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    Originally posted by koush22 View Post
    You are missing an important piece of context here.

    It is simple to say: "Oh kids who are hungry should be happy eating tree bark soup, every 12 year old boy scout has learned this from their camp leader!"

    The problem comes when the same kids have eaten fried chicken and burgers, and there is a friend chicken and burger restaurant right across the street while they are starving.

    In other words, the players on this team HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED and CREDIT A LOT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT to a "good coach". You cannot bring tree bark soup skocic to the same group and ask them to just march towards the potentially greatest embarrassment in their career at WC 2022.
    Players in England, USA and Wales have not?

    Comment


      Originally posted by diz View Post
      Lol, CQ got us 4 points at WC 2018 (most ever by TM). But sure, he's playing to draw or lose.
      If you can keep you head high on an own goal to get credited for a win then more power to you.

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        You're right about the culture. It's just that the culture isn't going to change four months before the WC. If half the team doesn't respect the coach and the leadership he has cultivated, you cannot just axe them being your best players from the squad. A large unit of unhappy players do not perform well, and at the end of the day, the coach must go in those situations

        I supported Sko during the Taremi situation but now the ship has sailed. Too many players are unsatisfied


        Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
        Is that a Skocic problem or a problem with our players' (or one player in particular)? I think any u12 team knows to always respect and follow coach's advice. Pretty established concept in professional Football or pretty much any team sport. This is a pretty established concept except in Iran, some arab countries and some weak African countries. We have so many professional players in Europe and unfortunately, those are the players that have gotten a big ego and think they should run the show. Same thing in 2006. Our big players with European experience where the ones dividing our locker room. The players inside Iran understand this concept better.

        Look at USA, England or even Wales. They all have weak coaches. We don't see any mutiny in their camps.

        The solution is not to bring an established coach with big resume. The solution is to establish this concept within our soccer. Otherwise, this sh*t show will repeat again and again. Having a peaceful team where everyone knows their roles will improve our results so much, but we keep handicapping ourselves.

        Comment


          Originally posted by shahin2000 View Post
          If you can keep you head high on an own goal to get credited for a win then more power to you.
          Yup, sure can.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
            Players in England, USA and Wales have not?
            No? Players in England, USA and Wales all come from a variety of local, well funded, youth teams. There is ACTUAL infrastructure that gets them where they end up. On each of those teams, pretty much none of them feel a special allegiance to one single coach. Furthermore, they are exposed to multiple world class coaches throughout their careers in their pro leagues.

            Whereas in TM, about 50% of the players feel a special allegiance to CQ for what he did for both them personally, and the national team as a whole. Their uncle's cousin's brother's wife's Coach from their youth leagues do not even enter their minds when comparing to a world class coach.

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              After the 2014 & 2018 WC whenever i speak to anyone who follows football that i am iranian they recall irans game's at the WC and show admiration of irans grit, tenacity and overall good football. That itself says a lot even when iran didnt make it out of the group.

              With a good coach, united team and proper preparation we can correct that & make history this time. I am growing in confidence now.

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                Originally posted by DR Strangemoosh View Post
                Or people that consider the totality of circumstances and then proceed to make statements or decisions that are well thought out. But cool gif!

                For the record, I supported Skocic until the last two friendlies + the team's loss of faith in him.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by koush22 View Post
                  No? Players in England, USA and Wales all come from a variety of local, well funded, youth teams. There is ACTUAL infrastructure that gets them where they end up. On each of those teams, pretty much none of them feel a special allegiance to one single coach. Furthermore, they are exposed to multiple world class coaches throughout their careers in their pro leagues.

                  Whereas in TM, about 50% of the players feel a special allegiance to CQ for what he did for both them personally, and the national team as a whole. Their uncle's cousin's brother's wife's Coach from their youth leagues do not even enter their minds when comparing to a world class coach.
                  Dude, it is precisely the Iranian players that have played in Europe under many good coaches in well funded clubs that are making the trouble. Not the players that have played in Iran only. Anyways...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Omids View Post
                    After the 2014 & 2018 WC whenever i speak to anyone who follows football that i am iranian they recall irans game's at the WC and show admiration of irans grit, tenacity and overall good football. That itself says a lot even when iran didnt make it out of the group.
                    Exactly, where did this myth come from that people looked down on our team's performance? Apart from one thick-as-bricks english pundit, every single person I spoke to was impressed with our team. People still mention Queiroz's TM to me, folk who only can name 2-3 Iranian footballers.

                    We played and achieved well beyond the sum of our parts, in every single game.

                    Almost all our 2014 squad was built from new after the wilderness years, with our crop taken from the local leagues and Queiroz getting the likes of Ashkan and Gucci to choose Iran over Germany or Netherlands to help us out before that world cup.
                    2006 we had so many players at their peak, this was our golden generation, we had players who didn't get the development they deserved because they had so many stars ahead of them. But we had regulars in the Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A who had years of experience for club and country.

                    Just focusing in this post on one topic which anti-CQ brankoholics(especially on IRIB and other islamic republic media) keep mentioning: 3-1 loss against Bosnia, with a selective memory loss of 3-1 loss against Mexico in 2006.

                    Bosnia had a backline four who were Bundesliga starters, had a Pjanic who was in the serie A team of the season, Lulic who had his best of 10 seasons at Lazio, Ibisevic who had been one of the best goal scorers in bundesliga with 24 goals in 2013 season and 14 in 2014 for Stuttgart, Sahilovic who was Hoffenheim's player of the year (11 goals as midfielder) and a Djeko who scored almost 30 goals for Manchester city. It was the best single year for so many of their players, just at the right moment for them before their world cup debut.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61sKiZaTeKs

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmndHBx0Gw0

                    So many of the players in that Bosnia team had their best season for their clubs within 2013-2014 and the spine of the team wasn't weaker than any other countries in that world cup.

