Ashkan Dejagah @ Nottingham Forest FC | 2018

[sirvan]

Sure, there are many garbage players playing in EPL.
But it's not as Son is a substitute for Huddersfield Town, He's a key member of one of the league's best 6 teams...one of the best attacks pf the league.
That'll be the second consecutive season he'd get into double digit in goals playing on the wing...in a team that revolves around getting the ball to Harry Kane, so he scores.
Son isn't just "playing" in EPL, He's excelling.

Aside from the Son vs Azmoun discussion, my argument was against some of the members with inferiority complex here (Hadi ao) who claimed Team Melli players are not good enough (talentwise) to play in the EPL (even stated they are nowhere near PL level), which is ofcourse bogus

[Afat11]

Why do we love comparing players that are difficult to compare? Son and Azmoun play different positions, and their situations are completely different. One has a great NT coach in CQ and a solid squad of young teammates, and the other doesn't. The other has made good club decisions to find himself in one of Europe's best clubs, the other didn't.

There are more differences separating these two players than similarities between them. Trying to compare is almost impossible. If they were in similar situations, we could compare, but alas we can't.

We should stop doing these pointless comparisons, particularly in Dejagah's thread

[KeonKish]

Nottingham signed a la Liga defender who last played for osasuna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hadi]

What is that for an argument? The players i mentioned not playing in the Premier League is not an indication that they are not good enough to play there. It seems you either believe the Premier League consists of Supermen with the technical ability of Messi/Maradona/Xavi/Pirlo etc or you have a severe inferiority complex. Either way your statement has no base in reality. ki sung Yueng and Son Meung play in the premier league and they are invisible when the play against us, and for sure are not better than Azmoun, Jahanbakhsh, Ezatolahi and co, not too mention that PL is filled with players with limited football skills, so my advice to you is deal with your personal inferiority complex which probably hit you during your childhood, as it is alien to our Iranian mentality and has zero base in reality mate.

just like many members here, you can't convey your point without personal insults.
you are part of the delusional Iranian fans who believe Iranian football is way under-rated and if not for the "forces of IR and the unfair treatment of Iran by European countries", Iranian footballers would be competing with the best in Europe.

and in order to prove your point, you give examples of two Korean players playing in PL (thus indirectly also showing how much your ass is burning because two Asian rivals players are shining in PL while there has never been an Iranian player (barring Bagheri), let alone star in the PL)
I hate to burst your bubble but premier league standard is much higher than even those Korean players. Sure, Sun is a star (no pun intended) but he didn't get there overnight. He was a star in Germany before he moved to PL, something that no Iranian player has achieved since Mahdavikia. Is Germany also blind to Iranian talent too? how about France? Spain? Portugal?. Jahanbakhsh and Azmoun, arguably our biggest stars have stalled. They couldn't get a deal in the PL or even in Spain / Germany. Ezzatolahi went to Spain but he couldn't make it at youth level. All the evidence is in front of you and if you repeat what you are saying anywhere other than an Iranian football forum, you will become the laughing stock. Don't think that Iran not having top players in Europe is a big conspiracy of IR or blindness of European teams and coaches. Its simply because they are not good enough. there is no such thing as "deserving" to play in PL or Germany or Spain. if you are good enough , you will be signed. otherwise, you arent good enough.

The second point you mentioned was the fact that Sun or others did not shine in a head to head national match with Iran. You do know that ability of a footballer is not measured based on a single international match versus Iran right? and also let me guet this straight. You want to prove that Iranian players deserve to play in PL and you use the following deduction:

Sun and Ki play in PL ====>The didn't play great vs Iran====>Iranian players deserve to be in PL
listen to yourself lol. by that logic, Uzbeks also deserve to play in PL. and btw,= Oman's Habsi was a PL GK, every single team who beat Oman also deserves to play in PL.

On top of that, Iran always enjoys an advantage on the international stage. simply because the level of preparedness is more equal on the international stage and the Iranian team has better cohesion and determination compared to its rival Asian teams. that doesn't necessarily mean our individual players are superior.

[Hadi]

Ashkan Dejagah is the best Iranian player since the last of our golden generation retired in circa 2006.

