Clarification on skocic vs CQ misinformation..

[Taz]

I like the idea that your average know-nothing tabloid reading English football fan respects Japan and South Korea because of their playing style and not the fact they've actually heard of their players

No Asian national teams' performances register on the radar of your average European football fan beside their 3/4 games every 4 years. No one watches Asian Cup let alone Asian WC Qualifiers.

South Korea have one of the world's best players and one of the most in-form players in the EPL and Japan have a history of recognisable names and 1 current player at Liverpool. Those 2 alone bring a bit of familiarity to those teams for your average English fan but even drawing against either of them would be met with positivity because no Asian side is to be feared.

Your average English fan isn't familiar with ARJ and Ghoddos let alone Taremi and Azmoun. And let's be honest, them thinking Iran is a good draw on names alone may be disrespectful but it's certainly not innacurate if they'd watched any of our disgusting performances over the last 2 years.

[Lorestani]

And did Arya from Gol Bezan submit any evidence of him being a yes man? Curious to see what sanad or madrak Arya has. Not sure very many Yes Men would state second round of WC is the teams goal. Yes men would more likely state we are happy to be here and participate...

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It always amazes me how people ask for hard evidence whenever they are confronted with an argument they don't like. Like is anyone of your own opinions based on some smoking gun evidence that you have uncovered? If no, how come you resort to this high bar when people say things you don't like? Btw, you know what the evidence is in this particular case? Zero friendlies scheduled as of yet vs. CQ ripping the federation a new one every time they tried to obstruct his plans, with the tangible consequence of having some semi-decent friendlies in the run-up to the two world cups he led us to.

[O-ZoNe]

It always amazes me how people ask for hard evidence whenever they are confronted with an argument they don't like. Like is anyone of your own opinions based on some smoking gun evidence that you have uncovered? If no, how come you resort to this high bar when people say things you don't like? Btw, you know what the evidence is in this particular case? Zero friendlies scheduled as of yet vs. CQ ripping the federation a new one every time they tried to obstruct his plans, with the tangible consequence of having some semi-decent friendlies in the run-up to the two world cups he led us to.

Opinions are not facts. I've continuously stated this. My opinions are no more valid than yours or vice versa. What does CQ have to do with Skocic being a yes man? How do you know Skocic is being supported by IFF or vice versa? Maybe we can't get friendlies cause Skocic wants x and IFF demanding Y. The evidence you presented and others have countlessly mentioned is that IFF is inept and has a track record of failing to deliver on coaches demands, fans expectations, and any semblance of preparation. So which is it now?

So all of a sudden we are to believe IFF and Skocic are in cahoots when they couldn't get along with any other coach to date? Ya I think this sudden reversal warrants some evidence that backs this claim up.

The problem in our society and sports is the Khaleh Zanak bazi. It amazes me that we feel it is ok to slander, defame, and if called out we say well believe us. We are an authority on the issue. If you make factual claims...or quote a source, you should back it up.

Everyday IFF officials come on and make claims about friendlies, then say ask this or that person for details as i cannot provide more...give it up. It's such a viscious cycle and some of our fans are no better than IFF.

The Skocic hate is unreal!

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[Babak agha]

He put Iran back in people's minds. Anyone who spoke to pundits or people from other countries at the world cups could see that



Were they playing for Bayern right before CQ took over? The team was in the absolute wilderness.



If we can't appreciate things - simply how the guy impacted & revolutionalised our football, then we are doomed to failure again and again.

I'll bet you most people still will think of Ali Daei if you mention Iran. Iran was never 'gone' from people's mind, as much as it is not in their mind now. Literally our opponents coaches have said they don't know much about Iran and they have to study us. So I don't really get what type of argument this is..

It's true that during his time he at least demanded for better conditions, but you should also forget that Iran was in a slightly better situation then compared to now.

If things were going better, we wouldn't have ended up with Skocic in the first place.

Now imagine if CQ was an option at all to start with.. the guy already has proven 4 times that he can't achieve the desired results in the cups that matter, so why do we keep mentioning him? He might be better than Skocic, but still not good enough to get us anywhere.

