Iran's offense was a disaster [By the numbers]

[krol]

What does being a Perspolisi have to do with Iran's awful offensive performance at the world cup?

Nothing of course It's just pure coincidence that the people most obsessed with bashing this team before, during and after the WC happen to be red fans No relation whatsoever.

Every unbiased non-Iranian pundit/fans acknowledged that Iran's attack left more to be desired.

None of them described our team in any aspect as "disastrous" as you and a few other red fans try to make it out to be. Some, like BBC's Chris Sutton, were full of praise and described both Portugal and Spain as getting lucky against us. Try again.

Nobody is expecting them to play flawless Spanish style passing, just expecting them not to be this bad offensively.

The only people who think we're "this bad offensively" are people who have no clue about the style we play and think the only way to score goals is the way they do in FIFA 18. I already explained why your interpretation of our offense and the stats are misguided. I'm not going to keep repeating it. Go back and read my last post.

We weren't the only defensive minded team this World cup, but somehow other defensive teams managed to not be dead last in these key offensive categories.

Those other defensive teams weren't going up against TWO continental champions and the best national team of the last decade that is basically a Real Madrid/Barcelona hybrid! Our "weakest" opponent in this group was the champion of Africa that was also the ONLY team in the world to finish the qualifiers without conceding a single goal. That's how good their defense was. So please. Enough of this selective concern trolling. Soon the glorious "Asian Champions League" starts again and red fans can go back to things that really matter, like beating the 7th team of UAE in the 95th minute and celebrating like they just won the World Cup. #Winning

[The]

Nothing of course It's just pure coincidence that the people most obsessed with bashing this team before, during and after the WC happen to be red fans No relation whatsoever.

None of them described our team in any aspect as "disastrous" as you and a few other red fans try to make it out to be. Some, like BBC's Chris Sutton, were full of praise and described both Portugal and Spain as getting lucky against us. Try again.

The only people who think we're "this bad offensively" are people who have no clue about the style we play and think the only way to score goals is the way they do in FIFA 18. I already explained why your interpretation of our offense and the stats are misguided. I'm not going to keep repeating it. Go back and read my last post.

Those other defensive teams weren't going up against TWO continental champions and the best national team of the last decade that is basically a Real Madrid/Barcelona hybrid! Our "weakest" opponent in this group was the champion of Africa that was also the ONLY team in the world to finish the qualifiers without conceding a single goal. That's how good their defense was. So please. Enough of this selective concern trolling. Soon the glorious "Asian Champions League" starts again and red fans can go back to things that really matter, like beating the 7th team of UAE in the 95th minute and celebrating like they just won the World Cup. #Winning

PP fans who constantly shit on Brangoh Hate CQ, because ???

I think the fact that there are a lot of PP fans makes it seem like most people who criticize CQ are PP fans... either than or you're just suffering from confirmation bias. Like I didn't even mention or blame CQ solely for our defensive display but you just assumed I was. Also there's a difference between bashing a team and pointing out it's obvious flaws. Here's a link that might help you: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nuance

Not a single pundit or fan praised Iran's offensive play. They were all (rightfully so) praising the great defensive display. You do realize that offense and defense are different things, right?

Please stop being condescending. Just because people don't see things your way, it doesn't mean they think real football is FIFA. I'm pointing out that even among defensive teams, our offensive display was awful. Playing defensive isn't a uniquely Iranian or CQ thing, other teams do it and managed not to be as terrible as Iran was offensively/with possession.

This isn't some 1984 style dictatorship were we must all praise everything related to CQ. He gets praise for what he does right, and should be criticized when certain things are lacking.

[Parham10]

I would rather us not play the way we do, but it HAS been working so I won't complain too much.

[Martin-Reza]

I don't fully disagree, but no need to exaggerate. There were a couple of teams who always had less possession. We just had the strongest group and consequently played it. That also explains the poor passing quota. If you don't bring many players forward but keep them in the back in order to not be caught off guard, like we mostly did, you simply don't have many good passing options if your opposition presses and then you certainly have a poorer passing stat. Same goes for shots.

On the other hand we showed very good pressing and one touch counter football when needed. And I agree we have to work on showing that more frequently and not only when falling behind. But for that we also need more players in Europe, in better clubs with regular action.

But you must not forget, Queiroz's aim was to maximize our chances to win, even if it's unattactive or has poor offensive stats. And I certainly approve that. Hopefully he will have an even better team at disposal in 4 years, which allows him to implement other tactics, to even increase the chances - and that not in a group of death.

[krol]

blah blah blah

Half of your post was desperate deflections unworthy of a response, and the rest was copy/pastes of the same overblown nonsense you've been saying so far. You have a habit of saying something, having it refuted by someone, then responding by simply repeating the refuted statement! You did it here again in this thread more than once. I'm not going to waste time refuting a point I already addressed in detail in my last post! If you don't want to be "talked down to", try making sense.

