Any analysis of CQ's performance must take into account our TALENT DROUGHT

[ali alipour]

It's funny people think we have genuine talent at the moment. Aside from 2-3 good players who aren't even performing at the moment in Europe we have nothing compared to the Daei, Karimi, Mahdavikia and etc era.

I feel you bro turkmenistan and oman have way more talent than iran. If it wasnt for queiroz we wouldnt even be tying these teams, 3-0 loss at best.

[ramingeles2000]

of course there is no evidence that CQ stayed because he saw potential, but what would be the biggest motive for him to stay in Iran rather than going to a bigger national team or going to a premier league or la liga team? An educated assumption would be that he see's something in our football that kept him here. Despite the lack of support he has received he STILL satyed.....I think Iran has grown on him over the years but that alone surely cant be enough for a reknowned foreign coach to stay. Im curious to know then.....what do you think the reason is that he stayed?

Very clear and simple answer to your question, CQ came in 2011 because of two things:
a) monetary incentive....the moeny he got in Iran he surely wouldn't have gotten in many other places. he explicitly said he wanted to coach a national team with a good chance of making the world cup which leads me to my next point.
b) at the time we had promising youngsters like hajsafi, afshin, ansarifard, and sadeghian along with some veteran players in nekounam, teymourian, hosseini, khalatbari, and rahamti which all had a promising make up for the 2014 WCQs so I don't agree at all that we were terrible by any means. Let alone the fact that we had our easiest drawing in our WCQ history.

^ all of that was his incentive to come in 2011.....thats a much different incentive than when he re-signed after the WC so plz dont make the 2 separate circumstances into 1.

JB is not a substitue, that is totally false. The only time he was ever a sub was his first month in the team when he was getting acclamated to dutch football but from that moment on, he was a consistent starter unless he was fighting off an injury like he is currently. JB has been a class above his oposition, there is no doubt in my mind that he will soon be where mahdavikia was when he tears it up for AZ this season when he gets fully fit again. Azmoun was 18 when he was coming off the bench for RUbin, a year later when he was 19 they starting rotating him in and out of the starting line up. Take into account this is one of the better/bigger clubs in the russian league too so quit belittling what these youngsters have done so far. Ezzi is unproven at the club level you're right, but he has held his own and done more in his 2-3 TM caps than any DM in Iran could, and the kid is a teen for crying out loud. I

TO answer your last question....I'm not saying that they are equivelant to mahdavikia, hashemian, karimi, rezaie, etc. but im saying that they have potential to be there one day. All those guys i just used as an example from the 2005-7 era you're talking about didn't turn that way over night or with a lack of experience. They did a lot to prove themselves and get noticed....these young guys we have are getting noticed earlier than they were and are backing it up. That to me shows a lot of promise.

Thanks for the thoughtful write up, aziz. To answer your first question, I think that he stayed for the same 2 reasons 99% of human beings stay at a job: because he receives a very competitive salary and because he feels appreciated. Imagine, every single country he visited with TM, waves of Iranians begged him to stay and supported him and gave him credit. Compare this to his prior experience in Portugal, where the Portuguese press lambasted him for not using Cristiano properly, or with his time at Man U, where, because Alex Ferguson refused to talk to the press, it was CQ's job to address the vicious British press every day and answer their absurd, insulting questions each and every day. In Man U CQ was always at odds with Roy Keane because CQ had so much power in coaching the team, and this created a stressful atmosphere too. Now, all the players obey him without question.

Simply put, the Iran job provides a coach like CQ with something he's never had before: an obedient set of players who respect him, and a fan base that adores him. Of course, he believes we have the potential to make the WC but we've always had that potential, regardless of what players are at his disposal.


I agree that our young players have a lot of potential. And I hope more than anything that Jahanbakhsh has the type of impact that Mahdavikia did. But so far, he hasn't matched what a young 20-22 year old Mahdavikia had achieved in the Bundesliga, and his role for team melli has yet to crystallize.

I think we both agree: there is a lot of potential, but the point is that potential doesn't equate to current abilities and my only point is that if CQ had talent like we'd had in prior generations, his results would be much better. I'm not saying our players aren't good, I'm saying that for iranian standards, we've had much much better so it's not fair to judge CQ without taking this fact into consideration.

CQ can drill the players, prepare them, ask for friendlies, etc, but at the end of the day, it takes that 1-2 seconds of quick thinking and reactions that GREAT players undergoing rigorous daily English/Italian/Spanish/German practices have (kia, hashemian, karimi, teymourian in his prime, nekounam) that makes the difference in international football.

If you look at past TMs, it was always moments of individual brilliance that won our greatest games, NOT being well-coached or organized defensively. Think about Daei's incredible through-ball to Azizi, Mahdavikia's incredible 1-on-1 run in WC98, Karimi's hat trick against SK, karimi's perfect cross to hashemian against Japan in 2005, nekounam's free kick against SK in WCQ2010 and all the goals we've scored off of set pieces (including Iran vs Mexico, Nekounam's goal against Saudi Arabia in WCQ2010, etc).

