Iverson staying in philly

[mf_doom]

Jason Kidd is a premier rebounder? Really? Hes not even in the top 40.
And talking about team success, compare the 2 teams. James has an All-Star center on his team and a lot of other really good players. The last time iverson had a decent center? The sixers went to the NBA finals and were the first team to beat the lakers in like 25 games in that finals series. Who else was on that team? George Lynch, Matt Geiger, Tyrone Hill; all players that are REALLY BAD. There was only one other decent player on that team, the center, motumbo (even then he was past his prime). Other than that 1 year, Iverson has never had ANYONE that was good on his team, nobody that is even as good as the three other best players on the Caveliers THIS SEASON; Illgauskas, Gooden, and flip murray. Despite this, about a month before the end of the season, Philly was only 2 games behind cleveland, but then Iverson got injured, missed 5 games, and they totally fell apart at that point.
And Iverson has garbage assists!?!?!? Are you blind? Have you seen all the all they ally-oops and no look passes he makes? LEBRON didnt even make the top 10 assists list. Iverson did, look at #7. (amir, while you are there, maybe you can check out the sixers beating the jazz in the summer league)
A better arguement can be made for dwayne wade

1) Jason Kidd was 18th last year in def. rebounding. He had the 17th most rebounds. Last time I checked 18 and 17 are in between 1 and 40 right?
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/index.html

2) Good players? Hahahahahah. Wow u just made my day. I have a hunch that you are actually Rob Babc o c k in disguise; seeing as your “knowledge” in basketball is just so profound:

Larry Hughes: Didn’t gell with the team at all. His scoring average dropped more than 6 points. He played in only 36 games!!! He also took a huge chunk out of the cap.

Flip Murray: One of the dumbest players out there. His like a poormans vince carter. Decides to shoot fade away 3 pointers when he is allowed inside the paint. Pretty sure lebron james would’ve preferred the ball boy over him. He signed a deal with the pistons.

Ilgauskas: Archetype European stiff. Doesn’t rebound when it matters. Can’t play defence even if he was facing muggsy bogues. Takes a gigantic chunk out of the cap. Had his best year was pre-lebron and that’s because there was no one else on the team who wanted to shoot the ball. Just an awful awful player.

Gooden: One of the bad apples of the 02 draft (along with such great players like dunleavy jr.) He is considered by many people a mini bust. Great things were expected of him when he was drafted 4th. Sadly he hasn’t done anything to deserve the hype. Last year was no different as he had moments of great brilliance and moments of sheer stupidity. An average player at best. He would be the guy who you would want being the 9 or 10th man.

I could go one but im kinda tired and there are many more things to discuss.

Now would like to take alook at the 76ers team?

Iguadola: A ferociously athletic wing man who can blaze past people with his speed and has great hops. Sound defensively and equipeed with a few nice inside moves he is definitely a future allstar if he finds himself a good midrange shot.

Dalembert: In an era where centres who understand shotblocking seem like a fairytale, Philadelphia has this gem of a defensive giant who is afraid of few inside men. With a huge wingspan and pretty good athletic ability he is definitely a key part of the 76ers. He just has to improve his offensive game.

Webber: Yes he can be whiny…Yes he has had his problems with injuries…And yes he has bounced around the league for a while now. HOWEVER name me One person on the cav’s who has as much playoff experience? Who (excluding lebron for the next few) has as inside moves as him? Who can spread the ball around as well as him? Who can take on a lot of various players without hesitation? I know I cant. Although damon jones comes close .


As you can see the Cleveland team is full of players that most people wouldn’t pick for a pick up on the street nevermind an nba team. While 76ers have 3 good/great players plus a hall of famer. Simple fact of the matter is that 76ers just don’t have that team attitude. I saw at least 10 of their games. It looked more as if the teammates were fighting for their own shot. It wasn’t a pretty sight. Iverson doesn’t know how to control his teams. He doesn’t understand true leadership. Lebron has shown great potential. With a team full of average/good players he took them to the eastern semi finals. And BTW the year that Iverson went to the finals, the east was awful. They were severly outclassed by the west. Since then the East has improved and the 76ers have been left in the dust.

Finally

By garbage I don’t mean how nice the pass looked. If nba scouts graded passes on the how cool they were, the streetballers of new york would be owning the league. They scouts care about accuracy, timing, and effect on teammates. A good passer (i.e. Stockton, kidd) gives assists that gives everyone confidence and gets everyone into a groove. They start racking them up because they start controlling the game. They use everyones strengths to the teams advantage. Bad passers (i.e. marbury, IVERSON) have no idea and frankly don’t care about the other team mates groove. They just want sweet behind the back passes and alley oops. In the end the good passers shall always win.

