Do we really need to be so defensive?

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Lol defensive football in 2014...0-0 Nigeria and 1-3 loss to eliminated Bosnia with a chance to progress. Man we can skew things anyway!
1978 for example...we drew a powerful Scotland. 98 we almost had Yugo and deserved at least a 3-1 v USA...playing more offensive minded of course.
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Bosnia we played offensive, 1:3 loss.
Yugo, I watched that game game at least 25 times, as I have it on VHS! We play defensive and on counter attack!


Again
1, if we had the same youth infrastructure and same level of fitness as most European Leagues, then sure we would be able to play a more offensive football, without getting out of gas like Bosnia game (last game 2014), Germany game (last game 1998), Peru game (last game 1978).
2, again, we DO NOT PLAY 90mins defensively. We do get on attack mode after 50-60 mins, has been like that for 7 years. Why do you think we got those spaces vs Spain? They were fooled into our half of the field.


Again, we dont have to agree...!

[KC McElroy]

WC 2006, attacking football 1:3 to Mexioco loss, 0:2 to Portugal.
WC 1978, attacking football, 0:3 to Netherlands, 1:4 (freaking 1:4) to Peru.
No Thanks!

2014 we came very close to beat Argentina, so did we vs Spain! I take this stratgey over previous attempts!

I am afraid, this is an area we disagree...

It's not a fair comparison as there are different players, coaches, opponents, etc. But regardless I don't think we are disagreeing about the initial defensive approach. My objection was our refusal to even try to counter and instead just kicking the ball away aimlessly whenever Spain lost the ball. We weren't like that against Argentina.

[O-ZoNe]

Bosnia we playd offensive, 1:3 loss
Yugo, I watched that game game at least 25 times, as ai have on VHS! We play defensive and on counter attack!

Again
1, if we had the same youth infrastructure and same level of fitness as most European Leagues. then sure we would be able to play a more offensive football, without getting out of gas like Bosnia game (last game 2014), Germany game (last game 1998), Peru game (last game 1978)
2, again, we DO NOT PLAY 90mins defesnively. We do get on attack mode after 50-60 mins, has been like that for 7 years. Why do you think we got those spaces vs Spain? they were fooled into our half!

Again, we dont have to agree...!

Yes...!

Yugo we countered not just dump the ball up field! Build up of play. I have it on VHS as well.

Bosnia we lost as a result of not getting more favourable results in first 2 matches due to our ultra defensive approach particularly against Nigeria.

And YES we have to agree! Lol kidding on last part please don't ban me!

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[Adesor Vafaseya]

And YES we have to agree! Lol kidding on last part please don't ban me!

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How would I dare to ban our former head of moderation team?
No Sir! Never!

[O-ZoNe]

How would I dare to ban our former head of moderation team?
No Sir! Never!

Haha eftekhar dadi dash sibil! No please go ban KC...I mean does he not get we don't play defense for 90 min! Haha!

In all fairness I hope whatever happens and however we decide to play that we are able to be victorious! Would be huge.

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[Ghermez Agha]

I'm gonna get grilled...but in 5 WC matches from 2014 till now we have scores 2x...one was an own goal. Zero chance you can progress with a stat like that even if you do not get scored on have perfect defense!

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To be fair CQ cannot come off the bench and finish opportunities we have had.

In those 5 games there were more than enough opportunities to score that were not taken (Azmoun missing a 1v1 vs Morocco, Masoud hitting the bar against Bosnia, Gucci with tons of missed chances va Argentina, Taremi missing a sitter vs Spain, etc.) - the chances were there but they were not taken. You cannot put that on CQ, the style/tactics

[O-ZoNe]

To be fair CQ cannot come off the bench and finish opportunities we have had.

In those 5 games there were more than enough opportunities to score that were not taken (Azmoun missing a 1v1 vs Morocco, Masoud hitting the bar against Bosnia, Gucci with tons of missed chances va Argentina, Taremi missing a sitter vs Spain, etc.) - the chances were there but they were not taken. You cannot put that on CQ, the style/tactics

Chances are chances. Just like ref decisions hurt us too. But you need chances to score. Spakn, Argentina, Germany miss more than they score. Germany missed 10-15 solid chances against Sweden but scored 2. If Iran only gets half dozen or less chances can we expect to score 2 against Spain, Germany, Portugal or even Sweden? That's a hard game to play day in day out.

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[Sam khan]

Bosnia we played offensive, 1:3 loss.
Yugo, I watched that game game at least 25 times, as I have it on VHS! We play defensive and on counter attack!


Again
1, if we had the same youth infrastructure and same level of fitness as most European Leagues, then sure we would be able to play a more offensive football, without getting out of gas like Bosnia game (last game 2014), Germany game (last game 1998), Peru game (last game 1978).
2, again, we DO NOT PLAY 90mins defensively. We do get on attack mode after 50-60 mins, has been like that for 7 years. Why do you think we got those spaces vs Spain? They were fooled into our half of the field.


Again, we dont have to agree...!

Oh yes that Bosnia game. I remember the whole family, including ex pro footballers who know what they're on about, screaming at the TV during that horrible game when we played so horribly defensively. We just couldn't work out why we were doing that. There's no way we were offensive in that match.

I take the point about soaking up pressure and starting to attack on the hour. But to me it looked more like starting to attack when we were 1-0 down to be honest. Had it been 0-0 I'm sure we'd still have 11 men in the box. Or maybe you're right because we did attack second half against Morocco I suppose. But that begs the question if we are only decent when we attack why bother defending like dogs for an hour? USA almost scored 4 against us in our famous win in the opening few mins. Morocco couldve had 2 or 3 in our defensive period. Spain we managed to hold back but they eventually scored.

