CQ system prevented and is preventing TM players from moving to top Euro clubs

[Bi-honar]

When Carlos became TM coach in April 2011:
Nekounam and Shojaei (Osasuna), Karimi (Schalke)
Karimi however went back to Perspolis straight after so basically we had 2 players in europe.

Today:
Hajsafi (FSV), Davari (Bielefeld), Ghoochannejhad (Charlton), Jahanbakhsh (Alkmaar), Ansarifard (Panionios), Haghighi (Rubin Kazan), Azmoun & Ezzatolahi (Rostov)

That breakdown doesn't look right at all my good sir.

In April 2011 (when CQ took over), at the very least the the following players that I know of were playing in Europe: Nekounam, Shojaei, Karimi, Dejagah, Gucci, Davari, O. Nazari, Rajabalifard
> Total 8

The following players that I know of (the real list is probably much longer) have moved to or had trials in Europe without having played a single match for TM (i.e. we can't credit CQ with their move at all): Azmoun, Ezi, Haghighi, Jahanbakhsh, Milad Mohammadi (since Afat mentioned Mohammadi earlier)
> Total 4 signed + 1 trial

So in reality the only two players who have moved to Europe since 2011 (in nearly 5 years which is a VERY long time) after having played in TM under CQ are Ansarifard and Hajsafi.

And if we really want to be objective, Osasuna's signing of Karim had more to do with him being the top scorer in the PGL and Nekou's efforts, than it did with him being a prolific scorer for TM or having got any meaningful exposure in the WC or under CQ - I mean in the 2-1/2 years before he got signed the guy had scored only two goals for TM in a couple of meaningless matches - hardly a reason for a striker to be signed.

That pretty much leaves Ehsan as the sole benefactor of having played in TM under CQ and I haven't been following him too closely in Frankfurt, but wasn't he a midfielder for Sepahan and got signed for a similar position in Frankfurt, whereas he was being used almost exclusively as a LB under CQ in recent times and most often looking pretty bad in that position - I mean seriously, would you have signed the guy after any of his performances as a LB in TM?!

[OFFSIDE_1]

I have always been a big CQ fan and I feel he has contributed positively to TM and our Football in many ways. (You can read my previous posts as proof)

I'll name the positives before I discuss why I think he is partly the blame for TM players not moving to Top Euro leagues:

1. Brought professionalism to TM (No player above team, discipline, team comradery)
2. Great Defensive System- that has been a weak point of past TM coaches
3. Very good at set pieces, modern set piece strategies
4. Calling out IFF, and sport ministry incompetence
5. Exposing the awful infrastructure TM has (training facilities etc.

The negative:

He plays very conservative and defensive football, focuses too much on results vs. harbouring and utilizing the talents
World cup is meant for player's talent and skills to be put on display for the world to see, however in Brasil 2014 the super defensive and very lethargic style of play did not allow for our full player's potential to be exposed to team scouts.

All players were chess pieces that moved based on CQ orders, non had the freedom to display themselves and you can see by his selection that he chose mainly structured players that could not demonstrate TM creativity like:

Khalatbari, Sadeghian, Rahman, Alishah, Sharifi, etc.

Further more he did not take too many Young players or give them a chance to play full games as he focused too much on results.

Iran must have ranked last in the World Cup for having players exported to top leagues. We even had our Euro players move to Arab leagues.

All in all CQ got results for us but through his player selection and game plan, TM players were not able to shine and demonstrate the value they can add to top tier European leagues.

Some can argue that lack of friendly games prevented him from giving the young a chance to gain experience or build better offensive flow. But in the limited friendly games he used all the old timers.

We should demand CQ to allow for young players to show their skill set or stop complaining that Japan has players in Euro and Iran doesn't.
Also he should really lose the inferirity complex he has with TM. As if Japan is some god sent country A++ team that we played.

ah, yes ..... and that is the core of our problem. He focuses too much on results .......

I think people may have a misunderstanding of what the role of a national team coach is. CQ was hired to take us to the worldcup. He is not a football agent. He is also not running a football camp to showcase players for foreign leagues. That is not his job.

His job is to win on the pitch and get us results so we can see our team in the worldcup every 4 years and not once every 8 to 12 years.

We don't need players getting into fights with each other (oman game)
We don't need players refusing to enter a worldcup match
We don't need players creating drama by quitting, going on Navad, and then coming back.
We don't need teams that are run by players.
We don't need players forcing their way into teams because of corruption.


If players chooses qatar over Europe, it is not CQ's fault.

[ShiroKhorshid]

That breakdown doesn't look right at all my good sir.

