QUEIROZ vs BRANCO Discussion!

[Futbolista]

^^ I am an engineer your words mean nothing. Only numbers matter.

Engineer, businessman or fisherman, at the end of the day Team Melli played their best tournament since the mid 90s at this past world cup. As a scientist I can tell you that numbers seldom tell the whole story.

[scuderia]

Guys statistics are always good to look at but let's not forget Branko in my opinion had one of the best if not the best team in history of TM. Barely made it out of the AC group stage and couldn't win 1 game in the WC!

[persiangodfather]

Please stop it I am sure everyone is starting to hate me by now and I might be on the edge of getting banned for re-posting the same thing over and over. Back to back thing is over played IMO. He was the only coach given the opportunity, other coaches cannot be faulted for this. Morocco win was due to an own goal. We finishe
d 6th with CQ losing to ISIS. He has not delivered. He says so himself. He needs to pay back our love and hospitality and investment with a trophy after all these years.

FAKE NEWS

[DR Strangemoosh]

Key point in all these instances is that football isn't just about quantifiable things. There are so many things which are unquantifiable but massively important. If numbers are the only important thing for you without context then maybe go for another sport or hobby - the engineering mindset you are proud of is interesting but you can't put numbers on investing in the future and building something like this.

CQ bringing forward a player like Majid Hosseini just prior to WC (and upsetting many of us here including me) isn't just an investment for immediate results, it is an investment in the future of that individual player, an atmosphere of meritocracy amongst iranian youths and TM in general. Why can't you understand that?

Tooleh Khers probably thinks Jalal Talebi was a better coach for Iran than Tomislav Ivic. Anyway, given that Tooleh Khers is constantly re-posting the same thing and doesn't understand or respond to our arguments against it, I'd like to see his arguments against these points:



Contrast with the Branko effect for TM.

- SPINELESSNESS: Sticking with one goalkeeper (Mirzapour) who was error-prone, and not even giving a chance to test other alternatives, and there were a few (contrast with CQ). Not altering his tactics and game plan, and keeping with the same formations/line-ups for every damn game. He just didn't want to experiment and try different players, he didn't like any chance. We had a series of very feeble performances in the 2005-early 2006 period but NOTHING was changed after them, and he had a lot more new talent at his disposal than his predecessors (remember poor Pourheidari who had a midfield of Fekri, Navazi, Halali to pick from)

- OUTSIDE INFLUENCE: Branko let himself be influenced too much by player agents such as Reza Fazeli who was in the TM camp for the World Cup, and we all know that it affected the team spirit. He also let Daei dictate matters far too much in terms of team selection.

- TEAM SPIRIT: Our team spirit was the worst for WC06 when players were even refusing to pass to each other, let alone speaking with each other (contrast with CQ and the tight-knit unit he has built)

- TACTICAL NONSENSE: After finally bringing Bayern Munich's Hashemian back into the fold, he pushed him out to the wing (absolute no man's land) to accommodate a stagnant Ali Daei, who was playing 90 minutes for every game, not even subbed out for young strikers to get a chance to get some game time.

- TROLLING: Bringing Khatibi back to TM, starting him and Enayati. Khatibi was a constant source of frustration, the worst finisher we have ever had internationally, how he had so many caps no one can explain (well, apart from Branko and Khatibi's agent at the time Fazeli probably).

- POOR TEAM SELECTION: When we had more talented players, I never understood why Branko picked Badavi, Alavi, Kameli Mofrad, Khatibi, Sattar Zare. He had a favoured group of players who he stuck with, who were worse than a number of their peers in IPL.

- OGHDEH - Falling out with his prized player (Mobali) when the latter refused to move to Dynamo Zagreb in 2005. At the time he was the only two-footed playmaker apart from Karimi and he was player of the year in IPL at the age of 21. He was just dropped after Branko's lajbaazi.