[Babak agha]

Although I don't want to say that we played a bad WC or that we shoulda or coulda done it differently as this was probably the best we could've gotten out of this group..

But how can one say the bad passing, shooting and other offensive stats were due to our defensive style of play and those numbers are logical, but be proud that we have the best defense due to most tackles and clearances and ignore the fact that that is actually also a logical consequence of defending with 10 men in our own 16 for 50% of the time?

[The]

Half of your post was desperate deflections unworthy of a response, and the rest was copy/pastes of the same overblown nonsense you've been saying so far. You have a habit of saying something, having it refuted by someone, then responding by simply repeating the refuted statement! You did it here again in this thread more than once. I'm not going to waste time refuting a point I already addressed in detail in my last post! If you don't want to be "talked down to", try making sense.

You didn't refute anything. You literally failed to address a single point I made, changed the topic from offense to defense, and was just rude and condescending. which is why I have to repeat things and try to explain them to you.

[krol]

But how can one say the bad passing, shooting and other offensive stats were due to our defensive style of play and those numbers are logical, but be proud that we have the best defense due to most tackles and clearances and ignore the fact that that is actually also a logical consequence of defending with 10 men in our own 16 for 50% of the time?

Those defensive stats are impressive because you can't rack up most tackles, clearances and saves by just playing defensive. Simply having men in the back is not enough. You must also have great organization and tactical discipline as well as individual effort.

"Most defensive" does not equal "best defense". Otherwise teams like Nepal and Sri Lanka would be the best defensive teams in the world. Those teams play bunker ball against all bigger teams but always get lit up. Tactics and organization is key. And that's where CQ gets the credit.

[Afat11]

I think some are ignoring that we had probably the HARDEST 3 opponents from each pot (except Pot 1). Portugal is still a very difficult team, even for other top European teams, Morocco was clearly a very good squad, and Spain is Spain. If people think these would be our stats if we played Russia, Uruguay and Saudi Arabia, or Poland, Columbia, and Japan, you are crazy.

As the third seed, we had the hardest route to qualifying. Maybe Sweden, but Germany was garbage, Mexico is inconsistent, and Korea is levels below Morocco.

If we had Panama, Peru, and Poland as our group, and had these stats, I'd be right there crying with you, but we had the best player, team overall, and potential dark horses to go far in our group, and we finished third on 4 points. I think this bahooneh is just people bored waiting for Asian Cup. Put Iceland in our group, and see if they got 4 points or more possession. Put us in their group, and we probably qualify with Croatia.

[krol]

You didn't refute anything. You literally failed to address a single point I made, changed the topic from offense to defense, and was just rude and condescending. which is why I have to repeat things and try to explain them to you.

Nonsense. Complete nonsense. And it's this childish stubbornness that makes people talk down to you. It's simply "loos bazi" as we say in Persian.

I addressed all the silly stuff about our "disastrous offense", "other pundits' view of our team", and "other teams' performance compared to our offense". I went into detail in each case, explaining why your interpretations are uninformed, naive or biased. If you really can't understand those explanations, it says a lot more about your intellect than it does about my points.

[pandora]

Germany were not a bad team actually. You guys would most likely lose to them. In fact Korea probably would lose to them if they played again. You have a better chance of tying them by packing 10 men in front of the goal posts than Korea. Better than any AFC team for that matter. But you guys definitely have a less chance of beating them than Korea.
You tend to think of this as a moral issue. "Iran are good (morally) , played well so you deserve a victory here and there." The reality is that football is a game of chance and in terms of soccer skills you were outplayed in all 3 of your matches. If done again it is very unlikely you will beat Morocco. Likewise for Spain and Portugal. There is no football god that will gift you victories because Iran is valiantly against Western Imperialists. It is just a game where grown men kick a ball silly for 90+ minutes.

[tooleh khers]

I think some are ignoring that we had probably the HARDEST 3 opponents from each pot (except Pot 1). Portugal is still a very difficult team, even for other top European teams, Morocco was clearly a very good squad, and Spain is Spain. If people think these would be our stats if we played Russia, Uruguay and Saudi Arabia, or Poland, Columbia, and Japan, you are crazy.

As the third seed, we had the hardest route to qualifying. Maybe Sweden, but Germany was garbage, Mexico is inconsistent, and Korea is levels below Morocco.

If we had Panama, Peru, and Poland as our group, and had these stats, I'd be right there crying with you, but we had the best player, team overall, and potential dark horses to go far in our group, and we finished third on 4 points. I think this bahooneh is just people bored waiting for Asian Cup. Put Iceland in our group, and see if they got 4 points or more possession. Put us in their group, and we probably qualify with Croatia.

This remains to be seen though. We will see just how far Spain and Portugal go in the tournament.

[DR Strangemoosh]

believe a defeatist attitude is now prevalent in our football where not getting demolished by Spain, Portugal and Argentina is considered a great performance.

