CQ system prevented and is preventing TM players from moving to top Euro clubs

[rugs]

I get your point, but I find it hard to believe that clubs would go after someone based on 3 WC matches.

The clubs we hope our players go to are not IPL clubs. These clubs have scouts and do their research and don't make decisions based on a few flashy dribbles.

Therefore I cannot agree with it.

[Afat11]

Hajsafi was already a starter when he went to Europe so I'm not sure why he would go to Europe to solidify his position in tm. Ansarifard might be the only example of someone who did but even then he could have just went because he thought it was his last chance.
There's always complaints about the lack of Iranians in Europe but now apparently theyre flooring to Europe somehow because of cq. There is more than there was a few years back but not even close to a lot. And it's probably mostly because the young players are better and have gotten more tournament exposure than in years passed. There were a lot of Iranian players going to Europe in the Branko era do you think he had something to do with it?

These are all excellent assumptions to why we have a lot of players going to Europe, but we have proof that both Ezatollahi and Jahanbakhsh called CQ for advice on their transfers. Obviously they have a reason to ask TM coach, and neither went to Qatar as is always a possibility for any Iranian player. The fact that these young players are asking the coach for advice on their club careers would lead a rational person to assume that they are and have been acting in a way with their transfers to gain favor with the TM manager. If they didn't care and went just on a whim, because they're good or better than the last generation would not lead one to think they would be calling CQ for advice. If they were doing it all on their own without care for TM, neither would care of CQ's position on their club careers. Obviously both care about CQ's opinion as they should, so I will gladly and fully disagree with your assumptions.

Further, Hahsafi may lose his position in TM if he were stuck playing in IPL. He had been rotating between LM, CM, LB, and with the rises of Mohammadi, Amiri and Ezatollahi in positions he played, he needed a Euro transfer. If you're ignoring all the factors of why a player leaves IPL for Europe, it is easy to ignore these glaring issues. Everyone wants to be in Europe now on TM, because we have a lot of rising talent that is either already in Europe or will be soon. This was the result of the catalyst of CQ looking abroad 4 years ago and emphasizing that he did not care for the IPL's development of players and that European trained youngsters were better than IPL players.

I think you seemingly forget all this stuff as Dejagah and Gucci were coming and people were bashing CQ for caring about Eurppe so much. In this time, we've seen not only youngsters leave, but we've also see players of the last generation whose spots were being lost to better options (Ansarifard, Hajsafi) leaving to Europe. If you think Hajsafi is fixed in TM while we have a developing Mohammadi at LB, and Amiri at LM, you are sorely mistaken.

^i love how someone will see this post as angry. Like I said, I think people just don't like reading things that disagree with them. You made an argument, I'm laying out the facts for why I disagree. Does that make me angry or rage filled? I think people just don't want to read disagreement on this forum.

[ali alipour]

These are all excellent assumptions to why we have a lot of players going to Europe, but we have proof that both Ezatollahi and Jahanbakhsh called CQ for advice on their transfers. Obviously they have a reason to ask TM coach, and neither went to Qatar as is always a possibility for any Iranian player. The fact that these young players are asking the coach for advice on their club careers would lead a rational person to assume that they are and have been acting in a way with their transfers to gain favor with the TM manager. If they didn't care and went just on a whim, because they're good or better than the last generation would not lead one to think they would be calling CQ for advice. If they were doing it all on their own without care for TM, neither would care of CQ's position on their club careers. Obviously both care about CQ's opinion as they should, so I will gladly and fully disagree with your assumptions.

Further, Hahsafi may lose his position in TM if he were stuck playing in IPL. He had been rotating between LM, CM, LB, and with the rises of Mohammadi, Amiri and Ezatollahi in positions he played, he needed a Euro transfer. If you're ignoring all the factors of why a player leaves IPL for Europe, it is easy to ignore these glaring issues. Everyone wants to be in Europe now on TM, because we have a lot of rising talent that is either already in Europe or will be soon. This was the result of the catalyst of CQ looking abroad 4 years ago and emphasizing that he did not care for the IPL's development of players and that European trained youngsters were better than IPL players.

I think you seemingly forget all this stuff as Dejagah and Gucci were coming and people were bashing CQ for caring about Eurppe so much. In this time, we've seen not only youngsters leave, but we've also see players of the last generation whose spots were being lost to better options (Ansarifard, Hajsafi) leaving to Europe. If you think Hajsafi is fixed in TM while we have a developing Mohammadi at LB, and Amiri at LM, you are sorely mistaken.