We only REDUCE the threat of letting a goal in when we start attacking.

Against Morocco we look more likely to score AND less liekly to concede after we started attacking. Odddly against Spain the same thing. And USA. Attack is fantastic form of defence.

And as has been said there's a difference between proper defence minded counter attacking football and the sort of defence where we put 11 men in the box and just kick it up the field inviting them to have another go time and time again. But I do take your point that perhaps we defend to begin with then plan to attack for the last third.

As for European infrastructure yes this is undoubtedly true and will improve with time as our local leagues strengthen etc. BUT my point starting this thread was to get away from this defeatist mentality of "oh look we dont have the infrastructure of European teams therefore we will only ever be able to defend". I don't believe that. That's a negative attitude with which Iranian footy can never progress.

You're right though we don't have to agree, although I agree with some of your points. All good discussion

[Mr.Click]

I don't think we defend all the time. I would have been ok if our first 60 minutes against Spain was the same as it was against Argentina. But what we did against Spain was simply kick the ball as far up field anytime they lost the ball. We hardly even tried to counter and the aimless boots into an empty half of the field looked embarrassing.

Spain defenders did exactly that a few times we counter attacked.. to pass forward the ball you'd need someone upfront, we had none, all players were defending and being squeezed in our half by team Barca/Real select

[KC McElroy]

Spain defenders did exactly that a few times we counter attacked.. to pass forward the ball you'd need someone upfront, we had none, all players were defending and being squeezed in our half by team Barca/Real select

I don't remember them doing that but even if they did I remember many other times were they passed the ball around and worked their way up to our goal. We simply booted it up to no one. I specifically remember once when we did this and our player wasn't even under any pressure.

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Oh yes that Bosnia game. I remember the whole family, including ex pro footballers who know what they're on about, screaming at the TV during that horrible game when we played so horribly defensively. We just couldn't work out why we were doing that. There's no way we were offensive in that match.
I take the point about soaking up pressure and starting to attack on the hour. But to me it looked more like starting to attack when we were 1-0 down to be honest. Had it been 0-0 I'm sure we'd still have 11 men in the box. Or maybe you're right because we did attack second half against Morocco I suppose. But that begs the question if we are only decent when we attack why bother defending like dogs for an hour? USA almost scored 4 against us in our famous win in the opening few mins. Morocco couldve had 2 or 3 in our defensive period. Spain we managed to hold back but they eventually scored.
We only REDUCE the threat of letting a goal in when we start attacking.
Against Morocco we look more likely to score AND less liekly to concede after we started attacking. Odddly against Spain the same thing. And USA. Attack is fantastic form of defence.
And as has been said there's a difference between proper defence minded counter attacking football and the sort of defence where we put 11 men in the box and just kick it up the field inviting them to have another go time and time again. But I do take your point that perhaps we defend to begin with then plan to attack for the last third.
As for European infrastructure yes this is undoubtedly true and will improve with time as our local leagues strengthen etc. BUT my point starting this thread was to get away from this defeatist mentality of "oh look we dont have the infrastructure of European teams therefore we will only ever be able to defend". I don't believe that. That's a negative attitude with which Iranian footy can never progress.
You're right though we don't have to agree, although I agree with some of your points. All good discussion

And I am sorry, I disagree with everything you said above and find your whole analysis so wrong, idk where to start! except the last point! Disagree in its true meaning and form!

I disagree with saying, we put 11 men in the box.
I disagree with the notion, we played defensive vs Bosnia!
I find it shameful with the reference “like dogs”. Truly inappropriate way of comparison. By definition dogs, are those who bark without substance...
I disgaree at thinking we defend 90 mins!

So, best is to leave it here! Disgaree!

[Mr.Click]

I don't remember them doing that but even if they did I remember many other times were they passed the ball around and worked their way up to our goal. We simply booted it up to no one. I specifically remember once when we did this and our player wasn't even under any pressure.

I'm sure you play soccer and we all know how it is when under pressure.. split second to make a decision either to clear the ball or to look for a lonely striker most likely covered by more than one man,.. and taking a tad too long deciding that could cost the team dearly..
I'm sure Spain cleared the ball like that in at least 2 occasions as I remember it

[KC McElroy]

I'm sure you play soccer and we all know how it is when under pressure.. split second to make a decision either to clear the ball or to look for a lonely striker most likely covered by more than one man,.. and taking a tad too long deciding that could cost the team dearly..
I'm sure Spain cleared the ball like that in at least 2 occasions as I remember it

As I said they may have and perhaps I don't remember. We seemed to do it the entire half. It was specifically the one that was done with sufficient time to pass and little pressure that got under my skin as it was launched into Spain's half with none of our players in sight.

[zereshk-ali]

2 factors that come into it for me

First is we defend too deep in the 1st half of games. It’s fine sitting back, being hard to break down and breaking on teams - I think it’s our best strategy. But at times (subconsciously?) they drop too far and then it’s almost impossible to break through a high press at this level when you have one striker 15 yards in front of 5 mf’s all in a straight line.

Secondly is confidence and I think the original poster is absolutely right in saying we don’t help the mentality of our side going forward by continually going into games with all the underdog chat. They’ve proved they can play against the worlds best midfield - it’s time we’re more confident in our own abilities.

A superb defensive performance and gutsy World Cup display. We just need to be braver on the ball and believe we can take games to teams by counterattacking earlier in games.

[Sam khan]

AFTER THE GREAT RESULT YESTERDAY...

I hate to say I told you so but....

Finally, we actually bring 11 men outside the box and start playing some decent football with proper decent counter ATTACKING from the start and guess what? We actually do well! We actually get a deserved draw and had more decent chances on goal than they did. We totally stunned them. That's what I was talking about. Nice one Carlos!