Anyways im done. Now that ive put this sad issue to bed NYC (aka Rob Bab c o k) I can now finally get some sleep.

[Amir H F]

mf doom thank you for the great post, but trust me man I have gone over stuff like this in the "NBA Thread" OVER and OVER again with him...he doesnt understand, he will maintain his thought regardless.

[Darvish11]

1) Jason Kidd was 18th last year in def. rebounding. He had the 17th most rebounds. Last time I checked 18 and 17 are in between 1 and 40 right?
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/index.html

"Last time I checked 18 and 17 are in between 1 and 40 right?"
yes, you are correct, except Jason Kidd was 18th in rebounds IN THE PLAYOFFS. In the regular season, he was 41st. 41 isnt between 1 and 40, is it?
It seems that you know a lot about cleveland, i have seen a few cavelier games, like you have seen a few sixers games. I saw flip murray in seattle, he was great, i saw gooden in orlando, he was really good. Illgauskas is an all star center. AN ALL STAR. And larry hughes, i saw a lot of him when he was with washington and he had like 23 points a game, thats why i say he's good. You didnt even mention damon jones, one of the most consistent 3 point shooters and best role players imo in the game. But hey, you are the cavelier expert and i am not, so im wrong.
But those comments about the sixers, OOOOOOMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGG. You saw about ten games, i saw about 50. The year before that, I saw even more. I am what you call a sixers FANATIC. Those comments that you made on the sixers players were RETARDED. There is no other word for it. Iguodala, he is a great dunker, i love this guy, i almost cried when he got robbed in the dunk contest. But he cant blaze ANYONE to the basket, hes fast, but he has no handles, and he is scared. He doesnt take the open shot. He has the least shot attempts among any nba starter. And dont give me that :bs: about "iverson doesnt pass", he has PLENTY of opportunites but he doesnt take them.
You called Dalembert A GEM OF A DEFENSIVE GIANT. Were you ****ing blindfolded when you saw these 10 sixer games!?!?! HE SUCKS! He has the worst positioning of any center i have ever seen. Sometimes my jaw just drops after I see him stare at a guy driving to the lane for a layup or dunk. He has the worst hands of any basketball player ive seen (he drops at least 3 balls a game) and he has a horrible shot, and he cant make a layup. He averages 3 shots made a game, and 2.5 of them are probably dunks. He has shot less than 25% on many occasions. THIS IS A CENTER WHO NEVER SHOOTS OUTSIDE THE KEY. Physically, yes he is good, tall, long, but he is really bad at basketball.
Webber: All those things were true maybe 5 years ago. Now he is one of the worst defensive players in the NBA and one of the slowest players in the NBA. His vision is wasted because the only guy on the sixers who can make an open shot is iverson so they cant capitalize on that. And that is ALL he has now, vision. Watching him trying to make a move is comical because he is so slow. He is a waste of space.
Cleveland bench (Hughes) > Sixer Bench (Randolph)
Illgauskas > Dalembert
Gooden > Webber
Murray > Iguodala
Jones > Korver

JAMES < IVERSON


And about passing, an assist is mostly in the hands of your teammate, not you. Its a lot harder to get assists when you have teammates like korver, dalembert or webber who could go 1 for 11 on any given night (and they all have had numbers similar to that on numerous occasions, i think even iguodala once) than teammates who can actually make a shot and give you an assist. Getting 8 assists with a team like that sounds like a pretty good passer to me.

[mf_doom]

"Last time I checked 18 and 17 are in between 1 and 40 right?"
yes, you are correct, except Jason Kidd was 18th in rebounds IN THE PLAYOFFS. In the regular season, he was 41st. 41 isnt between 1 and 40, is it?
Fine your right im truly sorry. He is one spot out of the top forty as he missed out by 0.1 EFFING REBOUNDS. But you are right but, ask any nba pro about the best rebounding guard, and if they don’t tell you Jason kidd then they are retarded. Btw last time I checked you do need to be pretty good at rebounding when you want to be on the all time triple double list.

It seems that you know a lot about cleveland, i have seen a few cavelier games, like you have seen a few sixers games. I saw flip murray in seattle, he was great, i saw gooden in orlando, he was really good. Illgauskas is an all star center. AN ALL STAR. And larry hughes, i saw a lot of him when he was with washington and he had like 23 points a game, thats why i say he's good. You didnt even mention damon jones, one of the most consistent 3 point shooters and best role players imo in the game. But hey, you are the cavelier expert and i am not, so im wrong.