^i love how someone will see this post as angry. Like I said, I think people just don't like reading things that disagree with them. You made an argument, I'm laying out the facts for why I disagree. Does that make me angry or rage filled? I think people just don't want to read disagreement on this forum.

Or they could have just been asking a coach with European experience's opinion on what would be better for their own development. Both Jahanbakhsh and ezatolahi asked for queiroz's opinion when they were already in Europe and already part of tm which goes towards my point that they didn't have contact with cq and he didn't have much influence on their initial moves. I think you overestimate the amount a player think of tm when making a move. I doubt many players think "what would make tm better" when making a move.

And milad Mohammad plays more of a left mid or wing position for u23 and rah ahan from what I've seen. So neither one of mohammadi or amiri would be threatening hajsafi's current position in tm which is left back

[Afat11]

Or they could have just been asking a coach with European experience's opinion on what would be better for their own development. Both Jahanbakhsh and ezatolahi asked for queiroz's opinion when they were already in Europe and already part of tm which goes towards my point that they didn't have contact with cq and he didn't have much influence on their initial moves. I think you overestimate the amount a player think of tm when making a move. I doubt many players think "what would make tm better" when making a move.

And milad Mohammad plays more of a left mid or wing position for u23 and rah ahan from what I've seen. So neither one of mohammadi or amiri would be threatening hajsafi's current position in tm which is left back

It seems we also disagree on how fix Hajsafi is in his position. I think that if Pooladi was not banned, Hajsafi would be on the bench and used as a utility sub with Amiri starting LM. Hajsafi is a jack of all trades, but a master of none, and I don't think CQ is looking for a starter like that. I could be wrong and we could assume that with Pooladi present, Hajsafi would be starting LB, but I personally don't think so.

It seems we disagree on fundamental arguments, and we're basically just repeating ourselves at this point. I post so that this forum does not become diluted in anti-CQ threads and posts and people should have the ability to see both sides instead of 10 self-congratulatory posts about how much our coach sucks. Sorry if people think I'm dumb or stupid, but these arguments are necessary for a forum to represent both sides. I think I made some valid points and you disagree. That is fine. I'm tired of this "u mad bro" version of arguing some members here have adopted. No, I'm not mad, bro, I'm just having an argument on an Internet forum made for people to disagree. I have a thorough disagreement with how many people here think, and I'm free to disagree. People should stop cursing and belittling as a response and instead argue like ali alipour has done after his first comment which was dismissive in tone and worthless to the overall argument. We can and should argue our opinions though. People should acknowledge that they should not fall to simple insults as responses to disagreement.

[ehsan singapore]

what a joke, are you serious is his fault?clubs want billions of dollars and is cq faut?why he is national team coach, he bring the best and use them,

[Ando Teymourian]

I have always been a big CQ fan and I feel he has contributed positively to TM and our Football in many ways. (You can read my previous posts as proof)

I'll name the positives before I discuss why I think he is partly the blame for TM players not moving to Top Euro leagues:

1. Brought professionalism to TM (No player above team, discipline, team comradery)
2. Great Defensive System- that has been a weak point of past TM coaches
3. Very good at set pieces, modern set piece strategies
4. Calling out IFF, and sport ministry incompetence
5. Exposing the awful infrastructure TM has (training facilities etc.

The negative:

He plays very conservative and defensive football, focuses too much on results vs. harbouring and utilizing the talents
World cup is meant for player's talent and skills to be put on display for the world to see, however in Brasil 2014 the super defensive and very lethargic style of play did not allow for our full player's potential to be exposed to team scouts.

All players were chess pieces that moved based on CQ orders, non had the freedom to display themselves and you can see by his selection that he chose mainly structured players that could not demonstrate TM creativity like:

Khalatbari, Sadeghian, Rahman, Alishah, Sharifi, etc.

Further more he did not take too many Young players or give them a chance to play full games as he focused too much on results.

Iran must have ranked last in the World Cup for having players exported to top leagues. We even had our Euro players move to Arab leagues.

All in all CQ got results for us but through his player selection and game plan, TM players were not able to shine and demonstrate the value they can add to top tier European leagues.

Some can argue that lack of friendly games prevented him from giving the young a chance to gain experience or build better offensive flow. But in the limited friendly games he used all the old timers.

We should demand CQ to allow for young players to show their skill set or stop complaining that Japan has players in Euro and Iran doesn't.
Also he should really lose the inferirity complex he has with TM. As if Japan is some god sent country A++ team that we played.

