MESSI: A disgrace the game of Football??

[EKBATAN]

ok i'll get over it if you get rid of your italia bar
but you know we barely ever see Italy produce outstanding players such as in the calibre of Ronaldinho , Henry, Zidane, Maradona, Messi, Eto'o .. I wonder why it must the brand of defensive football that doesn't allow for beautiful football to come through!!

That "defensive" era of football you're talking about is way over in italy. They have some of the best strikers in the world rite now...especially youngsters coming up like Quagliari, Rossi, Pazzini, etc...

Just cuz italy plays as TEAM and doesnt focus on ONE star like the ones you mentioned it doesnt make them any less of a champion. This is FOOTBALL we're talking about...a TEAM sport...not beach football or futsal where individual brilliance is displayed.

Like it or not, this is the future/present of football. Teams who have individual stars arent gonna win it anymore...its about who has the most solid team. Why do you think our TM is doing so poorly right now?

[milad]

That "defensive" era of football you're talking about is way over in italy. They have some of the best strikers in the world rite now...especially youngsters coming up like Quagliari, Rossi, Pazzini, etc...
Just cuz italy plays as TEAM and doesnt focus on ONE star like the ones you mentioned it doesnt make them any less of a champion. This is FOOTBALL we're talking about...a TEAM sport...not beach football or futsal where individual brilliance is displayed.
Like it or not, this is the future/present of football. Teams who have individual stars arent gonna win it anymore...its about who has the most solid team. Why do you think our TM is doing so poorly right now?

if italy is not defensive in todays football... then who is?

[EKBATAN]

if italy is not defensive in todays football... then who is?

Well i dont see how you guys can prove that they ARE defensive.

[Arian]

yea it was all the referee's fault for not seeing that

[futbol>>>IRAN]

That "defensive" era of football you're talking about is way over in italy. They have some of the best strikers in the world rite now...especially youngsters coming up like Quagliari, Rossi, Pazzini, etc...
Just cuz italy plays as TEAM and doesnt focus on ONE star like the ones you mentioned it doesnt make them any less of a champion. This is FOOTBALL we're talking about...a TEAM sport...not beach football or futsal where individual brilliance is displayed.
Like it or not, this is the future/present of football. Teams who have individual stars arent gonna win it anymore...its about who has the most solid team. Why do you think our TM is doing so poorly right now?

I agree with you that football is a team game, but every team needs one genious that can change the game in crucial times. The game needs these types of players as they build up hype and bring exitement and joy to the game. Italy won the world cup but I would rather still watch brasil, argentina or even portgal everyday of the week simply because of the brand of football that they play is 'beautiful' and 'entertaining'. And also you are WRONG when you say teams with individual stars aren't gonna win anymore!! Just take a look at this seasons edition of the champions league and tell me or not if it was KAKA that carried Milan to the final and won it for them!!

You are wrong about your philosophy of football , do you think Brasil or Italy has more 'khaaregi' supporters?!! Football is not just about getting results my brother, greece won the 2004 euro and they didn't win over many supporters apart from their own! My greek friend told me , if I wasn't greek I would hate the greek national team. Also do you remember when Branko was getting results in the WC qualifying and most of our supporters where not happy because we were not playing attractive football?

If it weren't for the individual players the game of football wouldn't be as exiting or entertaining as it is today and there wouldn't be so much love and passion for it. It would simply be boring and wouldn't have as much supporters as it does now. That is why the big leagues in the world (La Liga EPL & Serie a ) emphasize so much on bringing big name players to their clubs.. because they know that is how their own national team and players will improve by competing with the best.

[EKBATAN]

I agree with you that football is a team game, but every team needs one genious that can change the game in crucial times. The game needs these types of players as they build up hype and bring exitement and joy to the game. Italy won the world cup but I would rather still watch brasil, argentina or even portgal everyday of the week simply because of the brand of football that they play is 'beautiful' and 'entertaining'. And also you are WRONG when you say teams with individual stars aren't gonna win anymore!! Just take a look at this seasons edition of the champions league and tell me or not if it was KAKA that carried Milan to the final and won it for them!!
You are wrong about your philosophy of football , do you think Brasil or Italy has more 'khaaregi' supporters?!! Football is not just about getting results my brother, greece won the 2004 euro and they didn't win over many supporters apart from their own! My greek friend told me , if I wasn't greek I would hate the greek national team.
If it weren't for the individual players the game of football wouldn't be as exiting or entertaining as it is today and there wouldn't be so much love and passion for it. It would simply be boring and wouldn't have as much supporters as it does now. That is why the big leagues in the world (La Liga EPL & Serie a ) emphasize so much on bringing big name players to their clubs.. because they know that is how their own national team and players will improve by competing with the best.

