OFFICIAL EURO 2008 THREAD- [Videos, Match Reports, Discussion, Tv Links]

[Osasunist]

It's difficult and hard to explain. Lot of years and centuries with conquests, treasons, threatens... even now.

If you are interested, this link may help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._Basque_people

[milad]

It's difficult and hard to explain. Lot of years and centuries with conquests, treasons, threatens... even now.
If you are interested, this link may help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._Basque_people

so you guys, catalonians, and the other minorities are all different races? i guess its similar to azeris and armenians in iran.

[Osasunist]

so you guys, catalonians, and the other minorities are all different races? i guess its similar to azeris and armenians in iran.

[milad]

affirmative. thanks for the info.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

how will your people be better off if you were to get independence along with the Catalans, economically and as a nation?!!

Wouldn't it be better if all the people of Spain (including Catalans and Basque's) united and worked together to build a stronger nation rather than being divided into small countries like the Balkans?

I guess that is why Spain has been under achieving over the years; lack of unity within the team.

[Amir-Che]

Despite my desire, Spain deservedly won. Very impressive team.

[KC McElroy]

Thank God Europe has a new champion and we are done with this anti-soccer greece crap.

[yashar_fasihnia]

c'mon yashar everyone knows this German team was an average team that probably didn't deserve to be in the final just like back in 02
The only world class players Germany has is Ballack and Lahm.. thats it.
Germany needs to make some changes to their footballing system so that they can produce more world class players and players of great technical ability.

i dont consider schweinsteiger, klose, podolski, lahm and even frings as average. this is where i disagree. if these players are considered average, then i guess there are only a handful of "worldclass" players

now if the team didnt impress, that doesnt mean the players are average.

the same team and same players played in worldcup 2006 when they were 2 years less experienced than today. were they average back then as well?

[Suprah]

i dont consider schweinsteiger, klose, podolski, lahm and even frings as average. this is where i disagree. if these players are considered average, then i guess there are only a handful of "worldclass" players
now if the team didnt impress, that doesnt mean the players are average.
the same team and same players played in worldcup 2006 when they were 2 years less experienced than today. were they average back then as well?

Home support is an added factor. Look at China in 2004 Asian Cup and Portugal in Euro 2004.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

i dont consider schweinsteiger, klose, podolski, lahm and even frings as average. this is where i disagree. if these players are considered average, then i guess there are only a handful of "worldclass" players
now if the team didnt impress, that doesnt mean the players are average.
the same team and same players played in worldcup 2006 when they were 2 years less experienced than today. were they average back then as well?

look even the German's themselves know that Ballack is the only one player that they can consider 'world class' in their team.

Generally speaking the Germans don't produce many stars because of their philosophy of football which they mainly rely on physical and mental aspect of the game. They simply dont believe in or encourage improvisation , being Germans everything they do has to be 'precise'.

Though Klinnsman did bring some change to the German system after their free flowing style of football and if he stayed at the helm who knows maybe today's result would have been different.

Before the 06 world cup Klinnsman traveled to France to see how the French develop their players and he came with the conclusion that Germany is far behind in player development in the technical sense, bringing up players with great skill, flare and creativeness.

The Germans are slowly realizing this and will be forced to change the way they approach the game if they want to be competitive in modern football. They know they were dominated by a side that was more technically gifted , creative and adventurous with their football.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Home support is an added factor. Look at China in 2004 Asian Cup and Portugal in Euro 2004.

so, how many worldclass players do u think portugal has then?
only ronaldo right?

or u wanna include deco, nani, quaresma, simao, nuno gomez, pauleta, maniche, carvalho, pepe?

[yashar_fasihnia]

look even the German's themselves know that Ballack is the only one player that they can consider 'world class' in their team.

uhm...no. they consider ballack, their most influential player, not their only worldclass player.
just like man utd consider ronaldo their most influential player, but not their only worldclass player!

Generally speaking the Germans don't produce many stars because of their philosophy of football which they mainly rely on physical and mental aspect of the game. They simply dont believe in or encourage improvisation , being Germans everything they do has to be 'precise'.

again i disagree. u dont have to be technical or flashy to be worldclass.
germany has produced TONS of worldclass players in all positions.
kahn, sepp maier, kopke, lehman as GKs.
franz beckenbauer, berty vogts, andreas brehme, philip lahm, jurgen kholer as defenders.
andreas moller, lothar mathaeus, paul breitner, steffan effenberg, felix magath, thomas hassler, mathaus sammer, sebastian deisler, mehmet scholl, dietmer hamann as midfielders.
gerd muller, jurgen klinsman, oliver bierhoff, rudi voeller, miroslav klose, karl heinze rumennige, uli hoeness as strikers.

and these are just the most famous players which any football fan should know specially us younger ones who havent been following football more than a decade or so. now if you ask some experienced critics, im sure they will make a much bigger list for u.

these are just as many worldclass players as other top nations of the world produce and like i said, there are earlier players from 50s and 60s which u and me wont know of but probably the elders will.

