I hate Europeans .!!!

[zereshk-ali]

I would like to add to this observation, ...
Martin jan, I know, that racism exit every where, I know that there very good , nice people in europe, I know that Black, latinos, middle easternes in USA are also discriminated against, and I also know we iranians also are racists , and do not like, Arabs and afgans etc......
But the case with europe is different....
Europeans are intelectual racists, and thats make them the worst.
The issue of france up raising was not a simple issue....No place in the world, regular people ask thier governements to kick out the forigners more than Europe, I go to hamburg germany every year ( for my job )......they are rediculus....and I just do not know how you guys can take it.I know , in a way, I may be insulting those of us iranians who live in Europe, but it is what it is.....not only Europeans are racists, but also the equal uppertunity,that exist in USA,does not exist in Europe,
I USA, some of us, make money by takeing americans to curt.
If one thing could be said against americans,is that they are naive, but Europeans are not naive, they just flat racists...they look at us, turkish people, blacks, muslems,etc as low being and waist of flesh.....it is so systematic, if some one argues, they tell you to be patient, as if it is norm, but in USA, they say take thier ass to court.
You are free, in my opinion, when you feel free !!, we in USA, would never do something like France....the reason terorism against USA, has always been less inside the USA ( not imported terorism ), is because people in general are not intimidated.

Well, actually intellectual people are far less likely to be racists. Those that are educated usually understand better. Therefore I contend your intellectual racist comment.

Ignorance and hatred breeds racism. As they say in France "La haine attire la haine". London, which is the most multi-cultural, ethnically diverse city in the world still has plenty of racists.

In the U.S. where I would say on the whole people are more ignorant to world issues the problem is, if anything, worse. Because they have no idea as to what is going on outside their country they have nothing to benchmark their ignorant and racist president's actions.

Look at Bush's response to the New Orleans situation for example. The fact that he did not have a passport until he was president or that he thought that Nigeria was a continent is indicative of a very dangerous "U.S. is the world" mentality.

As for the hatred part, I would suggest that you are assuming the problem is worse in Europe partly because there is less segregation of minorities than in the U.S. There is significantly less ghetto-isation of minorities in Europe as you see in places such as New Orleans, downtown Washington & Philadelphia, the Bronx and South Central L.A.

When there is a combination of ignorance, poverty and hatred the end product is usually racism. This is partly why there is such friction amongst people in poorer communities in Europe. In the U.S. I would contend that in places like South Central there is less friction because it is predominantly a black and latino neighbourhood and when trouble does arise it is as big a problem if not more (as in the L.A. riots).

[zereshk-ali]

Especially when I see how Americans stand to symbols of nationalism and talk about other countries, I must say there is a much more healthy spirit in Europe, at least Germany and Austria. Here it is well known what happens if you get an overdose of nationalism, which I don't think of Americans, especially when I see how big sports events are made to big events of nationalism with flags, anthems, military etc. or films where they always praise the nations.

But Americans really don't have a sense of this.

I mean, indoctrinating kids from primary school in pledging allegiance to the flag every morning and they don't see this is where they are going wrong!

It creates an unquestioning outlook on their governments actions similar to that of totalitarian regimes and leads to their people trading humanity for patriotism.

For a lot of Americans it's considered unpatriotic to question a government's actions! Goebbels would have been proud of reaching that status quo!

[Amirza]

Again -
You want to measure Racism in a society - look at their "Education" and "Laws". Personal observation

American kids are "educated" not to be racist.
American Laws are full of non-discrimination "laws". American business community has "laws" in support of minorities.
Is that the case in Europe ?

[Martin-Reza]

But Americans really don't have a sense of this.
I mean, indoctrinating kids from primary school in pledging allegiance to the flag every morning and they don't see this is where they are going wrong!
It creates an unquestioning outlook on their governments actions similar to that of totalitarian regimes and leads to their people trading humanity for patriotism.
For a lot of Americans it's considered unpatriotic to question a government's actions! Goebbels would have been proud of reaching that status quo!

Exactly, they might be more sensitive in other aspects, but this is sth I noticed and which is slightly worrying too.

Again -
You want to measure Racism in a society - look at their "Education" and "Laws". Personal observation
American kids are "educated" not to be racist.
American Laws are full of non-discrimination "laws". American business community has "laws" in support of minorities.
Is that the case in Europe ?

Yes, but the Nazi era, integration and racism is a very central matter in Austrian education for example. As already mentioned, some laws are even stricter. It's even exaggerated in some points in my opinion, for example every critisizm against Israel is labeled antisemitic and not tolerated. So although I generally agree with what you say, I can assure you fighting against racism is a very central matter in education and legislation in Europe.

[Poeja_punani]

There are racisists everywere man... In the USA a black person has 4 times more chance to get the deadpenalty and there is also a KKK, In Europe their are some followers of Hitler and Mussolini(Neo-Nazis), in Iran they discrimante Afghanish people etc.

