Did Amiri cost us the match as much as Ben Williams?!!!

[DireStraits]

Players that did not live up to my expectations were
1-Haj safi 2- Amiri 3- Jahan Bakhsh 4- Haghighi 5- POur ALi Ganji (I know he scored but he also create that penalty for Iraq)
The player that I missed was Khalatbari and beikzade
I still blame Williams for that lose but what CQ did was too risky after the red Card. Instead of Amiri I expected to see
Khosrow Heidari.
------------------------------Haghighi-------------------
Ghafouri-----------Hosseini----PourAliGanji----------Hajsafi
Heidari-------------Ando-----------NN------------Dejagah
---------------------Azmoun/Gucci---------------------
This is how I would have done. Dejagah is technically strong ancd could be used in left side. Heidari is good in cross from right side Dejagah from left.

[hzv]

LOL. Except Amiri's not "young", was NOT active and barely covered any ground if you cared to watch the clip and read some of the arguments in this "meaningless" thread!

i would be very suprised if cq does not go over his performance with him,not to blame him but some constructive technical analysis of his play has to be given to him if he has any chance to improve but if i were the coach he will not be included in any tm list for a while. he was too irresponsible not to track back twice! in such a heysiati game. no presence of mind whatsoever.

[Ando Teymourian]

i would be very suprised if cq does not go over his performance with him,not to blame him but some constructive technical analysis of his play has to be given to him if he has any chance to improve but if i were the coach he will not be included in any tm list for a while. he was too irresponsible not to track back twice! in such a heysiati game. no presence of mind whatsoever.

Maybe if we had 7 or 8 friendly matches before the tournament, these mistakes could have been made with no deadly cost to us.

If we played 10 friendlies before the AC, I am guessing that Amiri does not make that mistake twice.

[Nariman]

[PSGman#19]

True! the referee could have sent off 4 iranian players just because they were breathing, people will still come and criticize our players!

[Camran khan]

I am not even a fan of Amiri, but again, fadaye saresh. His tears make me forgive him for every mistake, at the end we lost mainly because of another scandal.

This!


Besides, it wasn't his fault, Amiri was great, you expect him to be flawless after only 3 games? I bet you if we look at it this way there are tons of other players who made much worse mistakes.

[OFFSIDE_1]

No, I determine how "active" he was not based on his age or an opinion but based on facts and those facts are:
1 - He left his man (Yasin) unmarked on the 1st goal and was walking in the middle of the field instead.
2 - He again left his man unmarked on the 2nd goal and was slowly walking back toward our goal.
3 - He completely side stepped the play on the 3rd goal.
4 - Shojaei had one touch on the ball every 2 minutes and a pass every 4 minutes with 90% accuracy, creating a chance in 45 minutes. Amiri had a touch on the ball every 3.3 minutes and a pass every 5.3 minutes with 75% accuracy, creating 0 chances in 85 minutes.
Unfortunately, the AFC site does not provide distances covered by players but I can assure you that Amiri was no where near even 8 km in 85 minutes of play.

I suggest you go watch the entire 2nd half and the extra minutes and then come back with your analysis. A few youtube clips is not how you determine if he was active or not.

So I am just curious, ....... who would you have brought in as a substitute?

[shahname]

If you want to blame a player who cost us the game, then that player is not Amiri but Pouladi who acted careless and stupid and thereby giving the ref. an excuse to throw him out - while he knew he already had a yellow card. If there was one player that let his team mates down, it was Pouladi and not Amiri.

[Bi-honar]

So I am just curious, ....... who would you have brought in as a substitute?

I would have brought in Gucci for Azmoun at the beginning of the 2nd half and left Shojaei on until minute 63 as the LAM - he was the most experienced player in the squad for that position and way better coordinated in the Ando/Ashkan/Gucci/LAM diamond.

Amiri's substitution was made worse by pulling out Azmoun and bringing in JB - in essence we ended up playing without a striker for half of the 2nd half with two relatively inexperienced wingers not suited for the type of tracking back that we needed being a man down.

JB should have been subbed for Shojaei at minute 63, Ashkan would have moved to the left and we would have still had a very strong offensive front line for the entire 2nd half.

[OFFSIDE_1]

I would have brought in Gucci for Azmoun at the beginning of the 2nd half and left Shojaei on until minute 63 as the LAM - he was the most experienced player in the squad for that position and way better coordinated in the Ando/Ashkan/Gucci/LAM diamond.
Amiri's substitution was made worse by pulling out Azmoun and bringing in JB - in essence we ended up playing without a striker for half of the 2nd half with two relatively inexperienced wingers not suited for the type of tracking back that we needed being a man down.
JB should have been subbed for Shojaei at minute 63, Ashkan would have moved to the left and we would have still had a very strong offensive front line for the entire 2nd half.

we lost our best one-on-one defender and your proposal is to swap Azmoun with Gucci ? How does that address the lack of defensive support on the left side of the pitch? So from minute 43 to minute 63, your proposal would have us play with a big defensive hole, yet your solution is to waste a valuable sub to swap out two players how have nothing to do with the loss of Pouladi ? Again, when you are down a player, you make substitutions to bring in players that cover the extra ground. Swapping out Azmoun for Gucci does exactly what?