- STIFLING DEVELOPMENT - We had, at the time, arguably our brightest crop of aged 18-22 youngsters who all looked very talented including the player who was the 22yo player of the year in Iran. They weren't given enough playing time internationally to develop and ended up dwindling, as the coach just kept playing the same people for 90 minutes regardless of how they performed (contrast massively with CQ)

[DR Strangemoosh]

Guys statistics are always good to look at but let's not forget Branko in my opinion had one of the best if not the best team in history of TM. Barely made it out of the AC group stage and couldn't win 1 game in the WC!

Exactly, statistics without context is ridiculous, especially in a sport such as football.

I am an engineer your words mean nothing. Only numbers matter!

Maybe football isn't the sport or hobby for you. I prefer stories and performances over pure numbers in the absence of any context, pretty sure a lot of other people do too.

Engineer, businessman or fisherman, at the end of the day Team Melli played their best tournament since the mid 90s at this past world cup. As a scientist I can tell you that numbers seldom tell the whole story.!

This.

[persiangodfather]

Key point in all these instances is that football isn't just about quantifiable things. There are so many things which are unquantifiable but massively important. If numbers are the only important thing for you without context then maybe go for another sport or hobby - the engineering mindset you are proud of is interesting but you can't put numbers on investing in the future and building something like this.

CQ bringing forward a player like Majid Hosseini just prior to WC (and upsetting many of us here including me) isn't just an investment for immediate results, it is an investment in the future of that individual player, an atmosphere of meritocracy amongst iranian youths and TM in general. Why can't you understand that?

Tooleh Khers probably thinks Jalal Talebi was a better coach for Iran than Tomislav Ivic. Anyway, given that Tooleh Khers is constantly re-posting the same thing and doesn't understand or respond to our arguments against it, I'd like to see his arguments against these points:



Contrast with the Branko effect for TM.

- SPINELESSNESS: Sticking with one goalkeeper (Mirzapour) who was error-prone, and not even giving a chance to test other alternatives, and there were a few (contrast with CQ). Not altering his tactics and game plan, and keeping with the same formations/line-ups for every damn game. He just didn't want to experiment and try different players, he didn't like any chance. We had a series of very feeble performances in the 2005-early 2006 period but NOTHING was changed after them, and he had a lot more new talent at his disposal than his predecessors (remember poor Pourheidari who had a midfield of Fekri, Navazi, Halali to pick from)

- OUTSIDE INFLUENCE: Branko let himself be influenced too much by player agents such as Reza Fazeli who was in the TM camp for the World Cup, and we all know that it affected the team spirit. He also let Daei dictate matters far too much in terms of team selection.

- TEAM SPIRIT: Our team spirit was the worst for WC06 when players were even refusing to pass to each other, let alone speaking with each other (contrast with CQ and the tight-knit unit he has built)

- TACTICAL NONSENSE: After finally bringing Bayern Munich's Hashemian back into the fold, he pushed him out to the wing (absolute no man's land) to accommodate a stagnant Ali Daei, who was playing 90 minutes for every game, not even subbed out for young strikers to get a chance to get some game time.

- TROLLING: Bringing Khatibi back to TM, starting him and Enayati. Khatibi was a constant source of frustration, the worst finisher we have ever had internationally, how he had so many caps no one can explain (well, apart from Branko and Khatibi's agent at the time Fazeli probably).

- POOR TEAM SELECTION: When we had more talented players, I never understood why Branko picked Badavi, Alavi, Kameli Mofrad, Khatibi, Sattar Zare. He had a favoured group of players who he stuck with, who were worse than a number of their peers in IPL.

- OGHDEH - Falling out with his prized player (Mobali) when the latter refused to move to Dynamo Zagreb in 2005. At the time he was the only two-footed playmaker apart from Karimi and he was player of the year in IPL at the age of 21. He was just dropped after Branko's lajbaazi.

