CQ Iran Assessment Thread! (Mature Non-Emotional Discussion)

[Essi]

This is an interesting way to frame the discussion.
My views are well known about this topic so I'll keep it short. There is no evidence to say we were the best in Asia at the time period after WC 2006 to 2011. We only squeaked out our AC group in 2007 and lost to Korea in QF. World cup 2010 we finished 4th out of 5 in a group that had S. Korea, Saudi, NK and UAE. If we really were the best in Asia there is no excuse to finish behind North Korea.

Did we win titles with CQ? No but we had a foundation set for contonuous improvement of our football which somehow was blown up by Wilmots and IFF. I prefer gradual progress than highs and lows.

Excellent Post. Barikalla

[tooleh khers]

This is an interesting way to frame the discussion.
My views are well known about this topic so I'll keep it short. There is no evidence to say we were the best in Asia at the time period after WC 2006 to 2011. We only squeaked out our AC group in 2007 and lost to Korea in QF. World cup 2010 we finished 4th out of 5 in a group that had S. Korea, Saudi, NK and UAE. If we really were the best in Asia there is no excuse to finish behind North Korea.
Did we win titles with CQ? No but we had a foundation set for continuous improvement of our football which somehow was blown up by Wilmots and IFF. I prefer gradual progress than highs and lows.

This continuous improvement you speak of was very marginal to say the least if it even existed. If a continuous improvement ever occurred why would it be blown up by a couple of games under another? 8 years of continuous improvement yielded no result above TM past results in recent memory and was blown away by a couple of games under a new coach?! Like I said most teams would fire a coach after he does not get desired results. For teams like Iran (who no one claimed was best in Asia) it is expected to at least appear in the semis of the Asian cup like it has so many times and make an appearance into the second round of a world cup (not win it or anything overly ambitious). I believe these are quite realistic expectations to have. By all measures he should have been fired after the world cup but given the Asian cup followed it was decided that it would be best to continue at least for the Asian cup. However, after our worst result in recent memory in the Asian cup he should have been fired. So the first 4 years there was nothing achieved above Iran's all time results and potential. The last 4 years also did not achieve anything above our standards and did not meet expectation of any self respecting Asian power. Fact is no way he would have been given 8 years in Saudi, Korea, Japan, Aussie..with the results he got in Iran. And that is the difference. These countries expect to win the Asian Cup and expect to not only go to the world cup but advance and anything other than this is considered a failure and be met with dismissal. He was successful in TM fans lowering their expectation and partly TM's past failures in WCQ helped in this. However, fans need to realize that getting a group with only Korea and two advancing instead of only one is not the same as having a Saudi along with only one team qualifying. The luck of the draw will always affect qualification to the world cup and advancement from the group so they should be accounted for. It is no feat to qualify over a Qatar or an Uzbekistan.

[Doctor DOOM]

My 2 cents:
As a former CQ-antagonist and later, a mild-convert I must say numbers dont mean anything. especially that silly, inconsequential #1 in Asia.
balls to that.

Pros -
- He stabilized our traditionally unstable, temperamental and unpredictable TM, into a team that you could actually foresee how they would perform in a particular match up.

- He injected the much needed discipline, especially in defensive tactics. But also some offensive modes as well.

- He stood up (mostly) to all the shenanigans by IFF & IR meddling and brought a lot of things for Iran's national team set up that under many other coaches would have been next to impossible.

- He also created a close-knit unit of the core of TM players, who gelled well together & allowed for higher performance ... culmination of which was the last WC performance that was a highlight for TM's history.

- I believe he genuinely loved his team & players. Stood up for them & fought for them.
which is far more than what can be said about many other TM coaches, who put their own post as priority



Cons-
- He didnt get the results that were needed. 2 Asia cups went by & we, while being Asia's No. 1, didnt get zip.
And being a "result-oriented" coach, he clearly failed there.

- Over-reliance on defensive tactics and team defense, our attacking suffered. And in tournaments where SCORING goals matter, & far less, conceding, it showed!



Out of 10, I'd give him 7.5-8.
which is much higher than many others before & after him

[Bladsville]

Not only is your post full of misinformation, but its just a long rant, like a pissed off senile old uncle in the corner who just keeps on going and no one cares about. But I will go ahead and entertain you and try to keep it as simple as possible so you can understand.

This continuous improvement you speak of was very marginal to say the least if it even existed. If a continuous improvement ever occurred why would it be blown up by a couple of games under another? 8 years of continuous improvement yielded no result above TM past results in recent memory and was blown away by a couple of games under a new coach?!

I dont know if you just started watching football a couple months ago, but the manager is a pretty big contributor to the game. He selects which players will be invited to play and which will start. Also the manager selects a formation and plan of attack for the players. These decisions, as well as some others, made by Wilmots were very bad and completely *** edited*** us up.