                    3-1 against Bosnia was a better result than 3-1 against Mexico with our best ever team. Who did Mexico have? Omar Bravo...?

                    Some people constantly criticise Iran's results against south african club teams (winning and drawing against orlando pirates and beating kaiser chiefs) in 2014, whilst forgetting that we lost against QPR's C-team 3-0 in 2005, or even with a great coach lost to AS Roma's B-team 7-1 in 1998. The agenda is so obvious...

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Hosseini View Post
                      You're right about the culture. It's just that the culture isn't going to change four months before the WC. If half the team doesn't respect the coach and the leadership he has cultivated, you cannot just axe them being your best players from the squad. A large unit of unhappy players do not perform well, and at the end of the day, the coach must go in those situations

                      I supported Sko during the Taremi situation but now the ship has sailed. Too many players are unsatisfied
                      I agree that culture is not going to change in four months before WC. After Taremi going going to govt and requesting a coaching change, and then Sardar taking the other side, Skocic's was a sitting duck. But the problem is that now, there are no go ways out.... I am still hopeful.

                      I was just pointing out that we have this cultural issue and we have it worse with players who are suppose to learn from their experiences in Europe.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
                        Dude, it is precisely the Iranian players that have played in Europe under many good coaches in well funded clubs that are making the trouble. Not the players that have played in Iran only. Anyways...
                        Let me restate it in this way: The players in Wales, USA and England all have had exposure to multiple decent coaches. To them a coach is a coach is a coach. Furthermore, they understand that coaches alone are not really that important in footballing success. They also credit their youth facilities and clubs and careers.

                        The Iranian group of players has been exposed to a single coach of CQ's caliber, and they credit their early success to their individual talent + CQ's influence. To them, "FAGHAD CQ". There is little else for them to attribute their talents to in the Iranian soccer system.

                        In other words, it is correct that this is as a result of culture differences in the sport in each country. However, with the current crop of players in TM, there is no hope in altering what they credit their success to. Any cultural changes would have to start at the youth level, through the "industrialization" of football (similar to Germany in 1990-2008).

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                          Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
                          Dude, it is precisely the Iranian players that have played in Europe under many good coaches in well funded clubs that are making the trouble. Not the players that have played in Iran only. Anyways...
                          One more thing: this is precisely my point. The players that are exposed to the European ways of soccer will become even more upset. They say to themselves: we can't have any of this other stuff, why not at least a good coach? In this sense, experiencing "luxury" makes them more upset at their own "poverty".

                          The England, Wales and USA players recognize that the coach is a very small part of the game because their soccer has industrialized.

                          Kinda like in a battle field. You could say the Iranian youth system evokes a sense of needing a "Rostam" general to lead the charge. The English youth system is like having 16 different tanks, mortars, artillery etc on the field. The individual members of the leadership squad become less important.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by koush22 View Post
                            One more thing: this is precisely my point. The players that are exposed to the European ways of soccer will become even more upset. They say to themselves: we can't have any of this other stuff, why not at least a good coach? In this sense, experiencing "luxury" makes them more upset at their own "poverty".

                            The England, Wales and USA players recognize that the coach is a very small part of the game because their soccer has industrialized.
                            I can't agree with the bold above. Basically, you are saying that players are so good and well trained that coach plays a very very small role in team's success. I think in these industrialized soccer nations, they know that every little bit helps and, of course a good coach helps too, it is just that the players have learned that it is not their job to influence the coach evaluation and selection and stay out of that decision.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Farzadfarhangni View Post
                              I can't agree with the bold above. Basically, you are saying that players are so good and well trained that coach plays a very very small role in team's success. I think in these industrialized soccer nations, they know that every little bit helps and, of course a good coach helps too, it is just that the players have learned that it is not their job to influence the coach evaluation and selection and stay out of that decision.
                              It is not so much that the players are soooooo well trained that they don't care about their coach, but rather that they have 12 other things they can focus on. Also, the reason they understand that they cannot comment on the coach is the systemization and bureaucracy of their soccer industries. But again, this starts at the youth level.

                              I think we are largely in agreement, just saying the same thing differently.


                              Kinda like in a battle field. You could say the Iranian youth system evokes a sense of needing a "Rostam" general to lead the charge. The English youth system is like having 16 different tanks, mortars, artillery etc on the field. The individual members of the leadership squad become less important.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by koush22 View Post
                                It is not so much that the players are soooooo well trained that they don't care about their coach, but rather that they have 12 other things they can focus on. Also, the reason they understand that they cannot comment on the coach is the systemization and bureaucracy of their soccer industries. But again, this starts at the youth level.

                                I think we are largely in agreement, just saying the same thing differently.


                                Kinda like in a battle field. You could say the Iranian youth system evokes a sense of needing a "Rostam" general to lead the charge. The English youth system is like having 16 different tanks, mortars, artillery etc on the field. The individual members of the leadership squad become less important.
                                You are saying that Taremi wants CQ because of all that CQ has done for him, for our soccer, etc... I am saying that Taremi is wrong for meddling in coaching evaluation and decisions. I am also pointing out that our European players, instead of learning what the role of a player is in a soccer team, they let their experience and success go to their head and create an environment that damages the team. And I give 2006 (Karimi, Dayi, Kia) and 2022 (Azmoun, Taremi) as examples.

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