- STIFLING DEVELOPMENT - We had, at the time, arguably our brightest crop of aged 18-22 youngsters who all looked very talented including the player who was the 22yo player of the year in Iran. They weren't given enough playing time internationally to develop and ended up dwindling, as the coach just kept playing the same people for 90 minutes regardless of how they performed (contrast massively with CQ)

your right and the 1 thing I LOVE ABOUT CQ is man his selections are amazing. He had so much balls to tell Rahmati to get lost, He knew Ahmadi was good, he knew Haghighi was good. and After a great performance by haghighi in WC CQ had no problem getting beiranvand in/ Told Aghilli to get lost, Turned Amir Hossein Sadeghi into Nesta

Not bringing Khalatbaari to wc 2014, Look who emerged instead, ARJ Hajsafi

Dropped Syed Jalal Hosseini for Majid Hosseini
and so much more

[scuderia]

Key point in all these instances is that football isn't just about quantifiable things. There are so many things which are unquantifiable but massively important. If numbers are the only important thing for you without context then maybe go for another sport or hobby - the engineering mindset you are proud of is interesting but you can't put numbers on investing in the future and building something like this.
CQ bringing forward a player like Majid Hosseini just prior to WC (and upsetting many of us here including me) isn't just an investment for immediate results, it is an investment in the future of that individual player, an atmosphere of meritocracy amongst iranian youths and TM in general. Why can't you understand that?
Tooleh Khers probably thinks Jalal Talebi was a better coach for Iran than Tomislav Ivic. Anyway, given that Tooleh Khers is constantly re-posting the same thing and doesn't understand or respond to our arguments against it, I'd like to see his arguments against these points:
Contrast with the Branko effect for TM.
- SPINELESSNESS: Sticking with one goalkeeper (Mirzapour) who was error-prone, and not even giving a chance to test other alternatives, and there were a few (contrast with CQ). Not altering his tactics and game plan, and keeping with the same formations/line-ups for every damn game. He just didn't want to experiment and try different players, he didn't like any chance. We had a series of very feeble performances in the 2005-early 2006 period but NOTHING was changed after them, and he had a lot more new talent at his disposal than his predecessors (remember poor Pourheidari who had a midfield of Fekri, Navazi, Halali to pick from)
- OUTSIDE INFLUENCE: Branko let himself be influenced too much by player agents such as Reza Fazeli who was in the TM camp for the World Cup, and we all know that it affected the team spirit. He also let Daei dictate matters far too much in terms of team selection.
- TEAM SPIRIT: Our team spirit was the worst for WC06 when players were even refusing to pass to each other, let alone speaking with each other (contrast with CQ and the tight-knit unit he has built)
- TACTICAL NONSENSE: After finally bringing Bayern Munich's Hashemian back into the fold, he pushed him out to the wing (absolute no man's land) to accommodate a stagnant Ali Daei, who was playing 90 minutes for every game, not even subbed out for young strikers to get a chance to get some game time.
- TROLLING: Bringing Khatibi back to TM, starting him and Enayati. Khatibi was a constant source of frustration, the worst finisher we have ever had internationally, how he had so many caps no one can explain (well, apart from Branko and Khatibi's agent at the time Fazeli probably).
- POOR TEAM SELECTION: When we had more talented players, I never understood why Branko picked Badavi, Alavi, Kameli Mofrad, Khatibi, Sattar Zare. He had a favoured group of players who he stuck with, who were worse than a number of their peers in IPL.
- OGHDEH - Falling out with his prized player (Mobali) when the latter refused to move to Dynamo Zagreb in 2005. At the time he was the only two-footed playmaker apart from Karimi and he was player of the year in IPL at the age of 21. He was just dropped after Branko's lajbaazi.
- STIFLING DEVELOPMENT - We had, at the time, arguably our brightest crop of aged 18-22 youngsters who all looked very talented including the player who was the 22yo player of the year in Iran. They weren't given enough playing time internationally to develop and ended up dwindling, as the coach just kept playing the same people for 90 minutes regardless of how they performed (contrast massively with CQ)

I've heard that they refused to pass to each other a few times. Is this true? Did we see it?

[DR Strangemoosh]

I saw it in the stadium but don't know the exact context apart from what people have said.