We need perspective here

- We are a pariah state, our last friendlies like Greece, and even bloody Kosovo, were cancelled
- At a time when the gap between Europe's Big 4 leagues and the rest is increasing exponentially, we have ZERO players in top tier European football
- Companies/intermediaries don't get any money from buying our players, we have no good agent contacts so the best our players can do is Russian/Greek teams
- Nike didn't even want to provide Sardar's Merc Vapors. We have unique battles that no other team does.


To get the following results and being inches away from topping a group containing the european champions, the penultimate world cup champions (both amongst the favourites) and morocco (considered a dark horse)

- Beating a team considered a dark horse for the tournament by most of the better pundits (morocco) who didn't concede a single goal in the hardest african qualifying group against Gabon (Aubameyang), Ivory Coast (no need to list their players) and Mali.
- Drawing a Portugal side, shutting out a Ronaldo who had scored a hat-trick against Spain and taking the game to them in the second half
- Playing a great defensive game against Spain, taking the game to them after conceding and being a tough referee decision away from a 1-1


All the while with fans who made friends and became the talk of the games with our atmosphere. I don't call this defeatist. Then again, I don't support Branko like you do either.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Germany were not a bad team actually. You guys would most likely lose to them. In fact Korea probably would lose to them if they played again. You have a better chance of tying them by packing 10 men in front of the goal posts than Korea. Better than any AFC team for that matter. But you guys definitely have a less chance of beating them than Korea.
You tend to think of this as a moral issue. "Iran are good (morally) , played well so you deserve a victory here and there." The reality is that football is a game of chance and in terms of soccer skills you were outplayed in all 3 of your matches. If done again it is very unlikely you will beat Morocco. Likewise for Spain and Portugal. There is no football god that will gift you victories because Iran is valiantly against Western Imperialists. It is just a game where grown men kick a ball silly for 90+ minutes.

You haven't answered the responses to your post in the Korea group thread and are again generalizing. I hope you liked the posts which were congratulatory to Korea's national team.

In any case, I'll post my message again and once again, travel, open your mind. Attending all these world cups over the last few decades I have met people from all over the world. I feel the atmosphere of the world cup helps me appreciate the diversity of the world. You on the other hand seem to post everything as if iranian fans are all one entity "You tend to think of this as a moral issue."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure it's just that, I think the guy seems to be trolling, perhaps even a little racist, and wants to criticise all iranian fans. He seems to think of "all iranian fans" as one entity in his posts.

If he/she is from another asian country, its a bit weird as most of us here are pretty happy for our fellow asian teams, it reflects well on all of us for asian teams to do well. One thing for sure on all these threads is that we have never criticised fans of other asian teams as a group, yet he/she is doing it to us in our own forum!

If you are from Korea/Japan/Australia, you already have enough to laugh at us about, we are a pariah state. Politically we are isolated. We can't even get Nike to give Sardar his Mercurial Vapors, teams don't want to play us (Greece and Kosovo dropped us as our last friendlies), and companies/intermediaries don't get any money out of buying our players. We have no good agent contacts for iranian players so the most we can do with are Russian and Greek teams for our best players. Laughing at how politically damaged we are, when we love our football so much, should be enough for you.

Pandora, are you that bitter and angry that you can't credit a country with a football team which values 20-25 million (less than Son alone, or Kagawa/Honda alone!) playing as a phalanx defensively and then dominating second halves against the european champions, penultimate world cup champions and beating a team which had conceded no goals in qualifying and was considered a dark horse?

More than anything, as a fellow asian as well as us being proud of your team, you should be proud of us for getting 4 points in this group and being a few inches away from topping a group. Talking about iranian players on the floor (what, so portugal didn't spend as much or more time on the ground than TM, I must have been in the wrong stadium ?) just sounds really salty. I'm really damn proud of Team Melli for how they played despite all the obstacles thrown at them.

You must have little joy in life.

[DR Strangemoosh]

Germany were not a bad team actually. You guys would most likely lose to them. In fact Korea probably would lose to them if they played again. You have a better chance of tying them by packing 10 men in front of the goal posts than Korea. Better than any AFC team for that matter. But you guys definitely have a less chance of beating them than Korea.
You tend to think of this as a moral issue. "Iran are good (morally) , played well so you deserve a victory here and there." The reality is that football is a game of chance and in terms of soccer skills you were outplayed in all 3 of your matches. If done again it is very unlikely you will beat Morocco. Likewise for Spain and Portugal. There is no football god that will gift you victories because Iran is valiantly against Western Imperialists. It is just a game where grown men kick a ball silly for 90+ minutes.

How much salt do you have.

I hugged a Korean dude who was draped with the Taegukgi in the Sochi fan fest yesterday. he was so congratulatory of TM and said we did asia proud and i reciprocated about Korea's great win against the WC champions

Stop being so damn salty in your life, for pity's sake.