Dejagah is only Iranian by birth. He is a product of German's footballing academies. I think he was a decent player in his time in Fulham. Yet, he could not adapt to the physicality and often ran out of steam after 60 minutes. If Fulham didn't have such a bad year and if he was more fit, he could have become a cult hero right winger in the PL.

But other than Dejagah, we do not have a player who could walk into a PL team. and the problem is mainly fitness levels. top PL teams need world class players. and lower PL teams demand players who are extremely fit and aggressive. Non of which Iran can produce.

ps i ordered my Dejagah jersey too.

[Doctor DOOM]

Sure, there are many garbage players playing in EPL.
But it's not as Son is a substitute for Huddersfield Town, He's a key member of one of the league's best 6 teams...one of the best attacks pf the league.
That'll be the second consecutive season he'd get into double digit in goals playing on the wing...in a team that revolves around getting the ball to Harry Kane, so he scores.
Son isn't just "playing" in EPL, He's excelling.

No arguments there.
But I thought we're assessing if our players are worth playing in these leagues. I strongly believe our top 20-25 can. Many may not excel, as you say. and a few might do just as well. However it doesnt mean they dont deserve to play at that level.

Now, why dont we see more Iranians in these leagues is by NO means a reflection of their quality. It is more dependent on side issues and other factors such as exposure of Iranian football, closed environment of Iran, marketability of Iran, visa issues, political issues, ... etc etc etc

[Hadi]

^ Of course foreign players will always have a disadvantage when playing in PL. There are loads of mediocre English players playing in PL.
Due to work permit, homegrown limits, language and cultural barriers and many other reasons, we still have 30% homegrown English players playing in PL. Having said that, England has 70% foreign players, highest of any league in Europe. see below:

http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...11-uefa-report

so clearly, if a player is good enough, English teams will sign him. The fact that year on year no Iranian players gets recruited by English teams (or even German or Spanish team) says something about our players.

You see in order to end up in PL or Spain, you need to either be grown in one of the clubs (clearly Iranian players have a disadvantge there), or make a name for yourself and get scouted. For that to happen, you have to prove your worth in a decent league. Most of PL signings come from other European league (or lower tiers). We seldom see players move from Asia or Africa directly to PL. And there is a good reason for that. No matter how good we "think" a player is, he is unproven until he makes in in a European league. We have a pool of players playing in third tier European leagues now (JB, Azmoun, Gucci, Rezaie, Shojaie, Ansarifard, ghodos, etc). For sure, these guys are our stars and a head and shoulder better than the rest of the players we have. However they have not been able to make a mark big enough for top teams to look at them (yet). maybe world cup will change that. But what I am saying is that so far, non of our 8-10 legionnaires have been good enough to attract PL interest. and thats a fact.

lets not even talk about our domestic players.

[KeonKish]

Ashkan Dejagah is the best Iranian player since the last of our golden generation retired in circa 2006.
Dejagah is only Iranian by birth. He is a product of German's footballing academies. I think he was a decent player in his time in Fulham. Yet, he could not adapt to the physicality and often ran out of steam after 60 minutes. If Fulham didn't have such a bad year and if he was more fit, he could have become a cult hero right winger in the PL.
But other than Dejagah, we do not have a player who could walk into a PL team. and the problem is mainly fitness levels. top PL teams need world class players. and lower PL teams demand players who are extremely fit and aggressive. Non of which Iran can produce.
ps i ordered my Dejagah jersey too.

Dejagah doesn't struggle with physicality, he's quite a stocky and physical player himself.
I think its his playing style and generally speaking he's never really been a 90 minute player. Im not counting his performance for Iran because he obviously has way more passion and gives his maximum for TM.
But yes, it is painfully obvious whenever he is on the pitch that Iranian players lack some very basic footballing training. Dejagah has the german youth system class in his game, and its one of the reasons he always stands out.
PL values fit players over ones who may be more talented, which is why there certain players can be great in a league like Serie A, but not wanted by PL teams.
Although, I really do think someone like Jahanbaksh or even Mohammadi can make it in the big leagues.
IMO mohammadi is the best suited for any league
-He is blazingly fast and fit, no problems there
- Fantastic defensive work ethic
- Adds a lot of options for attack
- Is already used to high physicality from RPL
He's the classic modern left back/fullback