I guess you can't put a pure number to quantify animosity in the dressing room to satisfy people like Tooleh Khers, can someone suggest an equation to define how drawn-out harmony in a dressing room decaying over time can impact long-term building of a football team's infrastructure and how this may impact on future results/teams/coaches?

[DR Strangemoosh]

your right and the 1 thing I LOVE ABOUT CQ is man his selections are amazing. He had so much balls to tell Rahmati to get lost, He knew Ahmadi was good, he knew Haghighi was good. and After a great performance by haghighi in WC CQ had no problem getting beiranvand in/ Told Aghilli to get lost, Turned Amir Hossein Sadeghi into Nesta

Not bringing Khalatbaari to wc 2014, Look who emerged instead, ARJ Hajsafi

Dropped Syed Jalal Hosseini for Majid Hosseini
and so much more

Agha in the interests of balance, I have to say that in general his selections are very good in terms of the players he has helped develop by giving them a chance when others wouldn't, but as fans we should be free to criticise what we don't disagree with.

I think dropping Seyed Jalal for Majid was a risky move that paid off amazingly - imagine Branko doing that with Yahya Golmohammadi/Sohrab Bakhtiarizadeh and Rahman Rezaei?

Dropping Khalatbari I still am not sure I agree with because I thought he would be good as an X-factor to come on late and split the defence with one of his through balls, having said that I completely appreciate CQ's logic that it would have altered the shape of the team he was building which was so water-tight for the first two games. BTW Hajsafi has been around for years before 2014...

I guess the one thing which bothers me is Shojaei (to a lesser extent Ansarifard and even Hajsafi) but we do know that he has an important role in the dressing room which is not immediately obvious to us as fans. I just hope that this group of lieutenants he has built (amongst players who he trusts and work hard for him on and off the pitch) pays dividends here, because I certainly thought Milad Mohammadi would have been a more threatening presence in attack and defence in the WC than Hajsafi for example.


One of the key points is that even if we disagree with CQ on a lot of things, the LONG-TERM positives in terms of talent-nurturing, building a good atmosphere etc... is something special and very different to the likes of Branko who gave his inheritors a fragmented and fractured squad and infrastructure.

[persiangodfather]

Cq has repeatably said we have so much Talent here.. There is a Messi & Ronaldo inside Iran, Just need the proper up bringing from 10 yrs old

[Pouya]

^^ I am an engineer your words mean nothing. Only numbers matter.

Also an engineer here. Engineers that are just concerned with numbers only usually end up being engineering designers for good cause they cannot incorporate the human factors, compromise, communication, empowerment of people, common sense and other "non-statistical / numerical" values into their work. The ones that can end up evolving to Project Managers, Team Leaders, VPs, etc..

[sarbaz]

When are you guys gona realize that CQ never likes to take physically small and weak players
like Khalaatbari ???

Look at TM now,it is the biggest and tallest team in Asia as well as in the history of Iranian football.
Our smallest guy is 1.77 meters tall.

CQ wants toughness and stamina.

[Roxanaz80]

your right and the 1 thing I LOVE ABOUT CQ is man his selections are amazing. He had so much balls to tell Rahmati to get lost, He knew Ahmadi was good, he knew Haghighi was good. and After a great performance by haghighi in WC CQ had no problem getting beiranvand in/ Told Aghilli to get lost, Turned Amir Hossein Sadeghi into Nesta

Not bringing Khalatbaari to wc 2014, Look who emerged instead, ARJ Hajsafi

Dropped Syed Jalal Hosseini for Majid Hosseini
and so much more

Why did Sadeghi and haghighi have to go?any particular reason?

[Saam]

Why did Sadeghi and haghighi have to go?any particular reason?

Sadeghi was old and Haghighi played through the Asian Cup but Beiro emerged and took his place after.

[AIrani]

Most facts are stated.

I prefer CQ to Branko. Branko was too gentleman for IFF.

My hope is fan to hire or pay for NT's salary especially now Iran under illegal sanctions.

Iranians are capable people. We have improved the world by our knowledge, wealth and time working our head off.