Promotion from youth TMs to TM

[KC McElroy]

2017 was a good year for us in terms of youth. Both our U20 and U17 teams qualified for the World Cup. While the U20s were eliminated by a single point in their group, the U17s made it to the quarterfinals. It seems like only 4 players (Sayyadmanesh, Delfi, Shekari, Noorafkan) from the combined roster of 42 have made it to TM. Furthermore very few of them seem to have even gotten any playing time with a club (assuming they even have one as some of them have been unattached for the past 2 years). What is happening to our younger players trying to make the jump to the next stage? Even if not making it to TM, why are they not progressing at a club level?

[pajamNL]

good thread, do we have any good youth system in Iran that connects with our pro level?
Is it because of economic problems (kids have to work to help their families)?
Is it cultural (at a certain age, parents demand focus on school which causes these kids to quit their football ambitions)?

[ShirFarhad]

I think our expectations are not realistic when it comes to youth players. We have had this discussion before and compared the squads of teams participating in the U17 world cup where we beat the Netherlands. Only a handful players of the top teams have been successful so far.

Same comparison can be made now. If you look at Spain's squad that beat us 3-1 in the 2017 world cup. Only 1 player is a fixed player for a top team (Ferran Torres). Four other players are under contract with top teams but only 1 of them has been playing more than 5 games for his club.

[inarsenewetrust]

good thread.

IF we look at another great generation, u17 team that also made it to RO16 in UAE 2013, we see probably our most successful generation (in terms of guys who made it).

Majid hosseini, Saeid ezatolahi, sadegh moharrami, ali gholizadeh, iman salimi have all became TM regulars or in TM picture (salimi is close imo).

Amirhossein karimi, moslem mojadami,hossein mehraban, Reza Jafari, and GK amini have all become PGPL regulars.

6-7 guys play in azadegan.

2 guys dont play football, including the RB mostafa hashemi who scored goal of the tournament in draw vs argentina.

This is a very healthy progression overall. But as you say KC, not the norm.

Many reasons, primarily I would highlight sarbazi, where players at the ages of 18-21, right as they are getting "pokhte" in footballing terms, crucial development years, are forced to quit football for 2 years. Their counterparts in europe are receiving the keys to their football futures in these years, in senior team trainings, senior match football, intro to professional lifestyle, not to mention their development has been much more calculated since a young age.

so many talents are lost due to sarbazi and its after effects on a young players development.

[inarsenewetrust]

I think our expectations are not realistic when it comes to youth players. We have had this discussion before and compared the squads of teams participating in the U17 world cup where we beat the Netherlands. Only a handful players of the top teams have been successful so far.
Same comparison can be made now. If you look at Spain's squad that beat us 3-1 in the 2017 world cup. Only 1 player is a fixed player for a top team (Ferran Torres). Four other players are under contract with top teams but only 1 of them has been playing more than 5 games for his club.

agreed. It is too early to draw conclusions about the sayyadmanesh class that got to QF. They are still just babies. But in general it is a reality in our football. 90 and adel did a segment on it a few years back.

[KC McElroy]

Even if we accept the economic reasons or cultural factors, then where are the actual players in our club teams coming from? After all, they were once under 20 and 17 as well.

[Nokhodi]

This is pretty normal. Not every player is going to make it. I guess the comparison I would make is not every NCAA player is going to make the NBA.

[KC McElroy]

This is pretty normal. Not every player is going to make it. I guess the comparison I would make is not every NCAA player is going to make the NBA.

True but what about the other way around? Is every (or at least most) NBA players former NCAA players?

[kian_khosh]

True but what about the other way around? Is every (or at least most) NBA players former NCAA players?

Almost all the time, unless they come from g-league or overseas

[Medzdidz]

I get what you are saying KC, you are saying that the Players in the league all came from somewhere, from a youth system and they are playing games at club level but maybe never played for Iran at any age level.
Maybe it could be the pressure for some of them, the expectation of those players to succeed after some great results in the tournament. They have had some good moves , Delfi getting a start in Belgium and has been unlucky with injuries, Shekari just never got a chance in Russia and rumours are it could be the same with sayyadmanesh in Turkey. It could be that they need more time in the youth set up at a team, time to develop physically and also to gain some confidence.
I suppose as is said it is the same in any youth set up, I am a Liverpool fan and the amount of times I have heard about how brilliant this young player is and then a few years later he is playing in non league football or somewhere like Scotland. They were good at youth level but then for some reason it didn’t develop, whereas some players develop later and out of the limelight or their physical attributes develop at a later stage.
I’m guessing there is a lot of answers to these questions but not one that stands out as the main one.

[inarsenewetrust]

Even if we accept the economic reasons or cultural factors, then where are the actual players in our club teams coming from? After all, they were once under 20 and 17 as well.

many players arent spotted, develop suddenly, etc. Taremi, ebrahimi, amiri are all great examples of players who didnt play with TM at any age group, and went on to become important players. Again sarbazi ties in here as these guys totally dropped football while completing theirs.

[KC McElroy]

How do we even form our youth teams? I guess we have the few standouts that despite their young age already have a club team and get playing time but what about the rest? Where do they get scouted? Especially our U17 team where the players should be in high school.

[inarsenewetrust]

How do we even form our youth teams? I guess we have the few standouts that despite their young age already have a club team and get playing time but what about the rest? Where do they get scouted? Especially our U17 team where the players should be in high school.

With Chamanian u17 team there were provincial tournaments where best players from all regions of the country were selected. This was done primarily by chamanian himself and the entire staff, all working in different regions.

The best players from each region formed regional teams and were brought together for a tournament later on, where chamanian and all staff were again present and observed every single match, picking the pool of players from the top performers.

Im not sure if this is the method carried out for u17 teams since then but I think it was standard prior to that, chamanian just made it more effective and streamlined, and this showed in the u17 teams success later on. Throughout the years leading up the WC, certain players filtered in and out based on their development.

[KC McElroy]

With Chamanian u17 team there were provincial tournaments where best players from all regions of the country were selected. This was done primarily by chamanian himself and the entire staff, all working in different regions.

The best players from each region formed regional teams and were brought together for a tournament later on, where chamanian and all staff were again present and observed every single match, picking the pool of players from the top performers.

Im not sure if this is the method carried out for u17 teams since then but I think it was standard prior to that, chamanian just made it more effective and streamlined, and this showed in the u17 teams success later on. Throughout the years leading up the WC, certain players filtered in and out based on their development.

How did those players make their provincial teams? Open tryouts?