OFFICIAL EURO 2008 THREAD- [Videos, Match Reports, Discussion, Tv Links]

[yashar_fasihnia]

In certain positions of the game such as strikers and midfielders have to have a high level of technical ability and be able to change the course of a game on their own. And in Germany Ballack is the only one that can do that which you saw againts Portugal and Austria.

didnt schweinsteiger,lahm and podolski do that against portugal and turkey?

It is a fact that Germans consider Ballack their only world class player and just see the others as you can say 'above average' .

again, i disagree. thats wat u think of the german fans and their opinion about their players.
wat german fans think about ballack is wat man utd fans think about ronaldo. their most influential player, but that doesnt mean they consider the rest of their players average!

There is no way you can compare the technical ability , flare of the spanish , argentinian , brazilian , portuguese players to the german players.

agreed.
however, there is no way u can compare the tactical adaptibility, the versatility to play different positions, the professionalism and the systematic germans to those players u mentioned above, specially the south americans.

so, thats why i said, it depends how u defined "worldclass".

Germany has always been a powerhouse in the history of football and probably the most consistent national team however in recent times they have failed to produce players that give the team the edge or the x factor.

1)how recent are we talking about? cos germany won the euro i 1996, bayern won the champions league in 2001. i mention bayern 2001 because they had a lot of wat i call german worldclass players.

2)please tell me which teams have produced players that give the team the edge or the x-factor? and how many of these teams with these players have actually won anything recently?

the teams that have won soemthing big recently are:
spain euro 2008
italy worldcup 2006
greece euro 2004
brazil worldcup 2002
france euro 2000
france worldcup 1998
germany euro 1996

im sure, we wont talk about greece here. so all we see here is spain once, italy once, brazil once, germany once and france twice.
so now, does that mean the likes of argentina, holland, portugal have not produced worldclass players to give them the edge or the x-factor? interestingly enough, all 3 of them are among the most attractive skilled football teams who exports hundreds of players to different leagues every year! the flair and the technical skills u were talking about are the highest among these 3 mentioned teams yet they fail to win anything every single time!

sorry, but i disagree again. like i said, a team not becoming champions cant be reasoned as lack of "worldclass" players.

3)please tell me, based on ur opinion, how many and who are the world class players in
italy?
spain?
france?
holland?
england?
brazil?
argentina?

and if u dont mind, wat have they won with all their so called "worldclass" players?

[futbol>>>IRAN]

didnt schweinsteiger,lahm and podolski do that against portugal and turkey?
again, i disagree. thats wat u think of the german fans and their opinion about their players.
wat german fans think about ballack is wat man utd fans think about ronaldo. their most influential player, but that doesnt mean they consider the rest of their players average!
agreed.
however, there is no way u can compare the tactical adaptibility, the versatility to play different positions, the professionalism and the systematic germans to those players u mentioned above, specially the south americans.
so, thats why i said, it depends how u defined "worldclass".
1)how recent are we talking about? cos germany won the euro i 1996, bayern won the champions league in 2001. i mention bayern 2001 because they had a lot of wat i call german worldclass players.
2)please tell me which teams have produced players that give the team the edge or the x-factor? and how many of these teams with these players have actually won anything recently?
the teams that have won soemthing big recently are:
spain euro 2008
italy worldcup 2006
greece euro 2004
brazil worldcup 2002
france euro 2000
france worldcup 1998
germany euro 1996
im sure, we wont talk about greece here. so all we see here is spain once, italy once, brazil once, germany once and france twice.
so now, does that mean the likes of argentina, holland, portugal have not produced worldclass players to give them the edge or the x-factor? interestingly enough, all 3 of them are among the most attractive skilled football teams who exports hundreds of players to different leagues every year! the flair and the technical skills u were talking about are the highest among these 3 mentioned teams yet they fail to win anything every single time!
sorry, but i disagree again. like i said, a team not becoming champions cant be reasoned as lack of "worldclass" players.
3)please tell me, based on ur opinion, how many and who are the world class players in
italy?
spain?
france?
holland?
england?
brazil?
argentina?
and if u dont mind, wat have they won with all their so called "worldclass" players?

What the Germans lack in skillful eye catching play they make up with their mentality and fighting spirit. They always fight till the end and never stop and this is what has helped them become such a good tournament team. However this final proved that if Germany wants to be competitive amongst the elite and win something once more they have to start producing a different style of football with more technically gifted players. They were simply dominated in all parts of the field.