Like I said most teams would fire a coach after he does not get desired results. For teams like Iran (who no one claimed was best in Asia)

CQ took reigns of TM when it has a FIFA ranking of 66. Under his management, TM went to 29. At one point, TM was the top team in Asia. So yes, several people claimed that.

it is expected to at least appear in the semis of the Asian cup like it has so many times and make an appearance into the second round of a world cup (not win it or anything overly ambitious). I believe these are quite realistic expectations to have.

In a group with *** edited *** Spain and Portugal, and you think we are going to move on? What planet were you born on? The fact that we tied Portugal and didnt lose 7-0 to Spain is fantastic enough. Get real with your realistic expectations.

By all measures he should have been fired after the world cup but given the Asian cup followed it was decided that it would be best to continue at least for the Asian cup. However, after our worst result in recent memory in the Asian cup he should have been fired. So the first 4 years there was nothing achieved above Iran's all time results and potential.

We havent won the AFC since the *** edited*** 70s, what are you on about?

The last 4 years also did not achieve anything above our standards and did not meet expectation of any self respecting Asian power. Fact is no way he would have been given 8 years in Saudi, Korea, Japan, Aussie..with the results he got in Iran. And that is the difference.

Self respecting Asian power that gets their Nike sponsorship pulled hours before a WC match? Asian power that doesnt allow women into their stadiums? Asian power that will never ever host an AC or WC tournament ever because of their backwards government? Asian Power that places bans on their players for not doing military service or when one plays against an Israeli team?
Try to find anyone ANYWHERE *** edited*** CLOSE to the credibility that CQ has that would put up with that shit. You wont find it.

These countries expect to win the Asian Cup and expect to not only go to the world cup but advance and anything other than this is considered a failure and be met with dismissal. He was successful in TM fans lowering their expectation and partly TM's past failures in WCQ helped in this. However, fans need to realize that getting a group with only Korea and two advancing instead of only one is not the same as having a Saudi along with only one team qualifying. The luck of the draw will always affect qualification to the world cup and advancement from the group so they should be accounted for. It is no feat to qualify over a Qatar or an Uzbekistan.

That is the downside of some people unfortunately. Super ungrateful and just hate on the side lines. You're just some sad little person who hasn't acheived .000001% of what CQ did in his life, yet you think you are some authority to speak on the matter.







Moderators note: clean language plz!
Thanks

[KC McElroy]

This continuous improvement you speak of was very marginal to say the least if it even existed. If a continuous improvement ever occurred why would it be blown up by a couple of games under another? 8 years of continuous improvement yielded no result above TM past results in recent memory and was blown away by a couple of games under a new coach?! Like I said most teams would fire a coach after he does not get desired results. For teams like Iran (who no one claimed was best in Asia) it is expected to at least appear in the semis of the Asian cup like it has so many times and make an appearance into the second round of a world cup (not win it or anything overly ambitious). I believe these are quite realistic expectations to have. By all measures he should have been fired after the world cup but given the Asian cup followed it was decided that it would be best to continue at least for the Asian cup. However, after our worst result in recent memory in the Asian cup he should have been fired. So the first 4 years there was nothing achieved above Iran's all time results and potential. The last 4 years also did not achieve anything above our standards and did not meet expectation of any self respecting Asian power. Fact is no way he would have been given 8 years in Saudi, Korea, Japan, Aussie..with the results he got in Iran. And that is the difference. These countries expect to win the Asian Cup and expect to not only go to the world cup but advance and anything other than this is considered a failure and be met with dismissal. He was successful in TM fans lowering their expectation and partly TM's past failures in WCQ helped in this. However, fans need to realize that getting a group with only Korea and two advancing instead of only one is not the same as having a Saudi along with only one team qualifying. The luck of the draw will always affect qualification to the world cup and advancement from the group so they should be accounted for. It is no feat to qualify over a Qatar or an Uzbekistan.

Your post contained the numbers 1, 2, 4 and 8.
.

[inarsenewetrust]

This was posted by medzdidz in other thread. I find it telling the anti CQ crowd has so far failed to address or even try to address it.

"My question for those who are against the tactics that CQ played in the World Cup. How would you have played it? What do you think he should have done differently?

Do you think we would have done better if we played more all out attack against Portugal and Spain? Would you have been happier if we played attacking and got smashed 5-0 by each team?

Would your opinion have changed if Taremi scored the winner against Portugal? Don’t you think a draw against the European Champions in a World Cup is a great result?

Just looking at the World Cup 2018 specifically here."

[Essi]

My 2 cents:
As a former CQ-antagonist and later, a mild-convert I must say numbers dont mean anything. especially that silly, inconsequential #1 in Asia.
balls to that.

