Time for a new formation?

[persiangodfather]

No its not time untill we loose a game.
In the middle of qualification we can't make big changescreen. Also remember we are the under dog in every match especially in tashkent

[Taz]

This isn't the 90s, two central strikers died out for a reason. If we had two world class ones, then maybe the argument would be there but we don't, we've got a world class prospect and an experienced [if limited] journeyman. We've also been playing a system we are now very familiar and experienced with and which has led to arguably the strongest TM in history.

Our current 4-2-3-1 is quite clearly the system that gets the best out of us. Its flexibility in offering us to have a 4-5-1 when we don't have possession and a 4-3-3 when we do is what makes it so good. Any system involving two central strikers would lose that, meaning we're either at risk of being outnumbered in midfield or leaving our fullbacks exposed.

Being outnumbered in midfield through playing only two CMs would mean we risk losing control of games and it's something which a lot of people seem to be taking for granted in this CQ era simply because they've got used to our success of recent times. We go over to China and dominate them in their own backyard for reasons such as winning the midfield battle.

And leaving our fullbacks exposed without their respective wingers tracking back to help them defensively is something which we can't afford at all in our current situation in which we don't have one defensively reliable fullback in the entire squad.

There are areas of CQ's work where I think us supporters can bring valuable opinions and critique across, like for example possibly CQ's touchline conduct, maybe even his team selection but when it comes to tactical thinking and football strategy, he has an elite mind, he's proven it time and time again and to even question the man is doing him a disservice. In CQ we trust, forever and ever and ever.

[OFFSIDE_1]

our issue is not the number of strikers up front. It's the lack of a legitimate playmaker behind the striker that we are suffering from. Ashkan is not a pure passer and Shojaei (your favorite player) has lost a few steps :-)

When you don't have a playmaker to penetrate the defense, what you will get is exactly what you're seeing from our team. Wingers pretending to be playmakers sending off one useless cross after another. Look at the UAE team and Abdulrahman and you can immediately tell how sorely we miss having a legitimate playmaker.

As for the current formation, you are mistaking if you think the 4-2-3-1 is a defensive formation. The 4-1-2-1-2 you are proposing puts alot of pressure on your full backs. You're forcing the LB and RB to cover lots of ground, and clearly we don't have such players, nor do we have any IPL teams playing that system, which means you have to teach our players this new formation without friendlies.

[Doctor DOOM]

I would go for a 4-3-3 :
- 4 defenders,
- 3 midfields in triangle : 1 defensive midfield staying in front + 2 offensive midfields (or one offensive and the other more defensive like Ando)
- 1 striker and 2 wingers.
Midfield will be dense so it makes it harder for the opponents. And it is more easy to build a good passing style of play

Well, CQ has tried 4-3-3 on occasions. And I think it performed comparatively better than 4-2-3-1. But somehow he gets too cautious and reverts to the latter, especially in official games.

As for the numbers game, again, 4-4-2 offers a very balanced formation. You still have 4 in midfield to retain control pf midfield and not be over-powered there.

And mind you, I am basically advocating this against ASIAN TEAMS. If CQ wants to be conservative against superior teams from other continents, then he is correct. But in asia? Against the likes of oman and china????

[Doctor DOOM]

This isn't the 90s, two central strikers died out for a reason. If we had two world class ones, then maybe the argument would be there but we don't, we've got a world class prospect and an experienced [if limited] journeyman. We've also been playing a system we are now very familiar and experienced with and which has led to arguably the strongest TM in history.
Our current 4-2-3-1 is quite clearly the system that gets the best out of us. Its flexibility in offering us to have a 4-5-1 when we don't have possession and a 4-3-3 when we do is what makes it so good. Any system involving two central strikers would lose that, meaning we're either at risk of being outnumbered in midfield or leaving our fullbacks exposed.
Being outnumbered in midfield through playing only two CMs would mean we risk losing control of games and it's something which a lot of people seem to be taking for granted in this CQ era simply because they've got used to our success of recent times. We go over to China and dominate them in their own backyard for reasons such as winning the midfield battle.
And leaving our fullbacks exposed without their respective wingers tracking back to help them defensively is something which we can't afford at all in our current situation in which we don't have one defensively reliable fullback in the entire squad.
There are areas of CQ's work where I think us supporters can bring valuable opinions and critique across, like for example possibly CQ's touchline conduct, maybe even his team selection but when it comes to tactical thinking and football strategy, he has an elite mind, he's proven it time and time again and to even question the man is doing him a disservice. In CQ we trust, forever and ever and ever.

