surprise, surprise ... CQ refuses to play Italy

[xerexes]

The landing may not have been bad, but it is not a perfect 10 either? You guys (as rugs says collective you) feel like you have to always have a 10 or 0 for landing, but we know from all avenues of life that you can have degrees in between.

Yes, there are degrees in between but that's not what we're getting with threads like this or most of the criticism directed at CQ. We just keep getting distortions and silly agendas. There has been a small but vocal minority of posters who attached themselves to the idea that this coach is some kind of clueless coward and they've been on a mission to prove themselves right by grasping at every straw and defying facts and common sense.

Why not? A prime example is we had a world famous doctor who was a PFDC member a number of years back (not a regular). He was a friend of mine, and for a while he was talked about on the news relentlessly for his work with developing artificial hearts and being one of the first to perform the surgery as part of a medical team in the USA. People, heroes, experts can come from all walks of life. If someone has a dream, we know that "khastan = tavanestan"...anyone can be a coach anywhere. If I am not mistaken, CQ earned his college education from a University that I was affiliated with for a long time (I have heard rumours that CQ actually attended the Human Kinetics program at a University in Canada that I also studied at)...so in essence all our roots are humble in the beginning. A PFDC member surely can become a world famous coach one day if they put the time and dedication in.

Aspiring to reach a goal in a certain field is fine. But acting like you understand the topic better than someone who has already reached the highest level of that field is something else and not very rational. To use your doctor example, a pre-med student or someone who just watches medical dramas on TV cannot be taken seriously when he acts like he understands medicine just as well if not better than a world-renowned physician. This is the kind of attitude people notice and push back on.

[perspolis#1]

This argument is now strictly between domestic coach supporters and CQ supporters. Every coach on Earth has weaknesses. The real debate should be which coach has weaknesses that are more negligible based on what TM needs at the moment. Right now Team Melli needs rejuvenation, and to bring in youth. This is a job that only CQ and Mansourian(possibly) could pull off in Iran. Do you remember our last cycle with our WCQ playing Rezaei/Mobali/Kazemian/Pejman Nouri in TM? This is because once Branko left we had no one to fill the vacuum of searching for talent. I have to add that searching for talent is not CQ's job, but there is a gross lack of attention to youth development in Iran. GN prefers having the older, familiar faces in order to win league titles for himself for the year. That isn't noble of someone who would want success for TM but that isn't his job. CQ has to reshape our team because if we kept the same team for four years, I guarantee we will not qualify for 2018.

If you are a supporter of CQ, be assured that every man has made a mistake in coaching in his life. Last year, Pep was destroyed by Real Madrid for using the wrong tactics against Madrid, Simeone messed up yesterday and Mourinho crashed vs. PSG.

We must criticize coaches when they are wrong. It doesn't matter who they are, if they make a mistake, its a mistake. This is different than portraying a mistake of theirs because their decision is contrary to what you believe. At first, I thought excluding KB was a mistake in the WC squad, and then I saw how Dejagah/Gucci/Hosseini were getting physically outmatched by Nigeria. KB would not have helped us and CQ did what was best for his formation. CQ did not switch the formation after Pouladi's red card against Iraq and we lost because our left flank was exposed. THAT was a mistake. It's important to know the difference.

Both sides are too rigid and have to call out mistakes on an individual basis as opposed to naming a coach 'incompetent' for doing things you do not agree with. I think this debate will cool once CQ lovers realize that the reality is that our talent pool in Iran is much deeper than what CQ projects, and that CQ haters realize that the current coaches of our club teams would not have left with anything from the last world cup, due to tactical negligence.

[perspolis#1]

sure, but the three countries you mentioned are not 2 levels above us, therefore, and based on your conclusion playing them will not benefit us much,..unless you really think that they are at least 2 levels above us

They were examples of cheap, alternatives that give us more match practice and will prepare us better. Levels are subjective and in the case of Costa Rica, they beat Uruguay, Italy and tied England and they are quality regardless of the level we think they are initially . Playing New Zealand is the closest we can get to playing Australia without actually playing them. I don't have a linear system of how Iran matches up to every national team in the world, but any new team we play that is that is new and respectable is a bonus. I thought we were 2-3 levels above Albania and we weren't. I thought we were better than Guinea, we weren't. Many said that Egypt was declining but they beat Bosnia 3 months before we played them, and Bosnia really outplayed us.