[Doctor DOOM]

^ Of course foreign players will always have a disadvantage when playing in PL. There are loads of mediocre English players playing in PL.
Due to work permit, homegrown limits, language and cultural barriers and many other reasons, we still have 30% homegrown English players playing in PL. Having said that, England has 70% foreign players, highest of any league in Europe. see below:
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...11-uefa-report
so clearly, if a player is good enough, English teams will sign him. The fact that year on year no Iranian players gets recruited by English teams (or even German or Spanish team) says something about our players.
You see in order to end up in PL or Spain, you need to either be grown in one of the clubs (clearly Iranian players have a disadvantge there), or make a name for yourself and get scouted. For that to happen, you have to prove your worth in a decent league. Most of PL signings come from other European league (or lower tiers). We seldom see players move from Asia or Africa directly to PL. And there is a good reason for that. No matter how good we "think" a player is, he is unproven until he makes in in a European league. We have a pool of players playing in third tier European leagues now (JB, Azmoun, Gucci, Rezaie, Shojaie, Ansarifard, ghodos, etc). For sure, these guys are our stars and a head and shoulder better than the rest of the players we have. However they have not been able to make a mark big enough for top teams to look at them (yet). maybe world cup will change that. But what I am saying is that so far, non of our 8-10 legionnaires have been good enough to attract PL interest. and thats a fact.
lets not even talk about our domestic players.

you just answered yourself.
if an english or european player is at level 6. And an Iranian player also is at 6, obviously the european/english player is picked. NOT because of difference in quality. It's just easier and more accommodating to get europeans so the clubs can spend big time on foreign players (criteria being either quality or markets or .... etc)


Surely you cant say the dozens of chinese and many korean/japanese (aside from the top 4-5; Son, Kagawa, ... . Mind you even these TOP players are not very far from OUR top performers. Perhaps more professional attitude) players are of higher quality to our TM players. You know perfectly well they are not.
Therefore other factors come in.
I mean come on ... it is those crappy, bungling chinese players who can hardly string 3 passes together. And yet dozens play in europe!!!

bottomline, we dont lack the QUALITY. We just dont present enough opportunities or exposure to major leagues to lure them. Two very different things

[Doctor DOOM]

guys like beyranvand, amiri, torabi, alipour, tabrizi, cheshmi, .... can very easily play in europe. And not just greece or russia, but france, germany, Italy.
They definitely have enough quality to play in those leagues. I watch spanish league a lot and by God I can see far lower quality among those players (at least in bottom half 10 clubs) that the above players, who all would be an improvement to them.

By the same token, all the chaps we have in europe (greece, holland, belgium, ...) CAN easily play in the top leagues.
we suffer from elsewhere, not quality

The only thing I can point at our players is perhaps the issue of professionalism that many of us fall short of. But the new crop of players like JB, Rezaei, Ansarifard, ... ( perhaps except the hostage-boy ) are learning fast and adopting this vital characteristic.

[GoIran]

you just answered yourself.
if an english or european player is at level 6. And an Iranian player also is at 6, obviously the european/english player is picked. NOT because of difference in quality. It's just easier and more accommodating to get europeans so the clubs can spend big time on foreign players (criteria being either quality or markets or .... etc)
Surely you cant say the dozens of chinese and many korean/japanese (aside from the top 4-5; Son, Kagawa, ... . Mind you even these TOP players are not very far from OUR top performers. Perhaps more professional attitude) players are of higher quality to our TM players. You know perfectly well they are not.
Therefore other factors come in.
I mean come on ... it is those crappy, bungling chinese players who can hardly string 3 passes together. And yet dozens play in europe!!!
bottomline, we dont lack the QUALITY. We just dont present enough opportunities or exposure to major leagues to lure them. Two very different things

There are no Chinese players in the top leagues right now. The successful Japanese and Korean players in the top leagues are definitely better than our players. Son has scored 67 goals in Premier League and Bundesliga combined at the age of 25. Our all time best scorer is Hashemian with 38 goals. Kagawa surpasses his record too with 47 goals despite being a midfielder.