A million issues:
1- whether a system is old or new or ... shd never be the criteria. If it works, then it works. As simple as that.
The present one hardly works if we demand something beyond keeping our goal shut. Lets not count lucky fluke goals as team tactics here.

2- you say the system is familiar to us. Putting aside the paper, judging from how the team moves and performs, i think the ''familiarity'' stops at paper and coach's board. Unless this system required ''hopeful lobs'' as its main mode of attacks.
Secondly, familiarity is one thing. Delivery of the tasks is another. And it's in delivery that we fall short.


3- strongest or toughest to defeat? The two may mean different things if we step beyond ''keeping our goals shut''.

4- I dont know. But I always thought ''the best out of us'' was a little more than hoofing balls up field from defense and pray some defender makes a mistake.
I always thought it'd mean an organized and systematic performance in 'transition followed by attack'', where players know where they shd be, what they shd do and where others are and the team moves in unision, not mere individual-based attacks that mainly rely on an individual's skills.
That is if we're talking about more than ''mere defending'' tactics.


5- flexibility? 4-1-2-1-2 is just as flexible, even if we keep its simplicity (a major plus) out of the discussion. It can turn into 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or just about any combo. Lets not forget it's not numbers, it's people. And those people can be told to take such and such positions in such and such situations.


6- fullbacks are NOT exposed as there are RMs and LMs to help. In fact a 4-3-3 can leave them more exposed, if the midfield is bunched in the center, or leave the middle exposed, if it's kept wide.
As I said, 4-4:2 gives you pretty much everything.

7- team selection. In fact this is one major factor where 4-2-3-1 fails miserably short. For a system to work (beyond the papeer or board), you got to have the personel that can deliver. Delivering 4-2-3-1 (at least when we need to attack ) has fallen short because we dont have the tight kind of players. We shdnt care what france or ... does. They may have the players. We dont.
But for a 4-4-2? Absolutely we do.


8- well, not a million points. But 7 ought to suffice for now.


And finally, if someone watches the team's movement and display and still doesnt think its lacking in many areas of offense (defending is different), then we cant be even discussing such matters. For one to address an issue, first one has to recognize its presence.

[Doctor DOOM]

@offside:

Regarding the pressure on fullbacks and ground covered.
By lots of ''ground covered'' as in for example, rezaeian coming up field, even overlapping to get near the flag to cross the ball? Andd then, in defense, he being required to track back and fill his position as soon as we lose the ball?
You mean that ''ground covered''?
Isnt he required to do exactly that in the present system too?

[YeCheesi Tala]

Considering our CB defenders are some of the best I really want CQ to try a 3-2-3-2.

------Haghighi------
--PAG--SJH--Mimo-
-----Ando--Ezza----
-------Shojaei------
ARJ------------Torabi
---SA--------Gucci---

[irani8perspolis]

our issue is not the number of strikers up front. It's the lack of a legitimate playmaker behind the striker that we are suffering from. Ashkan is not a pure passer and Shojaei (your favorite player) has lost a few steps :-)

When you don't have a playmaker to penetrate the defense, what you will get is exactly what you're seeing from our team. Wingers pretending to be playmakers sending off one useless cross after another. Look at the UAE team and Abdulrahman and you can immediately tell how sorely we miss having a legitimate playmaker.

As for the current formation, you are mistaking if you think the 4-2-3-1 is a defensive formation. The 4-1-2-1-2 you are proposing puts alot of pressure on your full backs. You're forcing the LB and RB to cover lots of ground, and clearly we don't have such players, nor do we have any IPL teams playing that system, which means you have to teach our players this new formation without friendlies.

The answer to this question is Rahim Mehdi Zohaivi, don't know why CQ can't see it. Best player in PGPL last season and still hasn't got a cap.

[perspolis#1]

A formation change could help us but we need a serious discussion on how to do that.

4-1-2-1-2.

