Ali Karimi at Bayern Munich

[perspolis#1]

By which standard was Ali Karimi a mediocre player? He is along with Karim Bagheri, Khodadad Azizi, Mehdi Mahdavikia and Sardar Azmoun the most talented player in Iranian and subsequently, Asian football history!

He wasn't mediocre, he was the best dribbler and playmaker Iran has had since the late 90s/early 2000s. While Shojaei knew how to dribble he never really settled into the playmaker role.

We've effectively lacked a CAM for 10 years now.

Karimi sometimes missed chances in crucial moments like the Dublin game vs Ireland. Some people have a bitter feeling left over from those times.

In a time where most of my Team Melli's tactics were based on individual brilliance Karimi definitely was a star

[Nokhodi]

so Karimi was a bad finisher at the beginning of his career, which is a fact.

Karimi's Second half of career (he played from 98 to 12 for TM) is claimed to be mediocre by some here.

So how is it possible that he's the 4th top scorer of all time for TM although he was a midfielder (who didn't take all the penalties like Daei and Nekounam) and not a striker/forward.

Also by applying the same rules by some posters here (discounting club performances, friendlies and matches with weaker sides) then Messi is also one of the worst players in the world as he sucks when playing for Argentina. Remember his game against Iran, doing nothing at all beside a lucky goal which got them the win. He must be a hyped players as these standards are applied to Karimi for calling him medicore.

And let's forget the fact that he rules UAE, kept midfield stars such as Hargreaves (who became a fixed starter as soon as he went to Man-U) and co on bench at his time at Bayern and came back to Iran and ruled the league again as a more deep lying playmaker. There were 10-15 minutes highlights after each of his games for Estil Azin, Perspolis and Teraktor, being posted here.

But yes a player who was praisedall the time by people who didn't like him (Daei and Ballack for example) was a medicore player.

\

Who said he's mediocre?

In my case, I said he disappointed! Which to me mean's he didn't get anywhere near his potential.

[Iran_19]

I like Karimi and I think he just like Daei gave visibility to our football, to anyone you mention I am Iranian and into the football the first names they mention is Daei and Karimi, few days a go Podolski posted a picture in his Insta with Karimi and call him a legend, that says alot

We all agree sadly he was lazy and lacked motivation, regarding his finishing, yes I agree he wasn't the best one, I mean just look at Ireland match in Dublin or even in Tehran, both Sardar and Daei would have scored the chances he did missed and the reason why we didn't qualify maybe..


https://www.instagram.com/p/B_cszeup...=1r014ga0w85ra


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[Babak agha]

That is not really a fact though? Where do you get that from?

By watching his games and his many many many many misses.......he would create a lot of opportunities for himself and yet miss them. Later he started to score with both feet, headers, from various angles and relative distance (as long as it was in the box

[ShiroKhorshid]

LOL@ Estil Azin! All our former European based players were old and out of form when they stated to play for Estil Azin. That is why the team was lousy and never reached anywhere. So it's not a hard task for Karimi to be better than them. Karimi himself was relatively out of form and not the usual Karimi when he played there.

I am talkin about 2009/10 not the 2010/11 season. He was clearly the best player in the league in his 1st season with Estil Azin. How can scorin 14 goals and havin 6, 7 assist be a bad season? I followed Karimi's whole career and 09/10 was definately one of his top 5 seasons (out of 16 or 17).

[Babak agha]

\

Who said he's mediocre?

In my case, I said he disappointed! Which to me mean's he didn't get anywhere near his potential.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you that he didn't live up to his potential. He really could have been a world star (but then again if my aunt had a .... she would be my uncle).

Karimi had good technique, which is not dribbling as most Iranian players can dribble thanks to gol kookhik, but have horrible technique (fundamentals such as controlling the ball, running with the ball, passing, stopping the ball etc.)

He had good tactical awareness, as he could play in various positions well and adapt to different systems and types of teams. Just look at his time at Bayern where he would only play one touch football and walk into the spaces created. And also later when he was older and was a deep lying playmaker.

He had a good vision. But that's kind of an obvious one as he was our a playmaker.

Dribbling: world class.

He could hold on the ball very well and even defend well. I can't recall many occasions where other players could get past him when he actually wanted to defend.

Motivation and Perseverance: typical Iranian......Wanting to be rich and famous without putting in any effort it requires

Attitude: very middle eastern.......offended easily for no reason, taking things personally, not thinking about long term impact but reacting based on emotions at that moment, being aggressive due to mental resilience, feeling entitled and letting a bit of power/fame going to his head thinking he is higher than Rhoda peyghambar, childish behavior all day long


That being said, we always say he didn't live up to his potential. On the dutch TV there is a very popular football talkshow and one of the fixed speakers is an ex football player who is alway regarded as a person with a very high potential who could have been on the same level of Gullit and his other teammates, or maybe even higher, if only he was more motivated and didn't party that often.