In April 2011 (when CQ took over), at the very least the the following players that I know of were playing in Europe: Nekounam, Shojaei, Karimi, Dejagah, Gucci, Davari, O. Nazari, Rajabalifard > Total 8

The following players that I know of (the real list is probably much longer) have moved to or had trials in Europe without having played a single match for TM (i.e. we can't credit CQ with their move at all): Azmoun, Ezi, Haghighi, Jahanbakhsh, Milad Mohammadi (since Afat mentioned Mohammadi earlier) > Total 4 signed + 1 trial

So in reality the only two players who have moved to Europe since 2011 (in nearly 5 years which is a VERY long time) after having played in TM under CQ are Ansarifard and Hajsafi.

And if we really want to be objective, Osasuna's signing of Karim had more to do with him being the top scorer in the PGL and Nekou's efforts, than it did with him being a prolific scorer for TM or having got any meaningful exposure in the WC or under CQ - I mean in the 2-1/2 years before he got signed the guy had scored only two goals for TM in a couple of meaningless matches - hardly a reason for a striker to be signed.

That pretty much leaves Ehsan as the sole benefactor of having played in TM under CQ and I haven't been following him too closely in Frankfurt, but wasn't he a midfielder for Sepahan and got signed for a similar position in Frankfurt, whereas he was being used almost exclusively as a LB under CQ in recent times and most often looking pretty bad in that position - I mean seriously, would you have signed the guy after any of his performances as a LB in TM?!

I dont even know what to reply, or are you being sarcastic?

Mozuo nagereftam

[Bi-honar]

I dont even know what to reply, or are you being sarcastic?

Mozuo nagereftam

No, not being sarcastic at all - just presenting the facts in the 1st-3rd paragraphs, and fact+conjecture(opinion) the 4th & 5th paragraph.

Ultimately facts are what's needed to look at anything objectively and that facts you presented were not correct based on the information that I have, which is what I provided.

Now, you can challenge those facts by coming back and saying the information I provided is not correct because based on such and such reference Davari, Gucci, Dejagah and Nazari were not playing in Europe in April 2011.

Or that Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Haghighi, etc. moved to Europe after having played for CQ. Or anything else really that you may find non-factual.

[MR.S]

When watching iran allstars against world allstars in azadi The iranian allstars team reminded me of how tm used to play without cq a beatiful attacking fotball while at the same time we lost the game with 3 goals. Cq once said these are the players we got after the worldcup, like it or not he told the truth. Before the wc the likes of azmoun barely got any playing time in their clubs, same with the u23 players . Lets be realistic eaven crazy cq bashers wouldnt risk using unexposed ipl youth players and a 17 year ezatollahi in atletico b youth team before our legionaires. Or would they?

[Zamboor]

When watching iran allstars against world allstars in azadi The iranian allstars team reminded me of how tm used to play without cq a beatiful attacking fotball while we lost the game with 3 goals. Cq once said these are the players we got after the worldcup, like it or not he told the truth. Before the wc the likes of azmoun barely got any playing time in their clubs, same with the u23 players . Lets be realistic eaven crazy cq bashers wouldnt risk using unexposed ipl youth players and a 17 year ezatollahi in atletico b youth team before our legionaires. Or would they?

Beautiful football? I'm sorry man but i dont remember beautiful football during Daei, Ghotbi etc. The only thing beautiful that happened ni those games was ali karimis touch and nekounams free kicks and sometime shojaei did some magic as well

[MR.S]

Beautiful football? I'm sorry man but i dont remember beautiful football during Daei, Ghotbi etc. The only thing beautiful that happened ni those games was ali karimis touch and nekounams free kicks and sometime shojaei did some magic as well

Zamboor i didnt mention daei ghotbi or etc nor beatiful footboll? i wrote betiful attacking football And I didnt even mention the specific era but since u mention that u just remember karimi and etc here is a reminder for u, Iran vs Mexico first half wc 2006 and many other games before that!!!!!

[zare3900]

I'm not a hater brother, I'm looking at it objectively.



We cannot get Players to Europe with this style of play, we will get results but TM players all look like inferior players that need to play zone defense so they don't get out skilled.

Top tier teams aren't gonna scout players that play scared.

National team style has nothing to do with the Clubs liking players or not!. That is a very stupid way of looking at it. Its the capability of the player that gets him to move to europe! Jahanbaksh moved to Holland before TM and he is still there after starting to play for TM. All of our good players just decided not to go to Europe. Haj Safi could have gone many years ago but he went now. (FYI he went to europe while playing for TM). Amiri can make it to europe but he started late. He is 25 now and just joined TM last year. Same with Pour Ali Ganji. But both will go to europe one day.