Pros -
- He stabilized our traditionally unstable, temperamental and unpredictable TM, into a team that you could actually foresee how they would perform in a particular match up.

- He injected the much needed discipline, especially in defensive tactics. But also some offensive modes as well.

- He stood up (mostly) to all the shenanigans by IFF & IR meddling and brought a lot of things for Iran's national team set up that under many other coaches would have been next to impossible.

- He also created a close-knit unit of the core of TM players, who gelled well together & allowed for higher performance ... culmination of which was the last WC performance that was a highlight for TM's history.

- I believe he genuinely loved his team & players. Stood up for them & fought for them.
which is far more than what can be said about many other TM coaches, who put their own post as priority



Cons-
- He didnt get the results that were needed. 2 Asia cups went by & we, while being Asia's No. 1, didnt get zip.
And being a "result-oriented" coach, he clearly failed there.

- Over-reliance on defensive tactics and team defense, our attacking suffered. And in tournaments where SCORING goals matter, & far less, conceding, it showed!



Out of 10, I'd give him 7.5-8.
which is much higher than many others before & after him

Eyvall Doci jan, kam peydai

[Farzadfarhangni]

Not directly related to thread but new FIFA rankings is out we are 21st!!! I truly have no idea what the hell this number means? Japan 26, Turkey 39, Morocco 45, Russia 46.

I am the biggest CQ fan, but I don't believe we were the undisputed #1 ranked team in Asia at any point during his rein. Perhaps we were tied with Japan for a little while.

I like the pros and cons of dr. doom but don't know how to rank him. Perhaps from a soccer tactical perspective, I give him a 7.5 out of 10 with 10 being the best coaches in the world. But none of those best coaches in the world would last more than 2 weeks in Iran... From the perspective of understanding his environment and getting the most done with given realities, I would give him a 10 out of 10.

[Essi]

Not directly related to thread but new FIFA rankings is out we are 21st!!! I truly have no idea what the hell this number means? Japan 26, Turkey 39, Morocco 45, Russia 46.

I am the biggest CQ fan, but I don't believe we were the undisputed #1 ranked team in Asia at any point during his rein. Perhaps we were tied with Japan for a little while.

I like the pros and cons of dr. doom but don't know how to rank him. Perhaps from a soccer tactical perspective, I give him a 7.5 out of 10 with 10 being the best coaches in the world. But none of those best coaches in the world would last more than 2 weeks in Iran... From the perspective of understanding his environment and getting the most done with given realities, I would give him a 10 out of 10.

Wrong Aziz. We are 29th.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-rank...ing-table/men/

[Farzadfarhangni]

Wrong Aziz. We are 29th.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-rank...ing-table/men/

My bad. I was looking at an old table. We are indeed 29th. Thanks for that catch.

[Futbaldoost]

Thank you for starting this thread. Maybe we could have objective discussions away from quick judgements and reactions.

Here are my two cents:

1- CQ took the job when our national football was at it's one of the lows, probably the worst low in recent decades, in terms of talent and league situation. We only had Javad Nekounam and Masoud Shajaei in Europe (La Liga). Our league had 18 teams and was not brewing with talent to say the least. Our Federation had come out of a disastrous WC 2010 qualification campaign after the fiascos post 2006 WC appearance. Also, TM had a disappointing show in Qatar 2011 AC being eliminated in QFs against Korea where Afshin Ghotbi did not lead the team with gusto but cowered to Koreans before the match started. We were lucky that CQ had just come out of a ban himself and took the job.

2- CQ made a significant contribution to IPL in multiple ways:
i- Convinced Taj, who was director of IPL a the time, to reduce the number of teams to 16
ii- Gave Taj guidance to improve the stats by forcing older players out, put in guidelines and regulations on playing younger players, increase the running stats in matches per teams.
iii- Made sure that league officials got it that TM was a higher priority.
This resulted in significant improvement of the league over the years and more talent delivered to TM and Europe. We are now witnessing the fruits of that with an unprecedented number of our players in Europe.

3- He started looking for talent outside Iran from Iranians born abroad or dual citizens who move there very young. This resulted in getting two key players in Dejagah and Ghoochannejad and later Ghoddoos to join TM. This was not an easy task and he put his credibility on the line to get these players to join TM. Its easy to see that now but at the time TM had not qualified for WC 2014 and it was a risky proposition for CQ and the dual-citizenship players. He built the team around Nekounam (La Liga), Dejagah and Ghochaannejad that was critical to WC 2014 qualification. Considering the lack of friendlies and below average IFF preparation of TM for 2014, plus lack of enough talent, TM performance in 2014 WC exceeded expectations around the world. TM could have defeated Argentina in Belo Horizonte if VAR had been enabled four years earlier.