How many players did we move to Europe between 2007 - 2011? If I remember correctly, we moved a total of zero new players to Europe. And in total we had 3 players in Europe (Masoud and Nekounam in Spain, Zandi in Cyprus for a year).

Sadeghian? Alishah? What were they doing before the WC? Sadeghian was fighting everyone he saw, and Alishah was not as good as he is this year. And Rahmani was with the team.

You can make a case for Khalatbari, but I can also make the case that he was too much of a liability. All it would take would be one of his many turnovers in dangerous areas for a team to pounce on us. IMO he was more likely to cost us a goal than to create one for us, although against Bosnia I will admit he would have been a nice to have.


A national team coach's main priority is to get his team results. Does it not sadden you that we have to rely solely on our national team(s) to send players to Europe?

On the other hand, our clubs are asking for ridiculous amounts of money to sell a player to European teams (Hazami), or can't get a player's paperwork in order (Afshin, Oladi, Mohammadi), but we have become so accustom to their incompetence that we don't mention it any more. Rather we go after the national team coach.

CQ is here to get results. What was everyone saying the main goal was when we hired him? WC or bust. It's so strange how quickly we forget. Since he accomplished that mission with first in our group and fewest goals conceded, all of a sudden he is responsible for a myriad of other tasks.


As for the bold part, you and I don't demand anything. A coach has the right to field whoever he wants and play whatever tactics he believes best. Just like GN had the right to play Khatibi and Enayati, just like Daei had the right to not invite Ali Karimi during crucial WCQ, etc.....

As for "inferiority complex", that is your opinion. If you watch the great coaches of the world (in any sport), psychology is a fair portion of their job. Look at how the US national team always shows themselves as the underdog when going into games, this is something that many coaches do in sports. It is not an "inferiority complex", it is a method into which a lot of study and thought has gone into, and is something that casual fans who have never spent 30 seconds in the realm of professional sports can really talk about.

[ShiroKhorshid]

When Carlos became TM coach in April 2011:
Nekounam and Shojaei (Osasuna), Karimi (Schalke)
Karimi however went back to Perspolis straight after so basically we had 2 players in europe.

Today:
Hajsafi (FSV), Davari (Bielefeld), Ghoochannejhad (Charlton), Jahanbakhsh (Alkmaar), Ansarifard (Panionios), Haghighi (Rubin Kazan), Azmoun & Ezzatolahi (Rostov)


So can we close this thread? If anything CQ motivated the players and told them to go to europe. Maybe before his time our players wouldnt have signed for clubs such as Rostov, Panionios, FSV or NEC as they were waiting for offers from Bayern, Chelsea, Barca or Juventus.

[Afat11]

When Carlos became TM coach in April 2011:
Nekounam and Shojaei (Osasuna), Karimi (Schalke)
Karimi however went back to Perspolis straight after so basically we had 2 players in europe.

Today:
Hajsafi (FSV), Davari (Bielefeld), Ghoochannejhad (Charlton), Jahanbakhsh (Alkmaar), Ansarifard (Panionios), Haghighi (Rubin Kazan), Azmoun & Ezzatolahi (Rostov)


So can we close this thread? If anything CQ motivated the players and told them to go to europe. Maybe before his time our players wouldnt have signed for clubs such as Rostov, Panionios, FSV or NEC as they were waiting for offers from Bayern, Chelsea, Barca or Juventus.

No, CQ is actively holding our players back. We have all of those players in Europe in spite of CQ! Bring back Daei w/ assistant Mayelikohan and we will have players in Barca and Real. Mark my words. CQ is the true problem with our football.

/s

[ShiroKhorshid]

People forget that during Daeis time Ebrahim Assadi was TM captain for few matches or that Ghalenoei appointed a 37 year old Fekri as TM captain vs South Korea
God im so happy those times are over. Khodaro shokr

[Afat11]

People forget that during Daeis time Ebrahim Assadi was TM captain for few matches or that Ghalenoei appointed a 37 year old Fekri as TM captain vs South Korea
God im so happy those times are over. Khodaro shokr

But we lost to Lebanon and Uzbeks, and we don't play the same beautiful offensive tactics we used to lose to Saudis at home, tie EVERY away game we played, and crush UAE 1-0 and North Korea 2-1 at home. Truly, I miss the days of this offensive football that people expect of TM.