[TM homeboy]

ah, yes ..... and that is the core of our problem. He focuses too much on results .......
I think people may have a misunderstanding of what the role of a national team coach is. CQ was hired to take us to the worldcup. He is not a football agent. He is also not running a football camp to showcase players for foreign leagues. That is not his job.
His job is to win on the pitch and get us results so we can see our team in the worldcup every 4 years and not once every 8 to 12 years.
We don't need players getting into fights with each other (oman game)
We don't need players refusing to enter a worldcup match
We don't need players creating drama by quitting, going on Navad, and then coming back.
We don't need teams that are run by players.
We don't need players forcing their way into teams because of corruption.
If players chooses qatar over Europe, it is not CQ's fault.

Well the thread was named CQ system prevented and is preventing TM players from moving to top Euro clubs which is not questioning his result oriented tactics, it is just saying that his system does not allow for Iranian players to showcase their talents and strengths.
His system is mainly meant to showcase his talents, which is fair as his style probably got us into the World Cup to begin with, but he should not complain about lack of Legionnaires as his system is partly the blame.

[TM homeboy]

National team style has nothing to do with the Clubs liking players or not!. That is a very stupid way of looking at it. Its the capability of the player that gets him to move to europe! Jahanbaksh moved to Holland before TM and he is still there after starting to play for TM. All of our good players just decided not to go to Europe. Haj Safi could have gone many years ago but he went now. (FYI he went to europe while playing for TM). Amiri can make it to europe but he started late. He is 25 now and just joined TM last year. Same with Pour Ali Ganji. But both will go to europe one day.

The World Cup has always been used as a platform for TM players to showcase their talents, if CQ establishes a super defensive strategy and closed team defense. TM players will not have a chance to showcase their talents.


Trust me if in 1998 Mahdavikia, Azzizi, Daie and Bagheri were instructed to play extra defensive and have an area to patrol and not deviate from rigid instructions, They probably would not stand out like they did and they would at best gotten offers from Russian league, German and Holland 2nd division leagues.

[TM homeboy]

PS I def don't blame CQ entirely for our players not going to Europe or remaining there:
Other major reasons include:
1. Speaking full English is not common among our players
2. Youth development is poor
3. Infrastructure and facilities for fitness is awful
4. Iran is considered a piro state
5. We do not participate in enough international friendlies or Tournaments
6. Money offered from Arab or IPL Teams (with no tax or high cost of living in Euro)

[ramingeles2000]

this thread is complete nonsense unfortunately.
we don't have players in top european clubs because our players simply aren't good enough. blaming CQ for it - on the basis of the reasons provided here - is so incredibly dumb that it's almost not worth replying to.

European clubs have every chance to scout a player's club team performances. our best player in the IPL a couple years back, for example, Ansarifard - has shown that he's a below average player on a very average Greek club squad. Hajsafi was only able to go to a bundesliga 2 team despite TONS of exposure.

I caution all members to be wary of the members who watch IPL religiously - these folks are so caught in the IPL bubble that they lose their objectivity. They think that because a player in the IPL can dribble past 4 Bargh Shiraz defenders, that they deserve to be in Barcelona and that the only reason they're not is because of 1) a global conspiracy or bias against iranians 2) CQ 3) Israel lol.

If it weren't for CQ we'd have fewer players in Europe.

[ramingeles2000]

Due to all the factors involved in transfers of Asian players to Europe (don't want to recount them again. By now you all should know), Iranian players in particular have to work twice as hard to even get noticed. Because for iranian players in particular, there are even more obstacles in the way.
So yes, the argument that CQ's style affects them attracting scouts is true. Because he wants a very structured game and every player has to play in his ''box'', with great emphasis on defense, which naturally prohibits the kind of moves that would attract attention.
Now, lets not be silly and say we're blaming all the ills of our football on CQ. Ridiculous. Nobody is. But we also can't deny his impact on this matter. As our generally poor showing at the WC is testament to it.
And btw, it's not only the WC. It's any international outing, including the asia cup , youth tournaments (where players like JB, Azmoun, Ezzatollahi, Mohammadi, ... attracted interest), and so on.

how was our showing in the world cup "generally" poor? it was an average world cup by team melli standards. and if it weren't for some bad officiating, we'd be calling it the great TM performance of all time.

[TM homeboy]

i don't buy the argument our players are not talented enough, cause contrary I think we have one of the most talented young Pool of players from Omid, National Team and IPL to choose from.

Every young player CQ gave a chance to play after the World Cup has proved his strategy of playing the old and tired bunch was stupid.

Example:

Pouraliganji, Rafie, Azmoun, Taremi, Ezatollahi, Amiri, Rezaian, Alishah, Torabi

[TM homeboy]

I don't think CQ should be replaced as the alternatives are not great and I think he has many positive attributes as well.


But I think he should grow some B**ls and have more faith in the Iranian talents offensively, while continuing to instill discipline and defensive strategies hes applied in the past.

Also one major point is to have a Creative play maker in the middle, so we don't look so lost offensively.