We had the players, but lacked the coaches. imagine if CQ had players like azizi, bagheri, daei, karimi etc in their prime!

[Doctor DOOM]

Wow. Could this thread be more tragically ill-timed ??? Hahaha. I don't think so.
With our youngsters winning the WAFF tournament, despite some one sided refereeing???


Lads like Aliyari (my new favorite player), Mohammad, Motahari, Cheshmi, Daneshgar, ... showing very mature and quality performances.


Hoo boy.... talk about absolute wrong timing.

[ramingeles2000]

More talent than all the countries outside Japan, Korea and Australia I'd say. Right now we have even more talented players than Australia as well Imo

You can't really believe that we have more talent than Australia, who just won the Asian Cup?

[ramingeles2000]

Wow. Could this thread be more tragically ill-timed ??? Hahaha. I don't think so.
With our youngsters winning the WAFF tournament, despite some one sided refereeing???


Lads like Aliyari (my new favorite player), Mohammad, Motahari, Cheshmi, Daneshgar, ... showing very mature and quality performances.


Hoo boy.... talk about absolute wrong timing.

Hoo boy, how our standards have fallen. I guess these days, the measure of Iranian football is our performance in the super-prestigious WAFF tournament.

[Doctor DOOM]

Everyone here is talking about "talent". Yes, we have talented players but so what? The structure and philosophy of our football is weak, hence even the most talented players don't grow and develop into top notch footballers. Our players lack discipline and don't fully understand the meaning of being a "professional footballer". Do you folks remember Karimi in BM? Yes, loads of talent, he lasted...what, was it 2 or 3 seasons with sporadic play time? In my opinion, our most successful players, those who are on par with the top layer of players in European leagues, were Daie, Hashemian, Nekoonam, and of course Mahdavikia - all the rest may have gotten their foot in the door but didn't have the mettle to remain as a long term fixture. Anyone remember the 2002 US WC team? Talk about mediocre talent. Yet, they managed to get themselves to the quarterfinals and barely lose to Germany 1-0. TALENT IS NOT ENOUGH!!!
I've always said, the most talented players I've played with were during my high school years in Iran but alas, talent only gets you so far, it discipline, work ethic and a clear strategy that'll allow you to succeed.

You are very correct. Simply having talent is not enough to make one a great player. One needs a lot of peripheral factors to result in a top quality player. Factors like proper facilities and infrastructure, good coaching, good league competition, good training, ... etc. etc.

But here, in this thread, the focus of the ... ahem ... 'defense' is lack of talent that is supposed to excuse lack of progress in quality of TM performances. And as far as the topic of presence or absence of talent in Iran is concerned, we certainly DO have talent ... and compared to majority of our continent, in abundance too.

[Doctor DOOM]

I did NOT say that. I said I pay taxes in the US, and I get to see how my tax dollars are spent in the US. Thus, people in Iran, who want to know how much CQ gets paid, have the right to know how much IFF pays the TM coach since public funds are paying his salary.

Edit: Here is the comment he is referring to:

http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...=1#post2330397

I do know how taxes work in Iran and how the bureaucracy in Iran works. Don't try to act like you are the know it all on all things Iranian.

My friend, I'm afraid with some people you might have to speak in ''baby English'' for them to understand your meaning. Next they'll ask you to produce your tax documents filed in Iran!!!! :shrug:




Edit (after reading a page further) - oh wait. They did ask!!!!! ridiculous

[ramingeles2000]

You are very correct. Simply having talent is not enough to make one a great player. One needs a lot of peripheral factors to result in a top quality player. Factors like proper facilities and infrastructure, good coaching, good league competition, good training, ... etc. etc.

But here, in this thread, the focus of the ... ahem ... 'defense' is lack of talent that is supposed to excuse lack of progress in quality of TM performances. And as far as the topic of presence or absence of talent in Iran is concerned, we certainly DO have talent ... and compared to majority of our continent, in abundance too.

again the reading comprehension issues arise...really ironic considering that you're insulting other members and saying they only understand "baby english" when it's clear from your posts you suffer from the same issue.

No one is saying we don't have talent compared to the rest of the continent. I'm simply pointing out the VERY OBVIOUS fact that in comparison to OURSELVES and PAST TM GENERATIONS we are lacking talent, and that therefore any evluation of TM's performances should take this into account. Any evaluation of TM's performance should also take into account the fact that we're attempting a generational overhaul right now, and are suffering growing pains.

And as for those training conditions, coaching, infrastructure, and other peripheral issues that are required in addition to talent....didn't our players 15 years ago have to suffer through the exact same conditions as the players today, if not worse? the answer is yes. so then what is the reason behind the fact that we can't place a single player into one of the top 4 leagues?

[Shah Abbas]

I love how so many people have fallen for CQ's clever plan. Since coming to Iran he has criticised everything we as a country have; from our infrastructure, all the way to our league and quality of players, in order to bring down expectations. So that when we draw to Oman, it's not too bad and when we draw against Japan, it's a massive accomplishment...