People don't want to accept that we had the greatest team we will likely see in our LIFETIMES in 1998-2006, but yeah let's laugh at people who don't understand that Azmoun and Jahanbakhsh are as good as Karimi, Daei, Azizi, Bagheri, Nekounam, in their primes...

Why is it so wrong to acknowledge that our players are all young and not as good as the teams that could have literally had a monkey coaching them in 1998-2006 and been successful. The fact we didn't qualify for 2002 and didn't win every single Asian Cup with that talent is sad, and people diss CQ. At least he got us to the world cup on the backs of Mohammad Nouri, Pejman Nouri, an aging Nekounam, Shojaei, etc. None of our players in the road to WC 2014 were close to their counterparts in 1998-2006. But yeah, anybody who thinks we lack talent in comparison to those times is stupid!

We don't suck today, but it's laughable to insinuate we're even close to the talent we had back then in our Golden Generation. Imagine what a coach with actual defensive tactics could have done with Mahdavikia, Hashemian, Daei, Azizi, Karimi, Bagheri when they were prime and playing in 2002. Some of you will say, but he lost to Lebanon!!

We had a late-20's Karimi, a still active in Europe Mahdavikia, Hashemian, Zandi, Nekounam, Shojaei and a few other good players in the 2010 RTWC. Who did we have other than Dejagah and Gucci who joined the last year or two of qualification and possibly Khalatbari? We had a solid defense in the road to Brazil, which CQ knew was our strength, and we used that tactic to make luck for ourselves using players like the Nouris, Ghazi, Jabbari, etc. who were not the same quality as 2010's qualification team. Yes, today we have good players developing, but people ignore who CQ had to rely on during the road to Brazil. They think we had some crazy good team, but in reality we played with a C-Team due to major injuries to our only few decent players against Lebanon. We lost to Oman 3-1 with a C-Team on the Road to Brazil. Now, we have young and untrained players developing in TM and gelling together, but people expect to see automatic results. I cannot believe how dense some people are to ignoring these obvious issues, but that's the fact. If CQ's players develop and gel more, they will be stronger going into WC 2018. The fact that you expect Torabi and Dejagah to be reading each other's minds and doing tiki-taka passing to make our offense look good after they've played together maybe 4 times is laughable.

So, please, someone, explain to me why our players are so much better now than our GOLDEN era, and explain to me how CQ should be able to train our players in the 10 days before games to gel with each other in their first matches together. Also, please explain to me how our loss to Lebanon or Oman was even close to a full-strength line-up for us.

Our Guinea match had Haddadifar and everyone's favorite players Beitashour and Davari starting. These were games where we were either experimenting or had weaker line-ups, but these matches show CQ's flaws.

When we have a team playing fluidly and powerfully like against Chile or Japan, "oh, that's just the players ignoring CQ's tactics."

Maybe those games actually reflect what CQ is trying to do with the team, but sometimes the players have bad days? Is that too farfetched an analysis of TM football?

[sedee91]

I kind of would disagree with "TM Homeboy". CQ is a defensive coach, so his favorite tactic is to play defense. But our talented players should act like talented players from the very start in order to get scouted to Europe. For instance, there are many clubs and players who do not want to play for TM's other teams such U23 and U21 because they feel that it maybe a waste of their time. Players like Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh and Ezatollahi barely played for their clubs for a long term, but went Europe based on their performances in U21 games and tournaments. I'm sure Vingada would have been our U23 headcoach if other players were released or wanted to play for the team, but no-one wants to apparently "waste their time" for unimportant games. These games are scouted, and we all know if the U23 team qualifies for the Olympics everyone would want to play for team just to get noticed. But in order to do that we have to field all the best players we have, so they can noticed and try to move to Europe or our coaches can call-up players from European teams in order to eventually play for TM, such as Mahan Baghadi who got called up a few times. There are a lot of talents out there, but we have to use them the right away or we will eventually get players who turn out Like (Mehdi) Rahmati, and (Hadi) Aghili.

[CAGE]

I'm not a hater brother, I'm looking at it objectively.
We cannot get Players to Europe with this style of play, we will get results but TM players all look like inferior players that need to play zone defense so they don't get out skilled.
Top tier teams aren't gonna scout players that play scared.

No... we cant get players to Europe because the Obama administration has put the tighest sanctions on Iran world wide in our history, even if a club was interested all that paper work and costs of getting a player set up isn't worth it for them (in first world countries ex germany, UK) and secondly Qatari clubs buy our players for great salaries tht are hard to resist.