[zzgloo]

Please, lets not change this very important issue to the difference between USA and Europe.....................
South africans used to be racists,
Jews in general are also racist ( They say they are chosen )
Americans are racists
Europeans are racists.
Iranians are racists.

But, in Europe, they make one feel cheap as dirt !!The level of arrogance and racisem is beyond immagination......
For those of you who are supporting, and rationalising the situation, and say Europeans are just like anywhere els........You are betraing you fellow immegrant citizen in your own city, who has been sleeping with red eyes for many years....
Go and convince them

[zereshk-ali]

Please, lets not change this very important issue to the difference between USA and Europe.....................
South africans used to be racists,
Jews in general are also racist ( They say they are chosen )
Americans are racists
Europeans are racists.
Iranians are racists.
But, in Europe, they make one feel cheap as dirt !!The level of arrogance and racisem is beyond immagination......
For those of you who are supporting, and rationalising the situation, and say Europeans are just like anywhere els........You are betraing you fellow immegrant citizen in your own city, who has been sleeping with red eyes for many years....
Go and convince them

I don't think we are trying to rationalise the situation in order to condone racism.

I personally am taking issue with the subject of the thread suggesting that the problem is worse in Europe.

I also take issue with the fact that you start the whole thread with a generalisation bordering on racism. How is this different to the Dutch or Danish racists looking down at the Turks in their country who they claim are the ones behind the crime.

[zereshk-ali]

Again -
You want to measure Racism in a society - look at their "Education" and "Laws". Personal observation
American kids are "educated" not to be racist.
American Laws are full of non-discrimination "laws". American business community has "laws" in support of minorities.
Is that the case in Europe ?

I strongly disagree...

There are stricter laws in Austria and Germany on anti-semitic crimes which are so restrictive that they are actually infringements on freedom of speech.
The British Historian David Irving was recently tried in Austria for the crime of writing a book questioning the extent of the deaths in the Holocaust.

Does this happen in Japan where they deny many war crimes? Or in Turkey where they still to this day deny the Armenian and Lebanese genocide? Or indeed in the U.S. where they deliberately and systematically slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans and Japanese civilians in their firebombing campaign at the end of the second world war. I'll bet they don't teach that one in the U.S. schools.

American kids are educated not to be racist? So are European kids. It sadly doesn't stop most kids whose parents are racist turning out to be racist too.

[King Irooni]

Racism is evident in every part of our world from Italy to Iran, USA to Brazil.

Unfortunately we have this in our world, asnd we all have to try to do our best to get rid of this hatred.

But to generalise a group of people is wrong.

Its like saying all Iranians are Terrorists or all Italians are part of the Mafia.

[Persian]

ZZ Jaan - it's all in "Education" and the "Laws"
American Kids get education not to be racist - those who are - are generaly not educated. Ant even more importantly - American Laws do not allow Racism - not in public and not in the professional environment.
Certainly not going to claim America is perfect - but there is no comparison with the rest of the world.

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, many Iranians do not understand this due to their ignorance. You have to live in this country to understand it's beauty. I have no judgement about their political standpoint, but the nation and people are certainly dignified. In America you are not judged by your heritage, you are judged by your abilities.

[soniq]

Please, lets not change this very important issue to the difference between USA and Europe.....................
South africans used to be racists,
Jews in general are also racist ( They say they are chosen )
Americans are racists
Europeans are racists.
Iranians are racists.
But, in Europe, they make one feel cheap as dirt !!The level of arrogance and racisem is beyond immagination......
For those of you who are supporting, and rationalising the situation, and say Europeans are just like anywhere els........You are betraing you fellow immegrant citizen in your own city, who has been sleeping with red eyes for many years....
Go and convince them

every country,every race,every religion,have a group of ppl who are racist,u cant just say [x] ppl are racist and the [y] religion has racist ppl!

[zzgloo]

I have a friend,by the name of hesam,whom had moved from sweden to USA,about 4 years ago.....he says, he used to think the american-Iranians who used to come to sweden were kind of arrogant,because,they used to say the people in sweden are racist and these Iranians were too out spoken about thier rights....but, he says, since he has moved to USA, and although,there is recism in USA also, but now he understand why those Iranians acted like that........In USA, we have learned to demand our rights, and we do not take any SH...!!,from anybody....., but In sweden and in europe in general. it is a part of daily life...and it is accepeted.....I know, thier laws are very humain, but reality in thier countries are different....
My childhood friend " hamid " living in hamburg, for 24 years, ( same time as I have lived in USA ) he works in C & A departement store, for twenty hours a week, and every year, even after 24 years,he goes by train to berlin, to extend his residenceship.....he talks to me how it used to be for him, ...
meanwhile, I have had, american citizenship for 17 years, and I have brought 12 of my family members here, and all are either citizen or at least have green card.................
Everytime, I go to hamburg ( once a year) I get into fight with Germans,and thier rude behavior....( believe me, I can tell you twenty examples,with details,if you want me to ).....These things do not exit here.....If an american see, another american to show a rude behavior to a forigner, he or she, would remind them to behaive better, they critisize themseleves....this does not exit in germany.................
In france, last year, the Governemnt, asked french people, to report to the police,if they have forign nieghbor !!!!.....this is considered funny.here....
In Germany, the police, the regular police, could, and would stop you and ask for Passport and visa.....again, this is very funny here.......
My fellow, European Iranian member of this site.....I have a question for you..........
Do you exactly know what happened in France two mounths ago and the up-raisings ??? and do you know why ???