OMG an ALLSTAR? QUICK SOMEONE GET THAT MVP TROPHY OFF NASH. ILGUASKAS IS THE DESERVED WINNER. WOW HOW DID I MISS THAT?

Wait I know..Its because he was a RESERVE centre. He got to be an allstar during the time that there was not ONE GOOD centre in the entire eastern conference (with the exception of Ben Wallace), congrats you proved that Ilgauskas is a better player than the likes of than the likes of ZACH PUCHILIA. You are truly a NBA genius.

And key words that YOU typed. You saw murray in SEATTLE. You saw gooden in ORLANDO where he got a lot of playing time and was alright, nothing special. Trust me they weren’t even half the players they were before.

But those comments about the sixers, OOOOOOMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGG. You saw about ten games, i saw about 50. The year before that, I saw even more. I am what you call a sixers FANATIC. Those comments that you made on the sixers players were RETARDED. There is no other word for it. Iguodala, he is a great dunker, i love this guy, i almost cried when he got robbed in the dunk contest. But he cant blaze ANYONE to the basket, hes fast, but he has no handles, and he is scared. He doesnt take the open shot. He has the least shot attempts among any nba starter. And dont give me that :bs: about "iverson doesnt pass", he has PLENTY of opportunites but he doesnt take them.


First off I said “at least”. Meaning it was around probly 15. You have seen 50. But knowledge in basketball is a major factor and seeing as you have well…not a lot of it; you could’ve have seen 3000 games for all I could care.

Second yes he is a great dunker. You also forgot he is a BEAST on defence. Every single coach raves about his defensive abilities. And yes he isn’t going to win the skills competition. But I never said he was going to. But in all those games I saw, every fast break, he broke loose from the pack. He is considered in the top 10 of fast nba players. You cannot argue that. And I did mention his problems with the shot. All young players have that. They have to work on it.

Thirdly, You proved my point Robbie. He does have plenty of oppurtonities. But he doenst take them. That’s what separates from a winner and from a guy who spends his life doing nothing but winning some meager scoring titles (i.e. George gervin in the 70’s, T-mac now). If Iverson truly wanted to win he would start incorporating his teammates in. Instead he makes them feel like there part of the audience. Read up on some basketball greats. They all went through phases like this. Tiny nate Archibald played like this for most of his life, he didn’t do shit. Then he actually started thinking about the team as a whole and guess what? He won a ****ing championship. Julius erving, during the time when he made all those highlight reel dunks he didn’t do jack in the playoffs. Even when he started getting some stars his team (moses malone, Maurice cheeks) he still had trouble incorporating his teammates. The first few years the team kept on being blocked out of the championship by numerous teams. There were rumors of Malone wanting a trade. When Erving heard of this he soon looked up and saw what was happening. He was going to retire without a championship. Soon he changed his game. He stopped trying to force it. He started spreading the ball. Moses got more shots. Maurice even got more shots. Guess what? They won a ****ing championship. Something Iverson will never do if he doesn’t change his mentality.

Now I bet your going to tell me how 76ers don’t have dr. j and a moses malone. Well look at the bucks champ team. They had only two good players. One was an over the hill, running on fumes oscar Robertson and the young future hall of famer kareem abdul jabber. A Jabbar who was an awful defensive player (at the beginning of his career i mean). Guess what? THEY WON A FU K ING CHAMPIONSHIP.

You called Dalembert A GEM OF A DEFENSIVE GIANT. Were you ****ing blindfolded when you saw these 10 sixer games!?!?! HE SUCKS! He has the worst positioning of any center i have ever seen. Sometimes my jaw just drops after I see him stare at a guy driving to the lane for a layup or dunk. He has the worst hands of any basketball player ive seen (he drops at least 3 balls a game) and he has a horrible shot, and he cant make a layup. He averages 3 shots made a game, and 2.5 of them are probably dunks. He has shot less than 25% on many occasions. THIS IS A CENTER WHO NEVER SHOOTS OUTSIDE THE KEY. Physically, yes he is good, tall, long, but he is really bad at basketball.

Wow nyc have you ever played basketball? Wait no…don’t answer that. I really don’t want you to embarrass yourself than you already have. I said he was a bad offensive player. Don’t act like you have told me something new. I never mentioned him as an offensive force. I stated that he is a defensive force. Now you disagree with me. You tell me his a very bad defensive palyer. So can you please tell me Rob, how can a such a bad defensive player be:

6th in blocking in the REGULAR SEASON

and average 8.2 rebounds per game?