[Lorestani]

Opinions are not facts. I've continuously stated this. My opinions are no more valid than yours or vice versa. What does CQ have to do with Skocic being a yes man? How do you know Skocic is being supported by IFF or vice versa? Maybe we can't get friendlies cause Skocic wants x and IFF demanding Y. The evidence you presented and others have countlessly mentioned is that IFF is inept and has a track record of failing to deliver on coaches demands, fans expectations, and any semblance of preparation. So which is it now?
So all of a sudden we are to believe IFF and Skocic are in cahoots when they couldn't get along with any other coach to date? Ya I think this sudden reversal warrants some evidence that backs this claim up.
The problem in our society and sports is the Khaleh Zanak bazi. It amazes me that we feel it is ok to slander, defame, and if called out we say well believe us. We are an authority on the issue. If you make factual claims...or quote a source, you should back it up.
Everyday IFF officials come on and make claims about friendlies, then say ask this or that person for details as i cannot provide more...give it up. It's such a viscious cycle and some of our fans are no better than IFF.
The Skocic hate is unreal!
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Who, in his right mind, would argue that opinions are facts? Of course they are not. No one claimed so, you are building a straw man. What I did say though was that opinions are, in an ideal world, based on evidence. Perhaps yours aren't, but most people would agree that their opinions are not based on hypothetical conjunctions but rather real-world evidence.
Again, the clear-cut evidence you are unfairly asking for does not exist. That I wrote in my initial post as well. There are plenty of indicators though. If you are prepared to think logically instead of willfully engaging in mental acrobatics just to ignore the implications of those indicators in front of you, you'd see them. Why do you think there is a number of pretty unremarkable Esteghlal and Perspolis players in the TM squad? Why do you think Skocic has not managed to line up some of the half-decent friendlies CQ asked for, let alone fight for the facilities CQ has given us? These are all indicators he is less able to confront the federation than CQ, which is not even a surprise, but was to be expected given his status and prior experience. Actually, the onus is on you to show why, against all odds, Skocic would be less of a yes-man than CQ, because that would be the counterintuitive hypothesis.

[O-ZoNe]

Who, in his right mind, would argue that opinions are facts? Of course they are not. No one claimed so, you are building a straw man. What I did say though was that opinions are, in an ideal world, based on evidence. Perhaps yours aren't, but most people would agree that their opinions are not based on hypothetical conjunctions but rather real-world evidence.
Again, the clear-cut evidence you are unfairly asking for does not exist. That I wrote in my initial post as well. There are plenty of indicators though. If you are prepared to think logically instead of willfully engaging in mental acrobatics just to ignore the implications of those indicators in front of you, you'd see them. Why do you think there is a number of pretty unremarkable Esteghlal and Perspolis players in the TM squad? Why do you think Skocic has not managed to line up some of the half-decent friendlies CQ asked for, let alone fight for the facilities CQ has given us? These are all indicators he is less able to confront the federation than CQ, which is not even a surprise, but was to be expected given his status and prior experience. Actually, the onus is on you to show why, against all odds, Skocic would be less of a yes-man than CQ, because that would be the counterintuitive hypothesis.

Ok. Let me ask you something. CQ arranged for us to travel to S. Africa and play against Orlando Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs. Was this CQs master plan to have us play teams not even at IPL level? If we blame IFF for these friendlies then let's put forth the notion Skocic doesn't feel these opponents or maybe NZ are strong enough to test us so he is pushing for stronger friendlies. Who is right and who is wrong here. Your logic again is not truths. We are all speculating.

Now what if I told you I have written articles for soccer magazines published inside and outside of Iran...does this make me more of an expert and are my speculations more valid than others? (Rhetorical question). Stop muddying up the issues with baseless slander and conjecture. Doing this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to us fans to IFF...we need to be more rational and avoid hashiyeh. Thankfully Skocic is beyond falling to these traps.

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[Lorestani]

Ok. Let me ask you something. CQ arranged for us to travel to S. Africa and play against Orlando Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs. Was this CQs master plan to have us play teams not even at IPL level? If we blame IFF for these friendlies then let's put forth the notion Skocic doesn't feel these opponents or maybe NZ are strong enough to test us so he is pushing for stronger friendlies. Who is right and who is wrong here. Your logic again is not truths. We are all speculating.
Now what if I told you I have written articles for soccer magazines published inside and outside of Iran...does this make me more of an expert and are my speculations more valid than others? (Rhetorical question). Stop muddying up the issues with baseless slander and conjecture. Doing this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to us fans to IFF...we need to be more rational and avoid hashiyeh. Thankfully Skocic is beyond falling to these traps.
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Now that's interesting: to prove your point, you obviously had to resort to the worst friendlies that were arranged under CQ, conveniently overlooking the better ones (I never claim amazing, I said half-decent) against Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Chile, and Algeria. Really? Is that the "more rational" approach you are talking about? Heck, I am even willing to entertain your argument that Skocic is turning down the likes of NZ, but would you please provide some indicators for your argument just like I did? Isn't that how a civilized and "rational" debate should look? Once you share with me your indicators, you might even convince me of your point, who knows? But please be a bit less selective than with your recollection of CQ friendlies.

[tooleh khers]

It always amazes me how people ask for hard evidence whenever they are confronted with an argument they don't like. Like is anyone of your own opinions based on some smoking gun evidence that you have uncovered? If no, how come you resort to this high bar when people say things you don't like? Btw, you know what the evidence is in this particular case? Zero friendlies scheduled as of yet vs. CQ ripping the federation a new one every time they tried to obstruct his plans, with the tangible consequence of having some semi-decent friendlies in the run-up to the two world cups he led us to.

