Iran vs Spain [Post-match discssion]

[tooleh khers]

Not sure you've got the meaning for the term "bekesh ziresh" football, champ 🤣🤣

I am not sure you understand what is happening wen a team has a low number of passes. Yes, Doctor it means they are bekesh ziresh out of there. Since we are discussing this and you are reading, ali asghari football is 10 levels above bekesh ziresh. ali asghari is actually sending in crosses from everywhere so there is still a hope of the ball falling on someone's head where as bekesh ziresh is just defend, don't risk passing and get rid of it before it is put in your net. Yes, we paid CQ for this for 8 years and we want more. Vaghean mardomeh ajibi hastim.

[tooleh khers]

Ball distribution???? We had 216 passes against Spain. What do you call a game with 216 passes, bekesh ziresh or building from the back???

Our Doctor seems to not be connecting the dots.

[somebuffguy]

CQ owes us nothing. We can thank him for 8 years but we alo need to evolve and progress. If Skocic is gone one day I would like to see S. American influence on our game.

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Respect

[somebuffguy]

Our Doctor seems to not be connecting the dots.

It's not the number of passes that indicate bekesh ziresh football- that is to be expected with low possession- the pass completion percentage is the tell-tale.

[Ali Doust]

Ball distribution???? We had 216 passes against Spain. What do you call a game with 216 passes, bekesh ziresh or building from the back???

Just counting the pass total is taking matters out of context.

We were looking for route 1 when we had the ball. We weren't looking to build play. But "bekesh ziresh" means just booting the ball up field which was not our game plan.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Just counting the pass total is taking matters out of context.

We were looking for route 1 when we had the ball. We weren't looking to build play. But "bekesh ziresh" means just booting the ball up field which was not our game plan.

You have a lot more patience than I do on these cyclical conversations...

[O-ZoNe]

30 November 2022. Just in time for the holidays.

Inshalla after second round of WC where TM fans and Iranians in general can celebrate a historic WC run!

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[somebuffguy]

Inshalla after second round of WC were TM fans and Iranians in general can celebrate a historic WC run!
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Amen!

[Farzadfarhangni]

Just counting the pass total is taking matters out of context.

We were looking for route 1 when we had the ball. We weren't looking to build play. But "bekesh ziresh" means just booting the ball up field which was not our game plan.

Ostad, if you are looking for route 1 almost all the time, whether someone is free up there or not, then it becomes bekesh ziresh, no? Small number of passes, low pass completion percentages and low possession percentages all indicate looking for route 1 too often. It indicates inability or unwillingness to hang on to the ball. In our case, I think we had the ability to play better but coach's strategy dictated for us to get rid of the ball quickly.

After they scored, we had no choice but to try and play football. And in the process, we realized that we are not that much weaker than 2018 Spain and perhaps we could have given them a game in the first place. What hurts me is that we did not believe in ourselves enough to play that way from the beginning. Sure, we might have lost 2-0 or 3-0, but also increased our change of getting a result against Spain.

Thank you for engaging in a civil discussion about football unlike some others.

[Ali Doust]

Ostad, if you are looking for route 1 almost all the time, whether someone is free up there or not, then it becomes bekesh ziresh, no? Small number of passes, low pass completion percentages and low possession percentages all indicate looking for route 1 too often. It indicates inability or unwillingness to hang on to the ball. In our case, I think we had the ability to play better but coach's strategy dictated for us to get rid of the ball quickly.

After they scored, we had no choice but to try and play football. And in the process, we realized that we are not that much weaker than 2018 Spain and perhaps we could have given them a game in the first place. What hurts me is that we did not believe in ourselves enough to play that way from the beginning. Sure, we might have lost 2-0 or 3-0, but also increased our change of getting a result against Spain.

Thank you for engaging in a civil discussion about football unlike some others.

The difference is that bekesh ziresh, you are essentially sending the ball up the field with no direct target. Essentially looking for the open field up high and sending in the forwards to chase the ball. We were not doing so. We were looking to pass the ball into the feet of our players but looking upfield all the time and no back passes which could lead to bad turnovers just like we had experienced prior to the world cup against Turkey. Like I said, you have to look at the whole picture not nit pick specific aspects and try to draw conclusions.

[Farzadfarhangni]

The difference is that bekesh ziresh, you are essentially sending the ball up the field with no direct target. Essentially looking for the open field up high and sending in the forwards to chase the ball. We were not doing so. We were looking to pass the ball into the feet of our players but looking upfield all the time and no back passes which could lead to bad turnovers just like we had experienced prior to the world cup against Turkey. Like I said, you have to look at the whole picture not nit pick specific aspects and try to draw conclusions.

Few notes to clarify where I am coming from.

I was at the game and have watched the game at least 20 times since. I am not basing my comments on stats, I am just saying that stats support my view.

My discussion is only regarding the first 60 minutes of the game.