[soniq]

I have a friend,by the name of hesam,whom had moved from sweden to USA,about 4 years ago.....he says, he used to think the american-Iranians who used to come to sweden were kind of arrogant,because,they used to say the people in sweden are racist and these Iranians were too out spoken about thier rights....but, he says, since he has moved to USA, and although,there is recism in USA also, but now he understand why those Iranians acted like that........In USA, we have learned to demand our rights, and we do not take any SH...!!,from anybody....., but In sweden and in europe in general. it is a part of daily life...and it is accepeted.....I know, thier laws are very humain, but reality in thier countries are different....
My childhood friend " hamid " living in hamburg, for 24 years, ( same time as I have lived in USA ) he works in C & A departement store, for twenty hours a day, and every year, even after 24 years,he goes by train to berlin, to extend his residenceship.....he talks to me how it used to be for him, ...
meanwhile, I have had, american citizenship for 17 years, and I have brought 12 of my family members here, and all are either citizen or at least have green card.................
Everytime, I go to hamburg ( once a year) I get into fight with Germans,and thier rude behavior....( believe me, I can tell you twenty examples,with details,if you want me to ).....These things do not exit here.....If an american see, another american to show a rude behavior to a forigner, he or she, would remind them to behaive better, they critisize themseleves....this does not exit in germany.................
In france, last year, the Governemnt, asked french people, to report to the police,if they have forign nieghbor !!!!.....this is considered funny.here....
In Germany, the police, the regular police, could, and would stop you and ask for Passport and visa.....again, this is very funny here.......
My fellow, European Iranian member of this site.....I have a question for you..........
Do you exactly know what happened in France two mounths ago and the up-raisings ??? and do you know why ???

very true

[zereshk-ali]

I have a friend,by the name of hesam,whom had moved from sweden to USA,about 4 years ago.....he says, he used to think the american-Iranians who used to come to sweden were kind of arrogant,because,they used to say the people in sweden are racist and these Iranians were too out spoken about thier rights....but, he says, since he has moved to USA, and although,there is recism in USA also, but now he understand why those Iranians acted like that........In USA, we have learned to demand our rights, and we do not take any SH...!!,from anybody....., but In sweden and in europe in general. it is a part of daily life...and it is accepeted.....I know, thier laws are very humain, but reality in thier countries are different....
My childhood friend " hamid " living in hamburg, for 24 years, ( same time as I have lived in USA ) he works in C & A departement store, for twenty hours a week, and every year, even after 24 years,he goes by train to berlin, to extend his residenceship.....he talks to me how it used to be for him, ...
meanwhile, I have had, american citizenship for 17 years, and I have brought 12 of my family members here, and all are either citizen or at least have green card.................
Everytime, I go to hamburg ( once a year) I get into fight with Germans,and thier rude behavior....( believe me, I can tell you twenty examples,with details,if you want me to ).....These things do not exit here.....If an american see, another american to show a rude behavior to a forigner, he or she, would remind them to behaive better, they critisize themseleves....this does not exit in germany.................
In france, last year, the Governemnt, asked french people, to report to the police,if they have forign nieghbor !!!!.....this is considered funny.here....
In Germany, the police, the regular police, could, and would stop you and ask for Passport and visa.....again, this is very funny here.......
My fellow, European Iranian member of this site.....I have a question for you..........
Do you exactly know what happened in France two mounths ago and the up-raisings ??? and do you know why ???

But for every example of this from Europe you have one in the States.

What about the racist backlash in the States after 9/11? Anti muslim attacks? The attacks on Hindus and Sikhs? Does the fact their ignorance led them to attack Hindu's and Sikhs condone their racism (as you earlier hinted at by suggesting intellectual racism in Europe made the racism worse)? Or how about the restriction on freedoms, arrests and poor treatment of innocent suspects of the Muslim community?

I'm not saying racism is not a problem in Europe - it is. I just don't think that the U.S. is any less racist. Just because their economy is dependant on migration it doesn't make them any less racist or hasn't stopped a history of exploiting illegal immigrant workers.

Let's not forget this is the same country that abolished slavery years after Europe, the same country that perpretrated an indigenous holocaust, and the same country who's President thinks that a 'crusade' on Islam is the best way to deal with disaffection and anger at the hypocritical and biased nature of U.S. foreign policy.

[Rooz]

People are saying generalising like this is wrong n that, but remember that you have to generalise to some extent just for the sake of the arguement.

Eg. Racism is in workingclass, poor, uneducated shithole areas of England ..... sorry i forgot to generalise