If it sounds better, I'll change my previous statement to "Let's play any national team that has at least a 40% of beating us in a game". I believe we would win/lose 50% of the time against Uzbekistan/Costa Rica and just mentioned New Zealand as an alternative to playing countries like Kuwait/Jordan/Bahrain (who we have played so many times ke man baba/naneh hashoon ham mishnasam.)

Also, I agree with you about the African camps. Since we don't have to play in any hostile warm countries in a WC setting until 2022, we should have a majority of our camps in Europe/Iran(even Kish)

[O-ZoNe]

Of course they can but are any of us in that position now? I've been coaching for 15 years and am nationally certified but I think CQ knows more about a team he is currently coaching than I do regardless of what I achieve in the future.

But put it this way, I value your opinion and your 15 years of experience, as I value CQ's. I think if CQ himself preached what some members on this forum have, then even he himself would not hire all the help he has around him. Nor would he react the way he did when others assistants ditched TM. There is nothing wrong in sharing your opinion, experiences, or even relying on others for advice and help. I am about to reach the top of my field, you can go no higher, but I will always be a student and listen and learn from others.

My father has a wonderful expression..."learn from your own mistakes as well as from the mistakes of others"...by golly we all make mistakes, and CQ has as well. CQ is not perfect, and I am allowed to disagree with him. I disagree almost 50% of his moves and actions, and agree with about that much as well (neutral on some too). Sometimes my opinion changes, other times it is reinforced. People preach that because I disagree with him even 1% then I am a person who has an "agenda" or preference for vatani coach? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am the last person who wants CQ replaced with a vatani coach. But I will say that CQ should take on a more professional assistant than guys like AK8...someone like Aghajanian, or even Mansourian IMO make better coaches than AK8...certainly CQ was not right about AK8 now was he?

I think this doesn't boil down to a vatani vs CQ or CQ lover vs CQ hater...it boils down to respect...respecting each other in debates, respecting CQ's intelligence, experience, and professionalism, as well as respecting our own intelligence, experience, and professionalism. We should not have to sell ourselves short, or be sold short to agree or disagree with CQ. We all hate the way IFF is run and all the bs yet just look at this forum. Simply for an opinion members crucify others because "he/she doesn't get it, he she lacks professionalism...". Stop labelling people for their opinions...labels do nothing but classify and further solidify outdated and misrepresented beliefs. No one should be forced to agree with anyone simply for the "benefit of the doubt" or due to "Napolean syndrome". Professional sports, and success at life works on a system of checks and balances. What are your expectations and goals, and did you meet them? When was the last time any of you earned a raise or promotion, or got a job just on the "benefit of the doubt"?

[rugs]

The double standard shown by some here is beautiful.

It's as if they don't realize they say one thing and do another.

[Abtin]

Can someone sum up the kor-kori in this thread?

[rugs]

Can someone sum up the kor-kori in this thread?

There are some that like to state their opinion about another person's opinion but get upset when another person states their opinion about their opinion

[Doctor DOOM]

To me it is. And i certainly never said "don't talk".
It seems more like you cannot accept our criticism of your opinion. You're doing what you are criticizing others of doing.

Do criticize and debate my opinion. THAT, I have no problems with.

Problem starts when you and others, with no explanation or reasoning (other than utter submission and blind trust in what X decided/says/does) we are told that we are wrong or should not talk or criticize.
To put it in simple words, saying ''X knows best coz he's coached this and that'' is NOT reasoning or debate on a particular issue. Unless we are criticizing CQ's coaching at Madrid ... which we certainly are not.

[rugs]

Do criticize and debate my opinion. THAT, I have no problems with.

Problem starts when you and others, with no explanation or reasoning (other than utter submission and blind trust in what X decided/says/does) we are told that we are wrong or should not talk or criticize.
To put it in simple words, saying ''X knows best coz he's coached this and that'' is NOT reasoning or debate on a particular issue. Unless we are criticizing CQ's coaching at Madrid ... which we certainly are not.

But I never did any of that.

I simply asked if it could be possible that tm's own manager, who has reached high levels in his profession, might know more about what is best for the team he is managing than any of us.

[Ando Teymourian]

But I never did any of that.

I simply asked if it could be possible that tm's own manager, who has reached high levels in his profession, might know more about what is best for the team he is managing than any of us.

