Who had the better career at Bayern?

[KC McElroy]

6? Is that only league games?
Also how many of those 32 caps were substitute appearances? I’d be willing to bet close to half of them were

It's 6 for league games and overall games (he didn't score in any other competition). Here are his full stats with all the minutes of each game: https://www.transfermarkt.com/ali-da.../335/verein/27
If we wanna get too technical it's in 1589 minutes of play over 32 games. As you say about half of his games are as a sub but that really feeds more into his career at Bayern not being that successful.
Again this isn't a critique of the players themselves but strictly about how they did at Bayern.

Edit: Did he get injured in November-December of 1998? He is absent from the squads.
Second edit: I'm guessing it was due to preparation and him playing for Iran at the Asian Games.

[KC McElroy]

Well then even if you count only number 2, 4 and 5, Daei would win 4 and 5 whereas Karimi would be superior only at 2. So I will go with Daei first.
ps. didn't know about that unvoting option. Done.

I don't believe Daei would win at 5. I think they both progressed just about the same during their time there although I might give Karimi the edge in progressing since he actually got playing time. Daei wins at 4 but not due to his time at Bayern but rather his goals for TM. I doubt his presence at Bayern had any impact on him or Iran becoming more famous. Any notability achieved was as a result of his TM games/goals. So in regards to this thread and just Bayern, I don't think any of them really achieved number 4.

[Sly]

Daei had 6 goals in 32 games for Bayern. That's about a goal once every 5 games. For a forward I would not consider that a good record.

You need to see how many minutes he played in each game too. Goals per minutes would be a more accurate calculation if you wanna judge him.

I remember Daei would get subbed in late, in many games. Because of all his international duties with TM, they preferred Janker to start most of the games.

[Sly]

I don't believe Daei would win at 5. I think they both progressed just about the same during their time there although I might give Karimi the edge in progressing since he actually got playing time. Daei wins at 4 but not due to his time at Bayern but rather his goals for TM. I doubt his presence at Bayern had any impact on him or Iran becoming more famous. Any notability achieved was as a result of his TM games/goals. So in regards to this thread and just Bayern, I don't think any of them really achieved number 4.

Daei did not progress. He was always as good, before and after his Bayern time. It was rather Karimi who regressed.

[KC McElroy]

You need to see how many minutes he played in each game too. Goals per minutes would be a more accurate calculation if you wanna judge him.
I remember Daei would get subbed in late, in many games. Because of all his international duties with TM, they preferred Janker to start most of the games.

I posted that above in reply to ghermez agha but I also pointed out that the fact that he wasn't getting playing time reflects on his Bayern career not being too successful.

[KC McElroy]

Daei did not progress. He was always as good, before and after his Bayern time. It was rather Karimi who regressed.

I disagree. I think they both progressed. When you train and play with Bayern you progress.

[BacheLot]

I disagree. I think they both progressed. When you train and play with Bayern you progress.

karimi's ball distribution and tactical awareness and classic AM play indeed improved massively druring his bayern spell ..!!
oddly, often its only his dribbling which everyone raves and go gaagaa about..! when there is so sooooo much more refined sophistication and simple football briiliance with his overall game otherwise..!
a tiki taka style, Total Team Performance sort of a football coach, like Guardiola is the type who would really appreciate AK8 as full package, top class all around mfdr/footballer...!! unfortunately for Ali he never really got a chance in his career to be paired with such a coach nor really a team who'd rely on that sort of playing style..!

[inarsenewetrust]

karimi's ball distribution and tactical awareness and classic AM play indeed improved massively druring his bayern spell ..!!
oddly, often its only his dribbling which everyone raves and go gaagaa about..! when there is so sooooo much more refined sophistication and simple football briiliance with his overall game otherwise..!
a tiki taka style, Total Team Performance sort of a football coach, like Guardiola is the type who would really appreciate AK8 as full package, top class all around mfdr/footballer...!! unfortunately for Ali he never really got a chance in his career to be paired with such a coach nor really a team who'd rely on that sort of playing style..!

that a lot to do with the era. Teams back then were still focussed on physical play, more direct style mechanical style. It was effective back then, and considering how teams were so conservatively oriented a strictly on the ground passing approach would have been hard to execute (very low blocks). Even more relevant, defenders main jobs were to defend back then. Thats all. Now all top teams have very capable ball playing CBs and full backs, essentially playmakers from the defensive line. This was pretty unheard of back then, even if top defenders were of course technically proficient.

Considering all this, and the fact he was just coming from Qatar, he did quite well overall. Injury and not being emotionally adapted to german way of life were the main reason he didnt go farther.

Daei and hash can both be categorized as failures I think. which in itself is not a dig against them, they still went on to have successful performances in bundesliga after bayern.

[Nokhodi]

Honestly, they all really had bad luck.

Daei was in a Bayern team that wanted to force Jancker in no matter what.
Daei averaged 55' a game in Bayern, he came off the bench alot and was not allowed to gain a rhythm. He got only 68' of play in the Champions League in total which is just unfair. I remember he came on in the last 15 minutes of one of BM's games against Dynamo Kyiv and came close to scoring. This was before the big overhaul of German football post-2000. It was very much stuck in nurturing their own players no matter what - especially if they were big ox.

Hashemian was just pure unlucky. He was bought in under the recommendation of Hittzfield, who left before the season started. Magath came and didn't like Hashemian at all. Poor guy didn't get to start much and averaged about 30' in the league. He was mostly used in the Cup. Really unfair although very typical of Bayern who buy out the league's best forwards, simply to crush their opponents.

Karimi did quite well in season 1, and to me his first season is a success. I don't know what happened in season 2 but he seemed to give up. The bad part of his personality took over and he refused to even sign an extension. Magath really liked him and he didn't take advantage. Shameful.

[KC McElroy]

Daei was in a Bayern team that wanted to force Jancker in no matter what.

He scored just about every other game for Bayern. I don't think one can argue with keeping him as a starting forward.

[KC McElroy]

Another thing I just noticed is that Karimi also was for the most part a sub, playing only 4 full games. So I don't think Daei's sub minutes and stats can be used as justification when comparing their careers against each other.

[Nokhodi]

Another thing I just noticed is that Karimi also was for the most part a sub, playing only 4 full games. So I don't think Daei's sub minutes and stats can be used as justification when comparing their careers against each other.

We can't really compare as they are in different positions completely.

[Sly]

karimi's ball distribution and tactical awareness and classic AM play indeed improved massively druring his bayern spell ..!!

I disagree. Irrespective of his dribbling which I some times thought were a waste of time, he was always extremely good at ball distribution and his role as AM. If anything, the German style of football at his Bayern time took away his explosive, creative game and instead made him very passive.

[_Navid_]

Daei would have had a much better season if he didn't keep flying for every useless TM friendly game.

[KC McElroy]

Daei would have had a much better season if he didn't keep flying for every useless TM friendly game.

That's a very valid point.