Cq made it a point not to play strong opposition. Now he is responsible for getting us decent friendlies?! literally the night is day and day is night with CQ fans.

[O-ZoNe]

Now that's interesting: to prove your point, you obviously had to resort to the worst friendlies that were arranged under CQ, conveniently overlooking the better ones (I never claim amazing, I said half-decent) against Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Chile, and Algeria. Really? Is that the "more rational" approach you are talking about? Heck, I am even willing to entertain your argument that Skocic is turning down the likes of NZ, but would you please provide some indicators for your argument just like I did? Isn't that how a civilized and "rational" debate should look? Once you share with me your indicators, you might even convince me of your point, who knows? But please be a bit less selective than with your recollection of CQ friendlies.

Let's discuss after Skocic has 8 years in charge. That would be fair and rationale since Skocic hasn't really had a chance yet to arrange or obtain decent friendlies.

You pointed to certain arguments and ignored others and I did the same. You demonstrated my point I was trying to make. Opinions, speculation, conjecture are not facts we can draw solid conclusions about.

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[Lorestani]

Cq made it a point not to play strong opposition. Now he is responsible for getting us decent friendlies?! literally the night is day and day is night with CQ fans.

The only day-and-night difference I can spot here is your changing views on CQ.

[Lorestani]

Let's discuss after Skocic has 8 years in charge. That would be fair and rationale since Skocic hasn't really had a chance yet to arrange or obtain decent friendlies.
You pointed to certain arguments and ignored others and I did the same. You demonstrated my point I was trying to make. Opinions, speculation, conjecture are not facts we can draw solid conclusions about.
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As someone so hung up on hard evidence, you have not produced a single shred of evidence for your favored thesis. You literally skewed the hell out of TM friendlies under CQ and now you are saying we did the same? Also, now we have to wait 8 years to be allowed to discuss Skocic? No, dude, try better next time.

[Roozbeh-G2006]

Ok. Let me ask you something. CQ arranged for us to travel to S. Africa and play against Orlando Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs. Was this CQs master plan to have us play teams not even at IPL level? If we blame IFF for these friendlies then let's put forth the notion Skocic doesn't feel these opponents or maybe NZ are strong enough to test us so he is pushing for stronger friendlies. Who is right and who is wrong here. Your logic again is not truths. We are all speculating.
Now what if I told you I have written articles for soccer magazines published inside and outside of Iran...does this make me more of an expert and are my speculations more valid than others? (Rhetorical question). Stop muddying up the issues with baseless slander and conjecture. Doing this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to us fans to IFF...we need to be more rational and avoid hashiyeh. Thankfully Skocic is beyond falling to these traps.
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Baba no matter how logical, factual and expertly you argue with blind followers they will continue believing their stories to be true. We achieved zilch under CQ, Columbia achieved zilch and so did Egypt. The best result he had as a head coach in his entire career was with Egypt and it was final of African cup of nations but that was with two of the best players in the world, a striker and a keeper and he lost the final to Senegal. I am sure anyone with a head coach stature would have achieved similar to CQ. Now CQ fans chill out. Skocic is not going anywhere according to the latest stance of the IFF.

[Taz]

It's true, many people were voting for Mohamed Qotb Abou Gabal Ali over frauds like Messi and Ronaldo for Ballon D'or during his superb spells at Smouha Sporting Club. And to think CQ could only get them to the final and losing it against a bunch of African nobodies in Senegal.

[O-ZoNe]

It's true, many people were voting for Mohamed Qotb Abou Gabal Ali over frauds like Messi and Ronaldo for Ballon D'or during his superb spells at Smouha Sporting Club. And to think CQ could only get them to the final and losing it against a bunch of African nobodies in Senegal.

I didn't know Mo Salah's full name was Mohamed Qotb Abou Gabal Ali [emoji6]

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[Farzadfarhangni]

Can someone please explain to me how both of these statements can be true:
- CQ put Iran on the map and everyone respects Iran because of CQ.
- Of course they think being in a group with Iran is great because nobody knows us.

Can someone please explain to me how both of these statements can be true:
- Skocic is getting results because of a great team that CQ put together and all these fantastic players that CQ develop. This is CQ's team!!!
- Japan has many high level midfielders while we have a dearth of midfielders, our midfield is slow and out of shape and have not had a deep lying play maker since Nekonam.

I can go on with others, but these two were so glaring...

I am genuinely confused.

baba jan, CQ was great. He had flaws too like any other coach but he did a lot of good for our soccer too. He is gone now and getting him back is like getting back together with your divorced wife/husband. Probably not a good idea the second time around.