Even when he says he has no problem with criticizing his opinion, just going through his posts says otherwise.

Check his responses to people who debate with him. No disrespect to him, but he gets all bent out of shape way too fast.


It used to be that people who disagree with CQ get bombarded with comments, and it has slowly turned into anyone who agrees with CQ gets bombarded.

[Amin_]

To be fair, GN has not taken any courses in Europe. This was debunked a while ago. He watched a few practices at Leverkusen (or maybe it was Kaiserslautern) and asked for some made up certificate.

I heard he passed some managerial class at Bayer or ManU. or something.
Anyway, even if he hasn't got one, that wasn't my point. The point is:


* Some people are telling others that a professional football manager who has more experience and knowledge than them knows a thing or two more about how to build/manage teams. --> Sure, I agree with!

So in other words, we should refrain from criticizing every little thing because we simply don't have the knowledge/experience of a professional experienced football manager. --> Yes, I agree!


* The same people, however, grab every opportunity to criticize every little aspect of certain other coaches and at times act as if they are in the middle of every training, team talk, fitness programs, club administration etc. etc.


* So I asked whether these same people consider themselves more experienced/knowledgeable than a football manager who has been in the business for more than a decade, has won 7 titles, has managed teams at the highest Iranian/Asian levels, has coached some of the best Iranian players of the last decade, like Karimi, Mahdavikia, Hashemian, Nekounam, Teymourian, Rezaei, etc.
Ok, aslan let's leave the European classes for what it is.


Or could it be that some of these football managers perhaps know "a thing or two more about how to prepare their team" (to repeat their own words), than they do?!


* If the answers to those questions are all "yes's", and thus they consider themselves more knowledgeable/experienced than those coaches, then please share your resume and continue the criticism.

* If their answers are "no's", which is the case, then they should not use double standards and tell others to stick to their own business because they are no professional football managers while they themselves do the exact same with other coaches even though they do not have the same level of knowledge/experience in terms of managing/building teams!


===


And to clarify:

This had nothing to do with "GN vs. CQ"! I'm just trying to point out the clear double standards some people use! You could replace GN with Daei, EZ, Firooz Karimi etc. Hell, even Derakhshan probably has more football knowledge and more experience in managing teams thatn 99% of the members here.



I have said this before and will repeat it again: There is no question who is the better coach. CQ is a world class coach (especially to our standards) and we should be happy that he sticked with us for so long. That being said, that of course does not mean that he should never be criticized!

[Doctor DOOM]

Even when he says he has no problem with criticizing his opinion, just going through his posts says otherwise.

Check his responses to people who debate with him. No disrespect to him, but he gets all bent out of shape way too fast.


It used to be that people who disagree with CQ get bombarded with comments, and it has slowly turned into anyone who agrees with CQ gets bombarded.

I wouldn't try this ''naneh man gharibam'', mate. Especially when it comes to CQ.
We all have eyes and we all can see who gets bombarded.

Do I reply to counter arguments? Mostly yes. That's not called bent out of shape.
The shape bending starts when the counter argument is ''x knows best'' (in various forms) which shows the individual is either too lazy to go through the issue, or is so mindless that he's surrendered all his will and thought to another imperfect human.

[O-ZoNe]

But I never did any of that.

I simply asked if it could be possible that tm's own manager, who has reached high levels in his profession, might know more about what is best for the team he is managing than any of us.

I would disagree with "Simply" because you did not simply ask a quesiton. Anyways, answer to your question is yes, he might know more. But the reverse question you refuse to answer is "can he also possibly be wrong in some of his decisions?"...

[rugs]

I would disagree with "Simply" because you did not simply ask a quesiton. Anyways, answer to your question is yes, he might know more. But the reverse question you refuse to answer is "can he also possibly be wrong in some of his decisions?"...

I would love to hear your definition of simple if you don't think this question was indeed, simple.

But can you concede the point that maybe something is gained but because you (general you) are not a professional football manager you don't see it or understand?

Lol, dude, why do you keep making things up. When did I ever refuse to answer anything? Of course he can be wrong, but I would trust his judgment in manners related to the team he is managing over those who are not at his level in that profession.

[ashkan24]

With the scaredy cat despot gone we can finally manage to play some quality friendlies with respectable nations such as Italy to elevate ourselves rather than his birth place of Mozambique, or the likes of jordan and palestine...