TM Fans Must Understand - We Currently Simply Lack the Talent!

[Karimi_1]

thats not the point we would have finished with 1 point regardless without CQ

:bs:

[Oz1]

Poor Nigeria??!! lets see....African champions, qualified to WC against tough opponents, qualified to round of 16! I wish TM was as 'poor' as Nigeria! pls get your facts right...

Nigeria were crap.

[Dreamer]

Talent is the one thing keeping our position, so we don't really lack any.

[ramingeles2000]

I'm not saying Iran doesn't have talented players. We're a football-mad nation of 80 million, of course we will produce talented players by sheer probability alone. What I'm saying is that in comparison to the team melli's of recent past, this team isn't as talented. Don't misinterpret my post.

Clearly there's a market for Iranian players in Europe. If mahdavikia, karimi, etc. were able to go to europe, there's no reason we shouldn't have more legionnaires now. I don't buy the argument that Iranian players aren't in Europe because of lack of infrastructure or facilities etc. we have sent plenty of players to europe before. the reason we don't have 6-7 legionnaires today is because our players aren't good enough/disciplined enough to play at that level.

all i'm saying is that in the early-mid 2000's, we had better players with more established european careers than we do now, so we must judge CQ and current circumstances in that light. whether this shortage of europe-ready players is because of talent or lack of ambition or economics isn't relevant bc the fact remains that our team today is objectively weaker than it was in the past.
australia, japan and korea currently have better players than we do. their starting 11 is better than ours.

[ramingeles2000]

Too many inaccuracies in ur post which I'm not going to go into detail about....but the main point ur attempting to make is just wrong in every way. We have a lot of talent and we showed it both in the WC and AC. Whether or not the talent has been maximized is a different question but the talent is clearly there. I suggest you watch Iran-Argentina or Iran-south Korea (any of the 3 from the last 2 and a half years) over again if you haven't done so already.

if the talent is there, why aren't our players playing in europe? if mahdavikia, karimi, daei, bagheri and hashemian could be starters in top clubs, why can't our current batch of players? i'm not saying we don't have a lot of talent. i'm saying our players today are not as good as our players 10 years ago.

[Ardalan]

Ramin jan, doroste ke setaarehaaye ghadim dar TM nistand, amma estedaadhaayi mibinim ke daaran mohrehaaye mohemi mishan dar TM. Nemigam ke kheili estedaad ham daarim dar Iran, amma gahi vaghthaa modiriate bad jeloye raftane baazikonhaaye maa be Europa raa ham migire. Be har haal in nakhostin baare ke man vaghean omidvaram be ayandeye TM chon CQ har baar ke harf mizane dar bareye naghshe daashtane baazie dostaane baraaye pishrafte team esraar mikone. Va be nazar mirese ke IFF saranjam ye gohi dare mikhoore va dota baazie dostaane ba harifhaaye dorost hesaabi joor karde, agar in ravand edame bede motmaen baash bihstar bazikone irani dar Europa khaahim did, nemigam 20ta amma shayad 2 o 3 bazikone dige ke tavanaaie baazi dar footballe Europa raa darand.

[PSGman#19]

if the talent is there, why aren't our players playing in europe? if mahdavikia, karimi, daei, bagheri and hashemian could be starters in top clubs, why can't our current batch of players? i'm not saying we don't have a lot of talent. i'm saying our players today are not as good as our players 10 years ago.

Because they are iranians. They were africans or brazilians, they would be playing to Europe now.

[PerZiano]

Disagree. If we speak about today, we are at least among the top 4 most talented squads in Asia. This is football Ashia, not the WC, and the number of players in top leagues shouldn't matter as much. Most of our players have played in top European leagues and they are much better than 95% of the Asian Cup teams.

The extreme defensive approach of Carlos obviously hinders our more attacking players performances which makes you think we actually have no choice than to defend.
On long term this is a terrible strategy as I mainly blame our defensive mentality for our lack of legionnaires. We might get results but our football won't improve.

I read that in Ali-Daei-Voice

[Ghermez Agha]

if the talent is there, why aren't our players playing in europe? if mahdavikia, karimi, daei, bagheri and hashemian could be starters in top clubs, why can't our current batch of players? i'm not saying we don't have a lot of talent. i'm saying our players today are not as good as our players 10 years ago.

Since when does playing in Europe epitomize being talented?

If you look at not only the core of our team anyway you will see that they either are playing in Europe or have played in europe:

Dejagah - brought up in Europe this is the first season in his career not playing there
Reza - same for him
Teymourian - on the level of a standard European footballer (and I'm being generous by using the word standard)
Nekounam - osasuna
Ansarifard - osasuna
Azmoun - Rubin
JB - NEC
Haghighi- penafiel
Hajsafi - had offers to play in England put couldn't go due to work permit issues
Shojaie - played 6 years in Europe
Pooladi - had offers to go to Europe but chose money instead
Beiranvand, rafiei, ghafouri, pouraliganji - all have the skill set to play in Europe but are very young and will likely be our next legionaries as they are all in their early 20's with the exception of Ghafouri.