Webber: All those things were true maybe 5 years ago. Now he is one of the worst defensive players in the NBA and one of the slowest players in the NBA. His vision is wasted because the only guy on the sixers who can make an open shot is iverson so they cant capitalize on that. And that is ALL he has now, vision. Watching him trying to make a move is comical because he is so slow. He is a waste of space.

Your right he is awful. That’s why he is

8th in rebounding in the REGULAR SEASON

10th in defensive rebounding

and in the top 20 for offensive rebounding.

And your right about the waste of space. I’m sure Kevin Ollie would do a much nicer job .

Definitely what slow players are good at. Getting a lot of rebounds. You are correct. And for vision. And you are right he is a waste of space. That’s why he was in the top 20 OF TOP EFFIECIENT PLAYERS. Yeah you are right. The cavs own the top 15 spots so that …wait..no they don’t…they only have one player..LEBRON JAMES..

Cleveland bench (Hughes) > Sixer Bench (Randolph)
Illgauskas > Dalembert
Gooden > Webber
Murray > Iguodala
Jones > Korver


Wow first you say ur were wrong then you go and do this? Tsk tsk.

Lets see Hughes played in 36 GAMES IN TOTAL. I doubt you can count him as a plus seeing as he was out for the majority of the season. So wrong there.

Gooden over Webber? Ahahahahah man Bab**** please come back to Toronto. We need some good comedians here. Ahahah. Lets see what gooden has done in his nba career.

Drafted 4th in a weak draft…

Then…um….

Lets see….well he averaged over 10 points…OOOOOH WOW im sure isiah Thomas is clammering to sign him to a 45 million dollar contract…

Lets see what webber has done

Drafted first overall
Rookie of the year

5 time all nba team (2x first, 2x second, 1x third)

is a five time allstar ( I know you think that’s really important)

has played in 64 playoff games, averaged 21 points 4 assists and 9 rebounds. Was one game away from the playoffs before it was stolen away by those pathetic refs.

Yeah you are right. Gooden definilty takes the cake here.

Murray over iguadola? lets see....

guy who is like a crappier version of vince carter. A guy who got benched 80% of the time. is much better than a guy who can:
play insanely good defence
a great athelete
with pretty good inside moves
with plenty of potential to be an allstar....yeah i can definitly understand your point of view..

damon jones over korver?

jones: crap stats. Did nothing and i mean nothing for the team. Another awful signing by the cavs. Didnt deliver on anything he was suppose to (i.e. be a good point guard, light it up from the three point range)

korver: one of the best 3 point shooters, therefore can spread open the defence. Alrite defensive ability. A good role player.

again man. I can definitly see it your way.


JAMES < IVERSON

not even gonna bother to touch that one…Yeesh..

And about passing, an assist is mostly in the hands of your teammate, not you. Its a lot harder to get assists when you have teammates like korver, dalembert or webber who could go 1 for 11 on any given night (and they all have had numbers similar to that on numerous occasions, i think even iguodala once) than teammates who can actually make a shot and give you an assist. Getting 8 assists with a team like that sounds like a pretty good passer to me.

Most basketball players can go for those types of stats. Btw I doubt dalembert has stats like that because as you mentioned, he doesn’t attempt many shots. Howevre Korver is considered one of the best shooters in the league. Check out his nba profile if you don’t believe me. And Webber can still light it up as hard as it might be for you to believe that. Stop making excuses and start facing the facts. Iverson is stephon marbury but with a better shot. That’s it. He has that same crappy work ethic. He has that “me first” mentality. And he is simply never going to win. He is like a pete mavarich of our time. Entertaining but never a truly good player.

Oh and I have no effing clue why your all over damon jones. The guy averaged 7 points a game plus 2 assists. Yeah your definilty right. Im sure if Iverson had him on his team, the sixers would be back in the playoffs.

And finally you forgot to answer my questions concerning webber and the cavs. If you’ve forgotten I can repeat them:

name me One person on the cav’s who has as much playoff experience? Who (excluding lebron for the next few) has as inside moves as him? Who can spread the ball around as well as him? Who can take on a lot of various players without hesitation?

Rob Bab**** (aka nyc) please come back. We in Toronto truly miss you.

[Darvish11]

all those accomplishments and stuff were from before webbers injury. Now he sucks. Everyone on the cavs has better moves than him now. His experience is irrelevent. Ali Daei has a lot of experience, should he be starting in TM? No.

Philadelphia at there best is an amazing team. But they are extremely Inconsistent. they are never at there best. The only consistent one is iverson.

The fact of the matter is that iverson, AS OF NOW, has better numbers in his career, more accomplishments in his career, and is a better player.