I don't mean to trivialize it, but that's like having a flat left rear tire, and fixing it by replacing the headlights that are not even faulty .....

you also claim JB and Amiri were not suited for "tracking back" ? did you not see the 3 or 4 times that JB successfully streaked back, made nice defensive stops and started the counter attack. That's why I say you should see the ENTIRE match, and not a few youtube video clips.

[perspolis#1]

Its ridiculous that we can blame a single player for the loss. Amiri's penalty was unfortunate but if it was two inches to the left would have been called sublime. Pouladi is at fault for baiting Ben Williams but that doesnt make it hisfault we lost the match.

Young players are inexperienced and the Asian Cup should be used to test them and collect the better ones. Team Melli had had an aging problem since 2010 and finally CQ is fixing that. Pouraliganji can help our aging defense. Azmoun can help our previously lacking strike force. One day Dejagah will be old and in that position JB will be a boss. He didnt play well this AC but next AC his nerves will be under control and he'll be ready to play. In my opinion, CQ also found a new RB for the next 2-3 years in Ghafouri. If CQ can find us another defensive mid and a playmaker to replace Shojaei he will have the makings of a youthful counterattacking team that can bite.

[Bi-honar]

we lost our best one-on-one defender and your proposal is to swap Azmoun with Gucci ? How does that address the lack of defensive support on the left side of the pitch? So from minute 43 to minute 63, your proposal would have us play with a big defensive hole, yet your solution is to waste a valuable sub to swap out two players how have nothing to do with the loss of Pouladi ? Again, when you are down a player, you make substitutions to bring in players that cover the extra ground. Swapping out Azmoun for Gucci does exactly what?

I don't mean to trivialize it, but that's like having a flat left rear tire, and fixing it by replacing the headlights that are not even faulty .....

you also claim JB and Amiri were not suited for "tracking back" ? did you not see the 3 or 4 times that JB successfully streaked back, made nice defensive stops and started the counter attack. That's why I say you should see the ENTIRE match, and not a few youtube video clips.

I don't think you understood one word in my post. Let me go step by step so it's easier to understand. When Pouladi was sent off, we had two logical choices:

1 - Bring in a defender to replace Pouladi (e.g. Sadeghi or Khanzadeh) and pull out an attacking midfielder (e.g. Haj/Shojaei/Ashkan).

2 - Drop Hajsafi back to replace Pouladi, don't make any other subs at that point and move Shojaei to LAM so the hole in CAM is covered by Ando and Nekou.

CQ opted to go with a combination of these two. I would have opted for option 2 and the reasons were given in my previous post, namely that Shojaei was a MUCH more experienced player in that position than Amiri, not to mention that we would have preserved a sub for later in the game.

So there would have been no hole in that position as you're suggesting. The hole would have been in the CAM position which could have been well covered by our two wingers, two defensive midfielders and a fresh striker.

That's the relevance of having brought in fresh striker. Was that easier to understand?

[OFFSIDE_1]

I don't think you understood one word in my post. Let me go step by step so it's easier to understand. When Pouladi was sent off, we had two logical choices:

1 - Bring in a defender to replace Pouladi (e.g. Sadeghi or Khanzadeh) and pull out an attacking midfielder (e.g. Haj/Shojaei/Ashkan).

2 - Drop Hajsafi back to replace Pouladi, don't make any other subs at that point and move Shojaei to LAM so the hole in CAM is covered by Ando and Nekou.

CQ opted to go with a combination of these two. I would have opted for option 2 and the reasons were given in my previous post, namely that Shojaei was a MUCH more experienced player in that position than Amiri, not to mention that we would have preserved a sub for later in the game.

So there would have been no hole in that position as you're suggesting. The hole would have been in the CAM position which could have been well covered by our two wingers, two defensive midfielders and a fresh striker.

That's the relevance of having brought in fresh striker. Was that easier to understand?

I don't think anybody understood a single point in your post.

This is an exact quote:

"I would have brought in Gucci for Azmoun at the beginning of the 2nd half and left Shojaei on until minute 63 as the LAM" which was a direct response to my question to you on who would you have brought in instead of Amiri.

but wait, you now have a new strategy:

You replace a Striker with another Striker, so effectively you are not addressing the hole we now have after losing a very good defensive LB. So you shift players from their natural positions, in this case Shojaei going from a CAM to the left side, which obviously it has been brought up many times that it's a crappy move. You then move both Nekounam and Ando into the CAM (by committee) position, which ofcourse is not the natural position for either one. So now, you have 3 players, playing out of position. You lose Ando's biggest strength which is disrupting the attacking team, you also remove Nekounam from his critical DM position, and ofcourse you have a slower Shojaei trying to cover all that ground with 45 minutes under his belt. So effectively, you just threw 3 players into positions of weakness, and you consider this to be an effective strategy?