Defense with Mohammadi/Rezaian probably. I would want Ando to stay at home with the defense as a shield because he has lost his legs. Ezzatollahi and Hajsafi in the midfield. Shojaeian/Shojaei at CAM. Azmoun/Gucci as strikers. In the second half we could switch to 4-2-2-2 and bring on Torabi/Jahanbakhsh for Shojaeian/Hajsafi.


4-1-3-2

This follows a similar format to be used against Syria/China at home. Ando or Ezzatollahi at home. Hajsafi/Dejagah at LW Shojaei/Shojaeian at CAM. Jahanbakhsh at RW. Azmoun + Gucci up top. This is a formation to get many goals and avoid a 0-0 tie.

4-2-2-2.

With this one I want to see Ebrahimi/Ezzatollahi together. Torabi/Dejagah on left. Jahanbakhsh right. Azmoun+Gucci up front. This is a lot of wide play but puts two strikers on and spreads out the other team a ton.

[ehsan singapore]

Considering our CB defenders are some of the best I really want CQ to try a 3-2-3-2.

------Haghighi------
--PAG--SJH--Mimo-
-----Ando--Ezza----
-------Shojaei------
ARJ------------Torabi
---SA--------Gucci---

that is a good line up i would change torabi with dejagah, but if a excellent line up, we had to play 1 for 2014 world cup ad there was no one to partner gucci now we have azmoun and gucci play them both up front ,can help us much more

[Doctor DOOM]

Considering our CB defenders are some of the best I really want CQ to try a 3-2-3-2.
------Haghighi------
--PAG--SJH--Mimo-
-----Ando--Ezza----
-------Shojaei------
ARJ------------Torabi
---SA--------Gucci---

This formations will get raped by koreans or any team that uses width of the pitch
Your wide players are so far up the field that they have to be Ussain Bolts to cover their flanks. Not to mention neither are good or even half decent in defending ... which means even if they do somehow track back from far up field, they would t mount much resistance anyway!

[Kiarash]

Time for a new formation?

Iran does not have world class defenders to play with a 3-5-2 formation. Three defenders usually means the likes of Chiellini, Pique and Boateng covering the entire defensive area. Our CB's are too slow for that.

I do thought of Jahanbakhsh being tried out as a RB, because I have seen scenes of him where he defended really well and cut the attack down the flank of the other opposition.

Makes me think that, maybe he can be used at RB if he can't produce the finishing assist or enough danger up front like against the China game. He is also a hard worker, a typical trait of left and right-backs: they can run a lot.

5-3-2 with two fullbacks (JB and Mohammadi in this case) could be something considered if you see CQ's defensive approach.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Babak agha]

-------------Beina-----------
Montazeri-SJH-PAG-MiMo
---Ezza--Ando----
-JB----Deja-----
---SA-------Gucci

[NFL]

formation means nothing when players have no familiarity with each other.
we are missing rhythm. we need friendlies to get the core of the starters to play together.
when 6 starters join the team 3 days before a match and on top of that we haven't played any friendlies for god knows how long, then we can not expect much team work. a pass here and a pass there. a moment here and a move there, that's all we are gonna get.
what else is new?

[Doctor DOOM]

Iran does not have world class defenders to play with a 3-5-2 formation. Three defenders usually means the likes of Chiellini, Pique and Boateng covering the entire defensive area. Our CB's are too slow for that.

I do thought of Jahanbakhsh being tried out as a RB, because I have seen scenes of him where he defended really well and cut the attack down the flank of the other opposition.

Makes me think that, maybe he can be used at RB if he can't produce the finishing assist or enough danger up front like against the China game. He is also a hard worker, a typical trait of left and right-backs: they can run a lot.

5-3-2 with two fullbacks (JB and Mohammadi in this case) could be something considered if you see CQ's defensive approach.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What you've seen JB do is what an auxiliary to the fullback (meaning a midfielder or winger) does to ASSIST in defending, as all modern players are taught to do, irrespective of their position, even attackers. This ''assistance'' is very different from what a proper fullback supposed to do. As a fullback, JB will not be able to perform, simply because his style is very different. He is basically a typical winger with all the correct characteristics. That's why i said he is the ONLY player in the top four players in 4231 who fits the role in the formation. And maybe an in form Amiri at LW. But that's it!

Luckily we do have enough RBs to avoid dragging other players to fill the post.