Once he got pissed of by having to hear the same story of he could have been if.......and he said something interesting. He said being motivated and having perseverance is just another skill set like being tall or being fast or being strong. Some have it or can work on it and some don't. I had many things but didn't have that. If we all had that skill set we all would be playing for Barca and Real. But that's not the case because everything misses something and motivation was what I was missing. So I did live up to my potential.

So maybe Karimi also lived up to his full potential (although even I can't believe that) it's just that we see tangible/visible skills of his that are head and shoulders above others but don't realize that he missed some invisible/non-tangible skill which were needed to make him a world class player.

[Babak agha]

I like Karimi and I think he just like Daei gave visibility to our football, to anyone you mention I am Iranian and into the football the first names they mention is Daei and Karimi, few days a go Podolski posted a picture in his Insta with Karimi and call him a legend, that says alot

We all agree sadly he was lazy and lacked motivation, regarding his finishing, yes I agree he wasn't the best one, I mean just look at Ireland match in Dublin or even in Tehran, both Sardar and Daei would have scored the chances he did missed and the reason why we didn't qualify maybe..


https://www.instagram.com/p/B_cszeup...=1r014ga0w85ra


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So you're comparing the finishing qualities of our best two ever forwards/clinical finishers with a midfielder? can you name many world class midfielders who were better finishers than their strikers or Karimi for that matter?

Karimi was a better finisher (later in his career) than Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, David Silva and Busquets. So although he gave everyone multiple heart attacks in the Ireland games (and many more games), let's try to be a bit objective.

[Nokhodi]

Karim Bagheri was a great finisher. Better than most forwards.

[Babak agha]

So was Lampard, but he wasn't a better finisher than Drogba, nor was Bagheri better than Daei (who karimi was being compared to)

[Iran_19]

So you're comparing the finishing qualities of our best two ever forwards/clinical finishers with a midfielder? can you name many world class midfielders who were better finishers than their strikers or Karimi for that matter?

Karimi was a better finisher (later in his career) than Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, David Silva and Busquets. So although he gave everyone multiple heart attacks in the Ireland games (and many more games), let's try to be a bit objective.

Karimi played in much much offensive position than many of our typical central midfielders including Bagheri in TM. He was in many games as right or left offensive winger or just behind striker. In game against Ireland he was playing much higher than Nikbakht(who played only a half in Dublin).
So in many games( at least until bagheri was around) he was the 2nd striker behind Daei.

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[Sly]

Karimi was a better finisher (later in his career) than Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, David Silva and Busquets.

So was Lampard, but he wasn't a better finisher than Drogba, nor was Bagheri better than Daei (who karimi was being compared to)

I don't understand your point about Karimi. First you compare Bagheri with one person who happens to be the best goal scorer on the planet and then you compare Karimi with so many different international midfielders. Are you trying to say Karimi was a better finisher than Bagheri? Because in that case I don't think your comparisons make sense. Can you elaborate a bit on your point please?

[Babak agha]

^ I don't think you've been reading all the posts carefully?

There were complaints about Karimi being a bad finisher, and he was being compared with Daei and Azmoun who wouldn't have been scoring the chances that Karimi had missed.

My posts are about the fact that that's an unfair comparison. Karimi was an attacking midfielder not a forward and shouldn't be compared to the best two forwards/finishers of our history.

Karimi was never a second striker, like Azizi was. Just because he was very attacking minded doesn't make him a forward who we should expect to be a good finisher. Nekounam played as a forward against Real Madrid for Ossasuna, Chealse, Man-U and Barca regularly have sent their center backs to play as a forward for the last 15-30 minutes. Both Barca and Spained fielded Fabregass regularly as their center forward. Just because they played there doesn't make them forwards nor finishers.

Karimi was a midfielder and should be compared to other midfielders.

Despite being a poor finisher in his early years, he improved massively later on and became our 4th top scorer of all times. Making him a very good finisher.

I gave examples of world class midfielders in teams where midfielders score a lot and yet Karimi is a better finisher than them. Making his finishing skills world class for a midfielder. Still doesn't mean that he should be compared to forwards.

The example of Bagheri was given with the claim that he was a better finisher than Karimi (I don't agree, I think Karimi was a more complete finisher compared to him) and that he was better than most forward (which Karimi was as well).

My reply was that Bagheri was a very high scoring midfielder, yet Daei was a better finisher. And Karimi was being compared to Daei, which is wrong thing to do and it's not a valid argument to be used to call Karimi a weak finisher.