[Doctor DOOM]

I ?!
And you're saying that our performance at WC was the reason why more players didn't go to Europe??! are you serious? so you think it was our "epic performance" at WC2006 that allowed Nekounam, Shojaei and Ando to go to Europe right afterwards? Are you saying we had a better performance in WC2006? And you accuse other people of lacking reading comprehension??

No, I'm saying what you show to the world will more or less tally with what you reap later in transfers.

As bad as our 14 was which saw very little movement, the 06 was perhaps just as hopeless, which again saw very little movement. But compare it to the 98's more decent showing, where we saw comparatively more action in transfer markets.

Besides, I am not saying the WC showing is the be all and end all of transfers. It is in all international competitions like ASIA CUP also. These facilitate transfer prospects far smoother and probable compared to a cold sell done by clubs (Not impossible. But far more difficult) with very little success shown internationally.
A clear case in point is MK's 1996 team in Asia cup and 98 qualifiers that saw the biggest migration; Daei, Aziz, bagheri, pashazadeh, minivans, yazdani, nakisa, dinmohamadi, ....etc. Etc.





As for a comparison to previous generations, we also must include the general rule of ''ebb and flow'' in our assumptions. Nearly every country in the world of football experiences this. Even Brazil.
But having said that, I must say we're not doing any better or any worse than how we were doing 5 or 10 or 15 years back in terms of producing talent. Trust me, I follow youth football in Iran from the time Pashazadeh and co were a bunch of youngsters. So I'd have good enough and long enough set of data to refer to.

[rugs]

I love how so many people have fallen for CQ's clever plan. Since coming to Iran he has criticised everything we as a country have; from our infrastructure, all the way to our league and quality of players, in order to bring down expectations. So that when we draw to Oman, it's not too bad and when we draw against Japan, it's a massive accomplishment...

Well to be fair, CQ is not wrong. When you come into a country as mismanaged as Iran is, it is only natural that you, who were hired as a manager, try to correct the mismanagement.

It's hard to guess what his intentions are with these comments, but he is not wrong.

[ramingeles2000]

I love how so many people have fallen for CQ's clever plan. Since coming to Iran he has criticised everything we as a country have; from our infrastructure, all the way to our league and quality of players, in order to bring down expectations. So that when we draw to Oman, it's not too bad and when we draw against Japan, it's a massive accomplishment...

My friend, I know you don't believe what you're saying. CQ criticizes everything we have because our players, infrastructure, and league are all worthy of criticism. This isn't part of any plan, CQ throughout his career has ALWAYS been a hothead and said what's on his mind. It's gotten him into trouble before, too. His career hasn't been short on controversy, in large part because he doesn't take BS very well.

Why are you complaining? Why are we so insecure as a people that we have to be insulted by what he says, especially when it's the truth? Look at the effect of his words! Look at how IFF has gotten their act together and strung together more world-class friendlies for us in 12 months than ever before in our history. Look at the fact that players are flocking to Europe - ANY european team that will take them, even random teams in Greece and Russia - because he's made it clear that he values European experience. These are all positive developments. He's upped the standards by pointing out the obvious. Why are we so offended?

Of course a draw against Oman away isn't a bad result. Are you new to Iranian football? do you not realize they've always had our number, and that the playing field in asian football has leveled? Do you not realize that he's currently trying to introduce new young players? do you think that CQ really needs to play some sort of "game" by putting down Iran's resources in order to protect his job security? He has the most job security of any TM coach in history, doesn't he?

[Kiarash]

Yikes, cringe worthy when we call a coach ''king''.

[ramingeles2000]

No, I'm saying what you show to the world will more or less tally with what you reap later in transfers.

As bad as our 14 was which saw very little movement, the 06 was perhaps just as hopeless, which again saw very little movement. But compare it to the 98's more decent showing, where we saw comparatively more action in transfer markets.

Besides, I am not saying the WC showing is the be all and end all of transfers. It is in all international competitions like ASIA CUP also. These facilitate transfer prospects far smoother and probable compared to a cold sell done by clubs (Not impossible. But far more difficult) with very little success shown internationally.

I agree generally, but your contention that there was "comparatively more action in transfer markets" after WC98 compared to WC2006 is incorrect, which goes against your argument. In fact, our only positive export after the WC was Mahdavikia and (if you want to call it an export) Dinmohammadi. Bagheri, Azizi, Daei, and I'm fairly sure Minavand were already playing in Europe. Compare this to WC2006, where we had a terrible performance but the quality of Teymourian, Shojaei, and Nekounam led to La Liga and EPL berths.

[rugs]

I think people are missing the fact that our football has turned into a corrupt multi-billion dollar industry in the last 10-15 years run by people who don't give a damn about anything but $$.

People like Hashemian and Nekounam loved the game, that's why they played and made it top leagues from no where.

Most players today love the fame, that's why they play. They are not willing to work hard to make it.

It's as clear as day that our NT team lacks talent to select from. Sure there is potential, but that potential needs to be reached. And as of yet it hasn't.