It is important to note that even Sardar was told to defend deep into our own half. So bekesh ziresh would not have worked the moment we got possession since Sardar was 10 yards away from our defense. To help with this problem, like you said, we would try to find feet and make one or max two passes while Sardar, Taremi and either Amiri or Ansarifard sprinted upfield from deep in our own half and then came the long pass to the open channels either to the left, right or on top. These long passes are what I call bekesh ziresh and were mostly unsuccessful which led to loss of possession, lack of completed passes.

We rarely had control of the ball in Spanish half in the first 60 minutes and I don't recall us completing 6 or 7 passes in a row in the first 60 minutes.

Again, I feel this was because of our ultra conservative approach which like you said, did not want to have side and back passes by our defense. Defend with 10 men deep in our own half, which invites their players into our half and makes building from the back impossible and leads to one pass and bekesh ziresh.

Basically, the mentality that was ingrained in our team was that we are playing against such superior players that they'll eat us alive if we play against them, so lets defend with 10 men deep in our own half.

A team that is afraid to make back passes is beyond sad. I don't think Brazil can beat Lebanon if they are forbidden from making back passes.

Of course, once we opened up after we conceded, we were able to play so much better. No more defending with 10 men in our own box; Hosseini, PAG, Ezatollahi, Amiri and Ebrahimi passing the ball around the midfield waiting for opportunities to open up to break down Spanish defense and we realized that we could have gone toe to toe with these guys like Moroccans did from the first minute.

[Ali Doust]

Few notes to clarify where I am coming from.

I was at the game and have watched the game at least 20 times since. I am not basing my comments on stats, I am just saying that stats support my view.

My discussion is only regarding the first 60 minutes of the game.

It is important to note that even Sardar was told to defend deep into our own half. So bekesh ziresh would not have worked the moment we got possession since Sardar was 10 yards away from our defense. To help with this problem, like you said, we would try to find feet and make one or max two passes while Sardar, Taremi and either Amiri or Ansarifard sprinted upfield from deep in our own half and then came the long pass to the open channels either to the left, right or on top. These long passes are what I call bekesh ziresh and were mostly unsuccessful which led to loss of possession, lack of completed passes.

We rarely had control of the ball in Spanish half in the first 60 minutes and I don't recall us completing 6 or 7 passes in a row in the first 60 minutes.

Again, I feel this was because of our ultra conservative approach which like you said, did not want to have side and back passes by our defense. Defend with 10 men deep in our own half, which invites their players into our half and makes building from the back impossible and leads to one pass and bekesh ziresh.

Basically, the mentality that was ingrained in our team was that we are playing against such superior players that they'll eat us alive if we play against them, so lets defend with 10 men deep in our own half.

A team that is afraid to make back passes is beyond sad. I don't think Brazil can beat Lebanon if they are forbidden from making back passes.

Of course, once we opened up after we conceded, we were able to play so much better. No more defending with 10 men in our own box; Hosseini, PAG, Ezatollahi, Amiri and Ebrahimi passing the ball around the midfield waiting for opportunities to open up to break down Spanish defense and we realized that we could have gone toe to toe with these guys like Moroccans did from the first minute.

We didn't know we could go toe to toe because we had zero experience against high quality opponents like Spain
On paper the Spanish team was valued at 1Billion while our team was valued at 50million. Naturally you will come out playing conservatively. As the game went on, we got more comfortable. If we came out blazing out the gates, game could've been over in the first 15min. It's easy to judge a scenario once it has passed. At the end of the day, CQ game plan had us a kick away from topping that group. A result we would have all accepted ahead of the tournament.

[Farzadfarhangni]

We didn't know we could go toe to toe because we had zero experience against high quality opponents like Spain
On paper the Spanish team was valued at 1Billion while our team was valued at 50million. Naturally you will come out playing conservatively. As the game went on, we got more comfortable. If we came out blazing out the gates, game could've been over in the first 15min. It's easy to judge a scenario once it has passed. At the end of the day, CQ game plan had us a kick away from topping that group. A result we would have all accepted ahead of the tournament.

Thank you. I agree that the consensus was a comfortable win for Spain. But it is up to our coaches and staff to set up a mentality that we have strengths too, and on a good day, we can give them a game. When our strategy is to defend with 10 men, we are telling our team that we are playing giants and not giving ourselves any chance or credit.

Basically, there is a whole range of options between all out attack and defending with 10 men deep in our own half. I am not advocating for an all out attack, I am just saying that the first 60 minutes was too conservative. We should believe in ourselves a little more and give ourselves a chance.

Mahdavikia was at the game as a guest of Gianni Infantino. After the game, in an interview with Iranian TV, they asked him what Infantino thought of the game and he said something like: "Gianni was surprised at the way we played in the first half given our abilities." I wish I had the exact quote. Of course, Infantino wants an exciting game with lots of goals, so he is always going to be against a team parking the bus, but I think we used a double decker bus in the first 60 minutes of that game.