[Sly]

^ I don't think you've been reading all the posts carefully?

There were complaints about Karimi being a bad finisher, and he was being compared with Daei and Azmoun who wouldn't have been scoring the chances that Karimi had missed.

My posts are about the fact that that's an unfair comparison. Karimi was an attacking midfielder not a forward and shouldn't be compared to the best two forwards/finishers of our history.

Karimi was never a second striker, like Azizi was. Just because he was very attacking minded doesn't make him a forward who we should expect to be a good finisher. Nekounam played as a forward against Real Madrid for Ossasuna, Chealse, Man-U and Barca regularly have sent their center backs to play as a forward for the last 15-30 minutes. Both Barca and Spained fielded Fabregass regularly as their center forward. Just because they played there doesn't make them forwards nor finishers.

Karimi was a midfielder and should be compared to other midfielders.

Despite being a poor finisher in his early years, he improved massively later on and became our 4th top scorer of all times. Making him a very good finisher.

I gave examples of world class midfielders in teams where midfielders score a lot and yet Karimi is a better finisher than them. Making his finishing skills world class for a midfielder. Still doesn't mean that he should be compared to forwards.

The example of Bagheri was given with the claim that he was a better finisher than Karimi (I don't agree, I think Karimi was a more complete finisher compared to him) and that he was better than most forward (which Karimi was as well).

My reply was that Bagheri was a very high scoring midfielder, yet Daei was a better finisher. And Karimi was being compared to Daei, which is wrong thing to do and it's not a valid argument to be used to call Karimi a weak finisher.

Ok, thanks for the elaboration. I got your point now.

Just on the side note.... Ali Karimi did play as a second striker for a while even though he played mostly as CAM. That was before Hashemian's addition to TM.

Anyways.... Ali Karimi was one of our greatest players of all times. As one of the greatest, you get to play lots of games for a long time. If you play in TM long enough, your scoring chart will go up. If you really wanna compare who's a better finisher, you need to look at their goals per game stats. When you do, you see there is a much bigger gap between Bagheri and Karimi. and Bagheri reached there by playing DM for a good while, whereas the latter never played defensive positions in TM. Beside Bagheri there were also other midfielders who were better at scoring than Karimi. Like Ali Jabbari and Alidoosti.

Having said that, I don't think Karimi was a very bad finisher. Not even during the first half of his career as you stated. Sure he missed lots of good chances, like for example the one against Ireland or the many chances against UAE in 2001. but he also scored many good goals. Like his beautiful long distance rocket against Slovakia (or was it Slovenia?). However, in important games when it mattered, he was quite an average goal scorer. and I think that had to do with his psyche. Even during big games that reached penalty shoot-out, Karimi always refused to take any. He was never mentally up for it.

[kian_khosh]

^ I don't think you've been reading all the posts carefully?

There were complaints about Karimi being a bad finisher, and he was being compared with Daei and Azmoun who wouldn't have been scoring the chances that Karimi had missed.

My posts are about the fact that that's an unfair comparison. Karimi was an attacking midfielder not a forward and shouldn't be compared to the best two forwards/finishers of our history.

Karimi was never a second striker, like Azizi was. Just because he was very attacking minded doesn't make him a forward who we should expect to be a good finisher. Nekounam played as a forward against Real Madrid for Ossasuna, Chealse, Man-U and Barca regularly have sent their center backs to play as a forward for the last 15-30 minutes. Both Barca and Spained fielded Fabregass regularly as their center forward. Just because they played there doesn't make them forwards nor finishers.

Karimi was a midfielder and should be compared to other midfielders.

Despite being a poor finisher in his early years, he improved massively later on and became our 4th top scorer of all times. Making him a very good finisher.

I gave examples of world class midfielders in teams where midfielders score a lot and yet Karimi is a better finisher than them. Making his finishing skills world class for a midfielder. Still doesn't mean that he should be compared to forwards.

The example of Bagheri was given with the claim that he was a better finisher than Karimi (I don't agree, I think Karimi was a more complete finisher compared to him) and that he was better than most forward (which Karimi was as well).

My reply was that Bagheri was a very high scoring midfielder, yet Daei was a better finisher. And Karimi was being compared to Daei, which is wrong thing to do and it's not a valid argument to be used to call Karimi a weak finisher.

I wouldn't say Nekounam played as a striker, more like a false 9 similar to Bobby Firmino

[ShiroKhorshid]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tEFArok1g
The wizards last season. I still believe we could have won our first match against Nigeria if Karimi was part of the squad. Even if he had not started that match, i believe he could have gotten us a penalty or somethin Karimi like.