Your logic is so flawed, that I think even you yourself did not understand what you just said.

Like I previously said, CQ brought in a player who could cover as much ground as possible without disrupting the whole team structure. Going down a player, as a coach the last thing you want do is make too many moves and also makes moves that cause the existing players to play away from their natural positions. You will never have an ideal substitution option anyways, and that's the reality when playing with 1 player down.

Hope what I said was even easier to understand ?

[Bi-honar]

Shojaei going from a CAM to the left side, which obviously it has been brought up many times that it's a crappy move.

LOL. It's been brought up many times by whom that it's crappy move?! Shojaei played as a LAM for TM many times, including under CQ. What part of Shojaei was the most experienced player in the squad to play in that position did you not understand?! Are you suggesting that Amiri was more experienced in TM in that position than Shojaei?!

You then move both Nekounam and Ando into the CAM (by committee) position, which ofcourse is not the natural position for either one.

Wow, you really are e-struggling! When did I say move Nekou and Ando into the CAM position?! I said "the hole would have been in the CAM position which could have been well covered by our two wingers, two defensive midfielders and a fresh striker."

This is essentially what ended up happening with CQ's change anyway. The only difference between the two scenarios is that we would have had two experienced wingers and a fresh striker to cover the hole in the CAM position in what I proposed, whereas we ended up having an inexperienced player + a tired striker trying to do the same thing. Not to mention that Shojaei was also more experienced in covering a CAM role than Amiri.

blah blah blah.... I think even you yourself did not understand what you just said.... blah blah blah.... I don't think anybody understood a single point in your post.

Au contraire. You're the one who's not understanding what you're sayin. You keep repeating the FALSE statement that Amiri was well suited to track back and cover ground, when he factually and CLEARLY did not do so.

Then, you suggest Shojaei, who played 78 minutes against Argentina and at 117 meters per minute, was our most active player ahead of even Nakou and Ando, was incapable of playing for more than 43 minutes against a shitty Iraq team!!!

It's tough to argue with someone who's hellbent on an opinion completely devoid of and FACTS being presented (be it a detailed analysis of Amiri's position and contribution on the 3 goals c/w clips and spy cams, Shojaei's history with TM and performance data, etc.).

[OFFSIDE_1]

LOL. It's been brought up many times by whom that it's crappy move?! Shojaei played as a LAM for TM many times, including under CQ. What part of Shojaei was the most experienced player in the squad to play in that position did you not understand?! Are you suggesting that Amiri was more experienced in TM in that position than Shojaei?!



Wow, you really are e-struggling! When did I say move Nekou and Ando into the CAM position?! I said "the hole would have been in the CAM position which could have been well covered by our two wingers, two defensive midfielders and a fresh striker."

This is essentially what ended up happening with CQ's change anyway. The only difference between the two scenarios is that we would have had two experienced wingers and a fresh striker to cover the hole in the CAM position in what I proposed, whereas we ended up having an inexperienced player + a tired striker trying to do the same thing. Not to mention that Shojaei was also more experienced in covering a CAM role than Amiri.



Au contraire. You're the one who's not understanding what you're sayin. You keep repeating the FALSE statement that Amiri was well suited to track back and cover ground, when he factually and CLEARLY did not do so.

Then, you suggest Shojaei, who played 78 minutes against Argentina and at 117 meters per minute, was our most active player ahead of even Nakou and Ando, was incapable of playing for more than 43 minutes against a shitty Iraq team!!!

It's tough to argue with someone who's hellbent on an opinion completely devoid of and FACTS being presented (be it a detailed analysis of Amiri's position and contribution on the 3 goals c/w clips and spy cams, Shojaei's history with TM and performance data, etc.).

Dude ...... By whom you say? By You .....

in fact in this poll, your vote was to COMPLETELY drop Shojaei, whether it was LAM or CAM, it made no difference. At least do a search on your previous comments and votes before you have another foot-in-the-mouth moment.

here is your exact quote:

Masoud's pretty old for someone playing in that position and he'll be leaving TM soon anyway. I think we have MUCH better options for starters for that position and CQ's playing style and even MUCH better options of younger players to sit on the bench or to come in as subs and to gain some experience in the Asian Cup.

We're all appreciative of the service he has done for TM, but the time comes where every player has to go and IMHO this is Shajaei's time before he loses any more fans or respect.

The fact that 4 out of 5 fans think he should not be a starter speaks volumes. The same poll conducted last year would have probably yielded much lower results and the year before than even lower.

here is another one:

"Other than the facts I mentioned above, there's a reason the guy was thrown out of 2nd division Spain and he's playing in relegation zone in Qatar when he most likely has EU residency and can play in any country he wants."

The above is your quote. You clearly state that he should not be in any lineup, and NOW, you change your tune.
YOU, also voted to completely drop the guy.



Also, CAM by committee means the position would be split between two players. Did you not get that either?? So instead of making snide remarks condescending comments, you really should at least cover up your tracks