And why the **** are you making this personal you piece of shit? Rob Bab**** this Bab**** that; i havent said one negative thing towards you, asshole, i stuck to the arguement. But if you want to be a little ***** and talk shit to me, go ahead. Thank you for taking part in this discussion with me, now go **** yourself.

[Amir H F]

who's Rob Babcokk anyway?

[Darvish11]

who's Rob Babcokk anyway?

the former gm or owner or something of the raptors, apparently hes stupid

[mf_doom]

all those accomplishments and stuff were from before webbers injury. Now he sucks. Everyone on the cavs has better moves than him now. His experience is irrelevent. Ali Daei has a lot of experience, should he be starting in TM? No.
Philadelphia at there best is an amazing team. But they are extremely Inconsistent. they are never at there best. The only consistent one is iverson.
The fact of the matter is that iverson, AS OF NOW, has better numbers in his career, more accomplishments in his career, and is a better player.
And why the **** are you making this personal you piece of shit? Rob Bab**** this Bab**** that; i havent said one negative thing towards you, asshole, i stuck to the arguement. But if you want to be a little ***** and talk shit to me, go ahead. Thank you for taking part in this discussion with me, now go **** yourself.

were is yourproof? Again just stupid statements.

man honestly, the more i read of your posts the more i think your a 12 year old. I call you rob bab co k because you have the same amount of basketball knowledge. You make arguements with little facts and alot of heresay. Seriosly kid, you back to your corner and play your Ps2 nonstop. Im sure thats the closest you have ever come to playing actual basketball.

Amir, Rob Bab**** is considered one of the worst gm in the history o f the game. He is the one that sent Vince carter to Nj for absolutely nothing. He is also the one that drafted Rafeul araujo with the 8th pick.

[milad]

were is yourproof? Again just stupid statements.
man honestly, the more i read of your posts the more i think your a 12 year old. I call you rob bab co k because you have the same amount of basketball knowledge. You make arguements with little facts and alot of heresay. Seriosly kid, you back to your corner and play your Ps2 nonstop. Im sure thats the closest you have ever come to playing actual basketball.
Amir, Rob Bab**** is considered one of the worst gm in the history o f the game. He is the one that sent Vince carter to Nj for absolutely nothing. He is also the one that drafted Rafeul araujo with the 8th pick.

are you crazy! eric williams is one of the best players in the game!

[Amir H F]

were is yourproof? Again just stupid statements.
man honestly, the more i read of your posts the more i think your a 12 year old. I call you rob bab co k because you have the same amount of basketball knowledge. You make arguements with little facts and alot of heresay. Seriosly kid, you back to your corner and play your Ps2 nonstop. Im sure thats the closest you have ever come to playing actual basketball.
Amir, Rob Bab**** is considered one of the worst gm in the history o f the game. He is the one that sent Vince carter to Nj for absolutely nothing. He is also the one that drafted Rafeul araujo with the 8th pick.

Damn Babcokk was a joke then! and Araujo is now here in Utah, we got him for basically nothing and he is our 3rd string center. by the way didnt babcokk draft Chris Bosh though?

[Darvish11]

were is yourproof? Again just stupid statements.

my proof is in the statistics you dumb ****, you are the one without any proof.

[mf_doom]

Damn Babcokk was a joke then! and Araujo is now here in Utah, we got him for basically nothing and he is our 3rd string center. by the way didnt babcokk draft Chris Bosh though?

i dunno i though grunwald drafted him not sure. Btw drafting Bosh wasnt exactly a stroke of genius. If he hadnt drafted Bosh i would have killed him myself.

[mf_doom]

my proof is in the statistics you dumb ****, you are the one without any proof.

things that i did in my posts:

-completely take away ur ilgauskas all star arguement, he was a RESERVE allstar during the years the east had 1 goood center (wallace).
-show you that all of ur ideas behind murray, hughes and gooden where when they were playing for other teams
-give u numerous instances in the past where two superstars have come together and won an nba championship (or at least do well)
-completely negate ur arguemnts for dalembert and Webber USING STATISTICS (something you didnt do ONCE in ur arguments other than the kidd part where i conceded)
-And completely obliterated your argument on how the cavs bench is better than the 76ers bench; hughes is good? He played 36 :bs:
-pretty much summed up the assists argument with the statement "Iversonis stephon marbury but with a better shot." thats the only reason he is this succesful. But his lack of teamwork, work ethic will guarantee him he will do nothing worthwhile (other than win that one MVP trophy in that abysmal season).

things you did in your posts:

-Just reiterate your OPINIONS over and over again in insanely obnoxious ways.
-act like a 9 year old
- try to make fun of me but fail miserably