First of all, please keep in mind that there were many top TM players who couldn't cut it in the top European leagues. Bagheri, Azizi, Teymourian, Kaebi, Shojaei....Even Daei was statistically nothing special in Bundesliga. Zandi had one good season but the rest of his Bundesliga career was disappointing. Gucci was toothless in the Championship.

I think we have a slightly better squad than Korea overall. Korea has only 2 players (Son and Ki) who get regular playing time in the top leagues. Japan is a different story, though.

[Kian Persepolis]

There are no Chinese players in the top leagues right now. The successful Japanese and Korean players in the top leagues are definitely better than our players. Son has scored 67 goals in Premier League and Bundesliga combined at the age of 25. Our all time best scorer is Hashemian with 38 goals. Kagawa surpasses his record too with 47 goals despite being a midfielder.
First of all, please keep in mind that there were many top TM players who couldn't cut it in the top European leagues. Bagheri, Azizi, Teymourian, Kaebi, Shojaei....Even Daei was statistically nothing special in Bundesliga. Zandi had one good season but the rest of his Bundesliga career was disappointing. Gucci was toothless in the Championship.
I think we have a slightly better squad than Korea overall. Korea has only 2 players (Son and Ki) who get regular playing time in the top leagues. Japan is a different story, though.

There is actually a Chinese guy who got signed by West Brom Albion and then loaned to Werder Bremen. He scored a single goal in the whole eredivisie season last year.
Crystal Palace FC also has an Afghan player that's currently out on loan

[Hadi]

you just answered yourself.
if an english or european player is at level 6. And an Iranian player also is at 6, obviously the european/english player is picked. NOT because of difference in quality. It's just easier and more accommodating to get europeans so the clubs can spend big time on foreign players (criteria being either quality or markets or .... etc)
Surely you cant say the dozens of chinese and many korean/japanese (aside from the top 4-5; Son, Kagawa, ... . Mind you even these TOP players are not very far from OUR top performers. Perhaps more professional attitude) players are of higher quality to our TM players. You know perfectly well they are not.
Therefore other factors come in.
I mean come on ... it is those crappy, bungling chinese players who can hardly string 3 passes together. And yet dozens play in europe!!!
bottomline, we dont lack the QUALITY. We just dont present enough opportunities or exposure to major leagues to lure them. Two very different things

I always knew that you had ‘alternative’ views on Football. It I didn’t know that you are also capable of speaking out of thin air (or thin Fart )
Which Chinese player are you talking about??? Which Chinese player regularly plays in the PL?
Besides we were talking about PL specifically , not all European leagues. Do you watch the premier league regularly in the pay 5-10 years?

Of course we have players who are capable of playing in Europe or lower divisions of Europe. But we do not regularly produce talent that can perform in TOP leagues and TOP teams especially in PL. Korea and Japan have time and time demonstrated that they can produce quality players who can succeed at the highest level of English Football.


L

[Hadi]

guys like beyranvand, amiri, torabi, alipour, tabrizi, cheshmi, .... can very easily play in europe. And not just greece or russia, but france, germany, Italy.
They definitely have enough quality to play in those leagues. I watch spanish league a lot and by God I can see far lower quality among those players (at least in bottom half 10 clubs) that the above players, who all would be an improvement to them.
By the same token, all the chaps we have in europe (greece, holland, belgium, ...) CAN easily play in the top leagues.
we suffer from elsewhere, not quality
The only thing I can point at our players is perhaps the issue of professionalism that many of us fall short of. But the new crop of players like JB, Rezaei, Ansarifard, ... ( perhaps except the hostage-boy ) are learning fast and adopting this vital characteristic.

Ok so you claim we have plenty of quality players. So answer me. What’s stopping them from playing in TOP European teams or PL?
You even say that some of our players are learning professionalism. Very well. So should we expect them to light the premier league on fire soon? They can easily be scouted, have no visa issues, and are professional.
So we should expect them in the premier league next! Let’s see

[ehsan singapore]

it seem ashkan is not even on the bench for today game