Although I don't agree with how you define talent, I think the above is enough to prove you wrong anyway. PK said it best, if a world class coach like CQ didn't see talent in our team he wouldn't have stayed in Iran for as long as he did, there is literally no other reason for him to have stayed. It was purely the potential of the team and the love of football in the country that swayed him to stay. We have the most talented players in Asia IMO....without half the standard of facilities, infrastructure, and professionalism we manage to consistently be a top team in the continent. Idk what else has kept us there other than our talent.....

[rugs]

I agree somewhat.

The days of purely "talented" players are over.

If you look at top leagues around the world, most of their players have been in the football schooling system since under 10 years of age.

They are not only taught the fundamental skills of the game (passing, shooting, heading, defending, etc...), but they are also taught the various styles or schools of play.

We don't have that in Iran. We have talent, but they are not schooled properly. I think that is why they cannot compete for positions with players that are so much more advanced than they are.

Someone like Azmoun has a chance because he is still "teachable", or someone like JB because he seems to be very intelligent.

We need to fix our schooling system in Iran and get all the dallals out before we can talk about competing with the rest of the world.

It's like saying why aren't people around the world buying Iran Khodro cars? We need to modernize first.

[ramingeles2000]

Because they are iranians. They were africans or brazilians, they would be playing to Europe now.

were mahdavikia, daei, karimi, azizi and bagheri african or brazilian? this argument doesn't work my friend.

[Keano]

Of course we still have talents and good prospect, however on a realistic note, one would point out the truth:

Compare TM's players at this Asian Cup to that of 1996 Asian Cup (Star-studded), 2000 Asian Cup (Yet again Star-studded), 2002 WCQ (So many amazing players shining in top European clubs), 2004 Asian cup (Once again filled with so many star players playing in top European clubs), 2006 World Cup (One of the fanciest collection of players in our football history), 2007 Asian cup (start of our football decline, yet still filled with so many super stars), 2011 Asian cup (Old TM stars on the verge of their retirement, but still key players and game changers).

Go figure...

[ramingeles2000]

Since when does playing in Europe epitomize being talented?

If you look at not only the core of our team anyway you will see that they either are playing in Europe or have played in europe:

Dejagah - brought up in Europe this is the first season in his career not playing there
Reza - same for him
Teymourian - on the level of a standard European footballer (and I'm being generous by using the word standard)
Nekounam - osasuna
Ansarifard - osasuna
Azmoun - Rubin
JB - NEC
Haghighi- penafiel
Hajsafi - had offers to play in England put couldn't go due to work permit issues
Shojaie - played 6 years in Europe
Pooladi - had offers to go to Europe but chose money instead
Beiranvand, rafiei, ghafouri, pouraliganji - all have the skill set to play in Europe but are very young and will likely be our next legionaries as they are all in their early 20's with the exception of Ghafouri.



Although I don't agree with how you define talent, I think the above is enough to prove you wrong anyway. PK said it best, if a world class coach like CQ didn't see talent in our team he wouldn't have stayed in Iran for as long as he did, there is literally no other reason for him to have stayed. It was purely the potential of the team and the love of football in the country that swayed him to stay. We have the most talented players in Asia IMO....without half the standard of facilities, infrastructure, and professionalism we manage to consistently be a top team in the continent. Idk what else has kept us there other than our talent.....

the list you named doesn't disprove my point. my point was that we had players starting in top european clubs...you listed players that are mostly substitutes in 2nd-division or struggling clubs. my point was that we had better players with better careers in the past, and there's no denying this IMO.

you mention players like hajsafi pouladi etc who had european offers but didn't take them - that's irrelevant bc (1) who knows if those rumors are true and (2) we had players who "almost" made it in the past as well, so by your logic TM in 2006 would have had 15 legionnaires instead of 8.

[PSGman#19]

were mahdavikia, daei, karimi, azizi and bagheri african or brazilian? this argument doesn't work my friend.

Daei, Azizi, Bagheri it was in 1997 almost 20 years ago. Times changed.
Mahdavikia the same plus a brilliant WC1998 with a goal against the USA in mondovision.

Karimi, hum. If Iran/Germany didn't occur, he could have been snubbed like a lot of iranians these days.

[ramingeles2000]

Daei, Azizi, Bagheri it was in 1997 almost 20 years ago. Times changed.
Mahdavikia the same plus a brilliant WC1998 with a goal against the USA in mondovision.

Karimi, hum. If Iran/Germany didn't occur, he could have been snubbed like a lot of iranians these days.

disagree. any time one of our players has had true european potential - which is usualyl accompanied by a solid european offer - they go. european scouting is extremely aggressive and sophisticated. they find talent regardless of where it is. i don't buy the "anti-Iran bias" BS. You say times have changed but what about nekounam and ando, who transferred to europe in 2006-2007? Come on man.

Karimi was on European scout radars since 1999-2000, when he received a solid offer from Atletico Madrid. The Germany game wasn't even why he went to Bayern. The scouts at the time decided he wasn't fit enough for bundesliga!

If CQ had 7-8 players who were sharpened by day-in-day-out training and fighting for a starting spot in solid first-division European clubs, he would have a much easier job. I don't understand how people don't recognize or talk about talent fluctuations on national teams...think about teams that have a golden generation and qualify to the world cup (like, say, Romania in wc98) and then never make it again. National teams are heavily reliant on the luck of having (a) the right players (b) at the right age - ideally their prime and (c) the weakness of your traditional regional rivals for success.