight,if CQ had the 2006 team he would have taken us to next round

If CQ or any professional coach had the 2002-2004 team, oh god...

That line-up was sinister. Daei, Azizi, Karimi, Mahdavikia, Bagheri... That was our greatest team ever. We deserved that Asian Cup. We were the current Japan back then. Everyone feared us, and us losing any game came as a massive shock.

[ehsan singapore]

i agree, i still believe CQ will stay till 2018, but he want more friendlies and better preperation from IFF, he needs the tolls

[persepolisfan]

You are comparing apples to oranges. We played a way in which we could flow and attack, hence many of those euro players shined in our team. Now, we rely heavily on defense, to the point of parking the bus against 3rd tier asian teams. This is CQ's choice, not the choice of the many young midfielders and forwards wanting to play for our country.
I guess you don't watch the IPL, essentially making this thread extremely one sided and useless. How is it that Mansourians U-23 side played so eloquently when the team consisted of solely IPL players? Or that even a "talentless" 2011 side coach by Mansourian caused so much havoc to the Russians, who all were legionnaires?
I'm not hating on CQ, but critiquing some of his tactics, which should be changed so that 2018 will be a success.
Oh, and by the way, we have some talented players and teams in Iran that play some attractive and successful attacking football. Let's not disregard them because you are on CQ's tip.

[EKBATAN]

lack of success of our team is mainly because we dont have friendlies so we can never test our team. its just catching up with us after all these years. its true we had better players but it mainly comes down to the fact that these guys hardly play with each other. you cant just pick up a team and win asian cup if you are playing crappy ass teams. same with the world cup, we had 2 chosee friendlies with non-world cup teams. until we start playing decent teams on regular basis (4-5 times/year) we're only going to get worse. even if we have the good players. we are kind of like the person who hits the gym hard without stretching and warming up

[Afat11]

You are comparing apples to oranges. We played a way in which we could flow and attack, hence many of those euro players shined in our team. Now, we rely heavily on defense, to the point of parking the bus against 3rd tier asian teams. This is CQ's choice, not the choice of the many young midfielders and forwards wanting to play for our country.
I guess you don't watch the IPL, essentially making this thread extremely one sided and useless. How is it that Mansourians U-23 side played so eloquently when the team consisted of solely IPL players? Or that even a "talentless" 2011 side coach by Mansourian caused so much havoc to the Russians, who all were legionnaires?
I'm not hating on CQ, but critiquing some of his tactics, which should be changed so that 2018 will be a success.
Oh, and by the way, we have some talented players and teams in Iran that play some attractive and successful attacking football. Let's not disregard them because you are on CQ's tip.

Please rewatch the full Russia match. We had 2 shots the whole match and were defending as much as we currently do. They hit the post and had way more of the offense, but couldn't finish.

It's funny how just because we won you think we destroyed. If we had beaten Argentina, I'm sure plenty of you would be praising how we destroyed them too.

[sirvan]

I don't agree

[ali alipour]

This is not necessarily true. It is CQ's choice to play so defensively. You really think an offensive line with the likes of dejagah, jahanbakhsh, hajsafi, rafeie, azmoun, gucci, and even shojaei wouldnt be able to pass the ball around and score? There is only so much those little deflections or individual plays will result in that one goal like they did with azmoun and gucci. If queiroz wants to succeed and first make the world cup then be relevant in it he has to at least play balanced. I just hope iran doesnt become a laughing stock by tying a minnow like myanmar 0-0 in wcq.

[Z Joon]

Disagree. If we speak about today, we are at least among the top 4 most talented squads in Asia. This is football Ashia, not the WC, and the number of players in top leagues shouldn't matter as much. Most of our players have played in top European leagues and they are much better than 95% of the Asian Cup teams.

The extreme defensive approach of Carlos obviously hinders our more attacking players performances which makes you think we actually have no choice than to defend.
On long term this is a terrible strategy as I mainly blame our defensive mentality for our lack of legionnaires. We might get results but our football won't improve.

[persepolisfan]

Please rewatch the full Russia match. We had 2 shots the whole match and were defending as much as we currently do. They hit the post and had way more of the offense, but couldn't finish.
It's funny how just because we won you think we destroyed. If we had beaten Argentina, I'm sure plenty of you would be praising how we destroyed them too.

wtf are you saying man!! Get your facts straight! We had 30 attacks equal with the Russians. We had 48% possession and when we attacked, there were 8 players in the opponents half, and 5 or 6 in or around the box usually. And I never said we destroyed any team FYI.
Kheli mozakhraf gofti, khejalat bekesh

[Rumez]

corrections:

Mahdavikia played at Hamburger SV

Jahanbakhsh is not fixed in a top league, he is fix in Dutch 2nd league.

[Nariman]