You're just being stubborn..italy plays just as much entertaining football as the teams you mentioned. The thing you gotta understand about football is you cant predict it and you can't generalize...EVERY SINGLE game is different. Some games are good and some are boring and that goes for brazil and argentina too!
The thing i dont like about most footballs fans is their assumptions and generazlizations....for ex; just cuz you saw "team x" play 2 bad games in a row..you already assume thats how they are and they're always like that.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

You're just being stubborn..italy plays just as much entertaining football as the teams you mentioned. The thing you gotta understand about football is you cant predict it and you can't generalize...EVERY SINGLE game is different. Some games are good and some are boring and that goes for brazil and argentina too!
The thing i dont like about most footballs fans is their assumptions and generazlizations....for ex; just cuz you saw "team x" play 2 bad games in a row..you already assume thats how they are and they're always like that.

To say Italy plays just as entertaining as Brasil and Argentina is an exageration and bias comment, I enjoyed Argentina's 6-0 drubbing of serbia more than italy's whole WC campaign put together.

I dont generalise, I judge based over a period of time. Teams change and players come and go. Historically Argentina and Brasil have always played attractive free flowing football till date, most people would agree. But the same can be said for teams; when 'team x' plays 2 good games in a row 'team x' therefore play good football.

I'm not trying to piss you off, I am debating . The point that I liked to make is that Italy were not convincing winners this time round most people that I have talked to Irani and non Irani have said that Italy were cheats and didn't play fair apart from italia fans. But when Brasil won it in 2002 I didn't hear such things

[faraz]

Italy were cheats and didn't play fair

How were they CHEATS? When did they CHEAT?

Cheating is what Juventus did - Italy is not responsible for the penalty call against Australia (which, WAS, in fact, a penalty), nor was Italy responsible for Zidane's violent actions - that is not CHEATING.

Cheating is a strong word to use my friend.

In my books, beating Germany ON German ground (and quite convincingly too - Italy absolutely owned a STELLAR German side) is worth the cup alone.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

How were they CHEATS? When did they CHEAT?

Cheating is what Juventus did - Italy is not responsible for the penalty call against Australia (which, WAS, in fact, a penalty), nor was Italy responsible for Zidane's violent actions - that is not CHEATING.

Cheating is a strong word to use my friend.

In my books, beating Germany ON German ground (and quite convincingly too - Italy absolutely owned a STELLAR German side) is worth the cup alone.

its nice to see coming to stick up for ur mate. But like it or not they are cheats, they practically did everyting in their power to win that cup and that is why they are not well respected winners.

I disagree that was a penalty againts australia, funny you should say that when gennaro gattuso came out and admitted that that was no penalty!

Remember the Italian media showing fifa the picture of frings punching cruz in after the match in the quarter final?! Now thats taking thiings too far no?

Besides why are you hijacking the conversation this is between me and ekbatan and we are discussing football stars

[faraz]

its nice to see coming to stick up for ur mate. But like it or not they are cheats, they practically did everyting in their power to win that cup and that is why they are not well respected winners.

Again you make a statement with no solid proof whatsoever that they "cheated" - absolutely nothing!! You're just gonna state that they cheated over and over again! I guess that's your way of getting past the fact that your team didn't win the WC, fine.

I disagree that was a penalty againts australia, funny you should say that when gennaro gattuso came out and admitted that that was no penalty!

I could care less what Gattuso said. There is a video on youtube (it has been posted before), where there is CLEAR CUT evidence that it was a penalty. Either way, let's say it wasn't a penalty. What does that have to do with CHEATING? As if Italy bribed the ref.

Remember the Italian media showing fifa the picture of frings punching cruz in after the match in the quarter final?! Now thats taking thiings too far no?

I have no idea what you're talking about - but even if the Italian media showed fifa pictures of Frings punching Cruz, how is that CHEATING? Frings PUNCHED Cruz! A physical act of violence - what should be done about that? Nothing?

Besides why are you hijacking the conversation this is between me and ekbatan and we are discussing football stars

I think this is your way of eluding everything I've said. Personally, I hate it when people say "Italy cheated" during the world cup, when really, there is NO evidence to support it. That is why I chose to reply to your post. And to be frank, I don't think it's up to you to decide who I reply to and who I don't. If you want, you can carry a nice long 2-way discussion with Ekbatan through PM?

Anyways, if it makes you feel better, keep saying they cheated. You stay bitter about that and I'll focus on the fact that my team won the WC.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

Again you make a statement with no solid proof whatsoever that they "cheated" - absolutely nothing!! You're just gonna state that they cheated over and over again! I guess that's your way of getting past the fact that your team didn't win the WC, fine.