[Afat11]

No... we cant get players to Europe because the Obama administration has put the tighest sanctions on Iran world wide in our history, even if a club was interested all that paper work and costs of getting a player set up isn't worth it for them (in first world countries ex germany, UK) and secondly Qatari clubs buy our players for great salaries tht are hard to resist.

Do people know that EPL, Bundesliga and many other leagues are restricting their foreign player limit every year? It's getting harder and harder to be signed by Euro teams every year, as these nations try to use their leagues to improve their national teams. It can be argued that the sanctions were as bad in 2006 when we had more than a few players going to Europe and Ahmadinejhad was in office. The main issue is that in 2006, an EPL team could want 10 Asian International players, and if they were good enough, they would get signed.

Today, with the leagues limiting these teams to only a few foreign player spots, they are very selective in who they pick. Now if they want 10 Asian players, they also have 10 African players they are scouting, etc. It is getting harder for many players to transfer into Europe, and I think people ignore this. Especially the top leagues. Maybe we have a few players who deserve to be in Germany or England top-flight now, I would argue we do, and maybe they would have been in those leagues in 2006, but with the new structuring of these leagues in favor of domestic players, it's just not as easy. Jahanbakhsh or Azmoun would have to really prove themselves on a club and international level for a team to take the risk of using them as one of their few open foreign player spots.

I just think that this simple blaming of CQ as the reason for our players not transferring is sad. I can understand that there are many variables for the reason our football isn't reaching its potential. IFF idiocy, IPL quality, CQ and TM's inconsistent performances (yes, I can concede it is one factor, but not the main or sole factor), stricter European league foreign player rules, our players being young and the team being transitional...

I don't know if this sounds crazy or what. I have a feeling that someone is going to tell me to calm down again, but I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. Don't blame one person or one thing. Don't scapegoat our players or our coaches. Look at the bigger picture. I post all these issues and flesh them out in my previous posts, but I guess fleshing out your ideas makes you crazy these days. I recommend someone look at how I breakdown my points, and maybe use them to respond to me in the future. Other than ali alipour putting forth some decently organized arguments to oppose me today, nobody else who thinks I'm angry or whatever even tried to argue their points with me. I hope some of you will learn to put your ideas down on the keyboard and let me know why my ideas are wrong. Don't just give me simple ideas either. Flesh them out, explain why you're correct, give me factors of your argument, the different variables you believe are at play. I'm just sick of posting all these things, and getting back "but dude, we play a boring style." or some other simplistic answer. I can concede the other sides arguments if I am proven incorrect, but nobody even argues. They just attack my personal credibility, which seems like a very low place to sink to. I hope for better days for PFDC.

[Shah Abbas]

I think CQ has been a key factor in preventing our players to go to Europe. However, it's crazy to say he is the single reason behind it.

In the past, our football system at TM, was mostly offensive, hence, the players that managed to get attraction in Europe were Midfielder/Strikers e.g. Daei/Hashemian/Azizi etc.
While CQ's ultra-defensive system has no place for flashy players - it rather opens the way for physical and defensive players. Now here is the problem, 'most' of the physical and defensive players that are invited by CQ and play in TM are too old to get any attraction in Europe! Teymourian is a powerful player that fits well in CQ's system but he is too old for any European club to show interest in him. Our two centre backs have performed fantastically since CQ has come, but which European club is going to buy a 33 year old and a 32 year old? In contrast, when CQ plays the younger players in Defence, they do get attraction from foreign clubs, like Pouraliganji (obviously went to China - but if he was playing in the world cup, could've been in Europe?)

Overall, the current system benefits defensive players - however, they don't end up in Europe because CQ plays the older ones (hopefully, we see more of Ganji and Kanaani in vital games)

[Doctor DOOM]

Due to all the factors involved in transfers of Asian players to Europe (don't want to recount them again. By now you all should know), Iranian players in particular have to work twice as hard to even get noticed. Because for iranian players in particular, there are even more obstacles in the way.
So yes, the argument that CQ's style affects them attracting scouts is true. Because he wants a very structured game and every player has to play in his ''box'', with great emphasis on defense, which naturally prohibits the kind of moves that would attract attention.
Now, lets not be silly and say we're blaming all the ills of our football on CQ. Ridiculous. Nobody is. But we also can't deny his impact on this matter. As our generally poor showing at the WC is testament to it.
And btw, it's not only the WC. It's any international outing, including the asia cup , youth tournaments (where players like JB, Azmoun, Ezzatollahi, Mohammadi, ... attracted interest), and so on.