Though Klinnsman did bring some change to the German system after their free flowing style of football and if he stayed at the helm who knows maybe today's result would have been different.
Before the 06 world cup Klinnsman traveled to France to see how the French develop their players and he came with the conclusion that Germany is far behind in player development in the technical sense, bringing up players with great skill, flare and creativeness.
The Germans are slowly realizing this and will be forced to change the way they approach the game if they want to be competitive in modern football. They know they were dominated by a side that was more technically gifted , creative and adventurous with their football.

i think the difference arises in how we define "worldclass"
many people consider german players worldclass once they get more exposure in the EPL, serie A or la liga. for example, some players only became aware of wat a great player guys like philip lahm, bastian schweinsteiger and lukas podolski are after they saw them in worldcup 2006 while they were actually the same great talented players in the bundesliga before the worldcup 2006 as well.
the same with miroslav klose.

this is a very flawed perspective i think otherwise for example, metzelder should be considered worldclass because he is in real madrid.

its been years now that all top clubs are prusuing the likes of podolski, schweinsteiger and lahm.

for me, if i have to follow ur perspective of categorizing ballack and maybe lahm as the only worldclass players in germany and raising the bar so high, then i can say the only worldclass players i see around the world are
kaka, robinho and ronaldinho from brazil,
gerrard, rooney and terry from england,
christiano ronaldo and deco from portugal,
puyol, casillas and xavi from spain,
van nistelory and van der sar from holland,
buffon, pirlo and toni from italy,
nedved and rosicky from czech republic.

and anyone else i left from these countries as average players because i dont think thelikes of schweinsteiger, podolski, klose and frings are anything less than the ones i left out from the list above

now put schweinsteiger in chelsea or juventus and suddenly he will be considered worldclass!
now if rosicky would continue to shine in the bundesliga with dortmund rathern than joining arsenal, he wouldnt be considered worldclass!
or if riquelme or mascherano were not playing in la liga and EPL, many wouldnt even consider them worthy or argentinian national player, forget about being "worldclass"

also, its interesting to note that, i consider raul as worldclass but not david villa if we go by ur definition but guess wat, david villa was the tournaments top scorer but raul wasnt even selected for the national team!

the fact that germany doesnt play flashy and is too organized doesnt mean that it doesnt have worldclass players. it COULD MEAN that the team isnt making the best use of its worldclass players. or it COULD MEAN that the team and the players dont play an eye catching football to be considered worldclass by many.
and then again, it depends how u define good football. one may consider good football as play totally defensive but win like greece, one mmay consider good football as a very organized and efficient but not very technical football like germany, one may consider good football as a defensive and tactically sound football like italy, one may good consider football as an all attacking flashy technical football like brazil, one may consider good football as just playing beautiful attacking flashy football even if u dont get results like portugal.
question is, how do u define good football?

so my question is, how do u define worldclass?? popularity? exposure? technical skills? efficiency? tactically adaptable? experience? or wat??

for a team like germany to consistently perform so well (even if its not attractive football) is not possbile with just 1 worldclass player and a bunch of average players.
teams like getafe are a bunch of average players and have an amazing 1 or 2 seasons but after that, they fade away and go back to where they belong. but when germany repeatedly performs well with the same set of "average players", then clearly, that team doesnt consist of just "average players" anymore.
when a team has players who can do each other's duties and step up for their team mates and do their duties, they are not average players anymore.
when gomez and klose fail to score but podolski as a midfielder steps up and scores thrice in different games, or when podolski and klose as strikers dont score but schweinsteiger steps up and scores twice in 2 different games or when the whole midfield and forward line of germany cant score but a full back like philip lahm comes all the way from his own goal and scores, these are sign of worldclass players. players who can change the game with their presence.
or when in the worldcup 2006, with the absence of just 1 "average" player like torsten frings, germany's midfield gets affected so much in the game against italy, it shows wat an "average" player frings is that his absence cant be filled even with ballack in the midfield!

these are players which any team in the world will be willing to sign.
if germany relied only on its 1 worldclass player, "ballack", germany would have repeatedly got eliminated long ago in every tournament and these players wouldnt keep stepping up time and again to change the game. now whether they prefer to stay in bundesliga or move to another league, thats a different story.

in other words, if u raise the bar so high, i guess all the top teams in the world have just 2-3 or maximum 4 "worldclass" players and the rest are just "average" players??

[futbol>>>IRAN]

In certain positions of the game such as strikers and midfielders have to have a high level of technical ability and be able to change the course of a game on their own. And in Germany Ballack is the only one that can do that which you saw againts Portugal and Austria.

Being world class doesn't mean playing for a big club such as in the case of David Villa who has just remained loyal to Valencia all these years but you can be assured that he is not far from going to a world class team.

It is a fact that Germans consider Ballack their only world class player and just see the others as you can say 'above average' .

There is no way you can compare the technical ability , flare of the spanish , argentinian , brazilian , portuguese players to the german players.

Germany has always been a powerhouse in the history of football and probably the most consistent national team however in recent times they have failed to produce players that give the team the edge or the x factor.

[Suprah]

so, how many worldclass players do u think portugal has then?
only ronaldo right?
or u wanna include deco, nani, quaresma, simao, nuno gomez, pauleta, maniche, carvalho, pepe?

Hmmm

I wonder why I actually put Portugal of 2004 in my post

[Darvish11]

xavi wins player of the tournament