I could care less what Gattuso said. There is a video on youtube (it has been posted before), where there is CLEAR CUT evidence that it was a penalty. Either way, let's say it wasn't a penalty. What does that have to do with CHEATING? As if Italy bribed the ref.



I have no idea what you're talking about - but even if the Italian media showed fifa pictures of Frings punching Cruz, how is that CHEATING? Frings PUNCHED Cruz! A physical act of violence - what should be done about that? Nothing?



I think this is your way of eluding everything I've said. Personally, I hate it when people say "Italy cheated" during the world cup, when really, there is NO evidence to support it. That is why I chose to reply to your post. And to be frank, I don't think it's up to you to decide who I reply to and who I don't. If you want, you can carry a nice long 2-way discussion with Ekbatan through PM?

Anyways, if it makes you feel better, keep saying they cheated. You stay bitter about that and I'll focus on the fact that my team won the WC.

Italy cheated, I will say it again and again. call it what you like gamesmenship, cunningness, sneakiness, smart.

but let me ask you this faraz jan how did you feel when satar zare got red carded againts the chinese player last asian cup?!! Did it feel good?!
What Materazzi did to Zidane was similar in its own way.

If memory serves me right I do remember you calling the chinese cheats at some point in the forum but that is besides the point.

That is why people feel that France was hard done by and that is a reason why people say Italy cheated. I gaurantee you if in asian cup somthing similar happened to Iran that happened to Le Bleus you would not be too happy about it.

[EKBATAN]

NO man the debate is over

you guys keep making statements without proof...how did italy cheat? I dont care if you and your friends are anti-italy and think they cheated. Everyone in the world recognizes them as winners and they'll always be winners.

Im afraid you're just making bogus statements cuz of your personal issues. I've proved it to you and everyone else over and over, so there is no point. end of story.

[Kasra.]

Italy cheated, I will say it again and again. call it what you like gamesmenship, cunningness, sneakiness, smart.
but let me ask you this faraz jan how did you feel when satar zare got red carded againts the chinese player last asian cup?!! Did it feel good?!
What Materazzi did to Zidane was similar in its own way.
If memory serves me right I do remember you calling the chinese cheats at some point in the forum but that is besides the point.
That is why people feel that France was hard done by and that is a reason why people say Italy cheated. I gaurantee you if in asian cup somthing similar happened to Iran that happened to Le Bleus you would not be too happy about it.

Baba Martike Zidane (with all the respect I have for him) he could've said the same thing back... but what is it with the wild ZOO-type of agressive reaction? we are playing football, its not a "Freefight" match...

I dunno if you have ever played football, but its the normal thing to play a lil bit dirty... to get the player out of his match especially when you're a defender playing vs. a very good and techniqued player

[milad]

italy was a dirty, lucky, and boring team in the world cup. rossi elbowed the american guy, and materazzi provoked zidane. they won on penalties despite defending for most of the match, and had an easy path to the finals except the germany game which they got lucky to score in last minute. they were saved due to an incorrect call in the last second of the game against australia. they were boring because they played defensive and didnt have an attacking star player. however, either way they won, even though some teams deserved to win instead thats just how it is, luck is part of the tournament. so despite these facts, you cant blame italy for winning. they won and thats it. its not like they should be stripped of their trophy.

[EKBATAN]

italy was a dirty, lucky, and boring team in the world cup. rossi elbowed the american guy, and materazzi provoked zidane. they won on penalties despite defending for most of the match, and had an easy path to the finals except the germany game which they got lucky to score in last minute. they were saved due to an incorrect call in the last second of the game against australia. they were boring because they played defensive and didnt have an attacking star player. however, either way they won, even though some teams deserved to win instead thats just how it is, luck is part of the tournament. so despite these facts, you cant blame italy for winning. they won and thats it. its not like they should be stripped of their trophy.

:bs:

italy had the hardest group
ukraine was one of the best teams in qualifiers
their record was 2-0, 1-1, 2-0, 1-0, 3-0, 2-0
NO TEAM SCORED A REAL GOAL ON THEM

you bring up australia...how bout giving france a penalty in the first 5 min. of the final....thats fair you think??? it was the biggest dive ever....if the australia game wasnt a penalty then this one was even worse...he didnt EVEN GET TOUCHED!

OH and lets not forget toni's goal which wasnt offside...so technically italy won 2-1

seems pretty convincing record to me....the bottom line is no one else desrved it.

italy worked hard to get there after 5 world cups in row of getting robbed in penalties and the match fixing against korea in 02

they overcame their curse of losing in penalties by scoring ALL 5


NOW THAT'S ONE HELL OF A COMEBACK!