4- CQ worked hard to make sure TM camp facilities in Tehran gets to international level by safeguarding the opening of PEC and zamineh shomareh yek that required significant investment in cash starved IFF. All TMs are now utilizing these facilities and it has taken us to a new level.

5- CQ created a level of unity and cohesion that we had not seen since the days of Dehdari and Mohajerani. He showed gumption and courage by firing Rahmati and Agheelee when they clearly conspired together to leave and cause his failure and firing in the WC 2014 campaign. If we had this same level of cohesion and oneness in 2006 campaign we could have defeated Mexico and Angola with the level of talent we had back then (my speculation of course).

The only thing I don't miss about CQ was that sometimes he let the overall corruption and backstabbing in Iran football get to him and went unhinged. His interview against Branco right after WC 2018 is one example. I don't have any love lost for Branco yet what CQ did was uncalled for from a professional standpoint.

I think we should be forever grateful to CQ's contributions to Iranian football that gave us a whole new level of credibility and stability worldwide. I tried to avoid repeating the points that others made like defensive acumen and others.

Go TM!
Go CQ!

[DR Strangemoosh]

I think what Queiroz did for Iran's football was phenomenal.

He was not perfect, far from it - character-wise he had good and bad parts like many other people in the world.

But what he did was revolutionise our football, the way we approached matches and the mentality during matches. As my football pundit friend said "you guys play like a well-drilled club side, not a national team".

He sowed seeds for our future in some tremendously damaged soil, some of which are only just starting to grow into shoots of hope. And a lot of what he did can't really be quantified, but CAN be qualified:, eg:

Taremi: "I have always admired all my teachers and coaches since my childhood. I admire Mr. Queiroz for teaching me to be strong, to work hard, and to struggle in life against challenges. I promise to achieve here in Portugal everything that I have always sought. Your comments are a huge honor and increase my responsibility, ”he wrote on Instagram."
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1mDYNTp...ource=ig_embed

I genuinely don't think any other coach would have called up Majid Hosseini to WC2018, or pushed many other young and up-and-coming players above established TM players.
But I can't qualify his experience much more than this member here, who higlights some of the intangibles that this coach brought, only a few months before he finished his 8 years:


http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...t=#post2574826



http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...t=#post2571094

Both are great coaches and have worked hard in our football. I dont know about who has what in their heart but Cq is definitely more demanding and I am assuming perhaps i am wrong but he is more detailed oriented as well.

http://www.persianfootball.com/forum...t=#post2550766

This is one of the things I admire about CQ. He is a real coach who has 0 bias in his selection. I would trust his selection over any of these analysts and experts making lists from their couches at home. Also I believe whoever says CQ is not watching the league is absolutely wrong. He has proven time and time again that not only does he watch and follow the league but he does it with extreme detail and professionalism. Just look at the people he has brought on, some no one even knew about but here they are. A good example would be Gholizadeh..

[Adesor Vafaseya]

Guys,

Thanks for great replies and perspectives. Appreciated! Keep them coming!


Just two remarks from a moderating point of view:
- Plz lets not finger point at other members and directly challenge them, lets keep this thread purely objective. Tks.
- Pls lets keep clean language here too (had to edit the famous F words on few occasions here.) Cheers



Keep the good discussions and point of views coming! Merci.

[perspolis#1]

This continuous improvement you speak of was very marginal to say the least if it even existed. If a continuous improvement ever occurred why would it be blown up by a couple of games under another? 8 years of continuous improvement yielded no result above TM past results in recent memory and was blown away by a couple of games under a new coach?! Like I said most teams would fire a coach after he does not get desired results. For teams like Iran (who no one claimed was best in Asia) it is expected to at least appear in the semis of the Asian cup like it has so many times and make an appearance into the second round of a world cup (not win it or anything overly ambitious). I believe these are quite realistic expectations to have.
.

If Iran has never been to the round of 16 why would qualifying to it be a reasonable expectation? Let alone that in a group with Spain and Portugal. Each of those Asian countries you listed HAVE reached the R16. So expecting a repeat is more understandable.

As for qualifying for the world cup... if we exclude both world cups in the 80s(due to the war and being forced out) we onyl qualified for 3 out of 7 world cups from 1974 to 2010. Given those numbers, qualifying to the world cup still counts as an achievement. Qualifying to two back to world cups has not been done in our history and was a sign of progress.

Wilmots did ruin this legacy by putting us in a hole and losing to teams that CQ's Iran would never lose to in a group stage format.

[mahestan]

Just the fact that CQ created a mentality and pushed TM players to take the next step, move to bigger leagues and clubs has been huge for our football. The number of players that have gone abroad is increasing, and think about the impact this is having on the next generation of players. I know that the we have a major problem with grassroots youth football in Iran, but even then, the younger generation is growing up seeing all of our players abroad making an impact, improving and reaching higher which will make them want to follow their footsteps.