The fact that they have so many players with foreign heritage proves that there is something wrong with the development of their own players and they way they bring them up to play football. Podolski, Klose (Polish), Kuryani (Brazilian)

However since Klinnsman took over there have been some big changes in football and if they continue along his ideology they can start playing good football. They are starting to realize that modern football is changing and to be successful you need the messi's, the kaka's and the ronaldo's to give your team the edge.

italy? Totti, Pirlo, Del Piero "WC 06"
spain? the whole team "EURO 2008"
france? Zidane, Henry, Vieira, Benzema, Nasri etc "WC 98" "EURO 2000" "Conderations Cup 02"
holland? Robben, RVN, Van Persie "Still waiting "
brazil? (you have to be kidding right?!) "WC 02" "COPA AMERICA" "CONFEDERATIONS CUP"
argentina? (you have to be kidding right?!)
germany? Ballack and perhaps Lahm "98 round of 16" "02 runners up" "06 3rd place"

As you can see when Germany reached the latter stages of the tournaments in the past 10 years they were ousted by teams which had superior technical level over them particularly in the 2002 World Cup final. Playing average football and getting results can only get you so far at times but in the end there will be a team that is playing good football whilst getting results and the big teams of the world have the obligation to fulfill this role not just for themselves but for the good of football. And that is why this years euro was a victory not just for spain but for football in general.

You can see these players produce players of higher quality than the germans and you cant deny that apart from Holland these teams have achieved more over that past 10 years. As for the dutch and portuguese it is their mental strength that has let them down as before with the spanish but it is just a matter of time before they too live up to expectation.

What lets some of these teams down is not their ability but rather their mentality and that is why the germans are able to play to their strengths to well, even if that is not silky play. And that is why they are able to get results even when they play shit. Even so you cannot rate their football of a high quality , just like how cannot rate the Greece team that won euro a high quality football nation.

[yashar_fasihnia]

Italy Game Was The Hardest - Casillas

Spain captain and goalkeeper Iker Casillas has highlighted his side's victory over Italy as the key to winning Euro 2008, a view that is shared by coach Luis Aragones...

La Furia Roja won their first international trophy in 44 years - the second in their history - when they beat Germany in the Euro 2008 final on Sunday evening.

They were unbeaten all tournament and have widely been recognised as deserved winners, with the only team they failed to beat in normal time being Italy.

The world champions took the now European champions to extra time and then penalties, where the game was decided courtesy of Casillas' penalty saving heroics (pictured).

“The match against Italy was the toughest and above all the most emotional,” admitted the Real Madrid goalkeeper, with the Azzurri the only team not to concede a goal against the Spanish.

Departing coach Aragones, who believes his country did not do enough to keep him when times were tough, has praised his men, declaring them unbeatable when at peak form and also underlining the importance of overcoming Italy in the quarterfinal as they did.

“When you play like we have during this tournament, there isn’t a side that can stand up to us,” declared Aragones..

“Italy managed to hold us and they were only seen off from the penalty spot – that was a crucial win.”

[yashar_fasihnia]

What the Germans lack in skillful eye catching play they make up with their mentality and fighting spirit. They always fight till the end and never stop and this is what has helped them become such a good tournament team. However this final proved that if Germany wants to be competitive amongst the elite and win something once more they have to start producing a different style of football with more technically gifted players. They were simply dominated in all parts of the field.

The fact that they have so many players with foreign heritage proves that there is something wrong with the development of their own players and they way they bring them up to play football. Podolski, Klose (Polish), Kuryani (Brazilian)

However since Klinnsman took over there have been some big changes in football and if they continue along his ideology they can start playing good football. They are starting to realize that modern football is changing and to be successful you need the messi's, the kaka's and the ronaldo's to give your team the edge.

italy? Totti, Pirlo, Del Piero "WC 06"
spain? the whole team "EURO 2008"
france? Zidane, Henry, Vieira, Benzema, Nasri etc "WC 98" "EURO 2000" "Conderations Cup 02"
holland? Robben, RVN, Van Persie "Still waiting "
brazil? (you have to be kidding right?!) "WC 02" "COPA AMERICA" "CONFEDERATIONS CUP"
argentina? (you have to be kidding right?!)
germany? Ballack and perhaps Lahm "98 round of 16" "02 runners up" "06 3rd place"

As you can see when Germany reached the latter stages of the tournaments in the past 10 years they were ousted by teams which had superior technical level over them particularly in the 2002 World Cup final. Playing average football and getting results can only get you so far at times but in the end there will be a team that is playing good football whilst getting results and the big teams of the world have the obligation to fulfill this role not just for themselves but for the good of football. And that is why this years euro was a victory not just for spain but for football in general.

You can see these players produce players of higher quality than the germans and you cant deny that apart from Holland these teams have achieved more over that past 10 years. As for the dutch and portuguese it is their mental strength that has let them down as before with the spanish but it is just a matter of time before they too live up to expectation.

What lets some of these teams down is not their ability but rather their mentality and that is why the germans are able to play to their strengths to well, even if that is not silky play. And that is why they are able to get results even when they play shit. Even so you cannot rate their football of a high quality , just like how cannot rate the Greece team that won euro a high quality football nation.

again nima, we seem to be going in circles.
like i said, how do u define "worldclass"? just whoever has more skills and plays flashier football??

i think having the propfessional mentality and attitude like u said is also part of "worldclass" because its part of a football, just like skills, physique, or watever.
wat the germans lack in skills, they make up for it with "worldclass attitude, professionalism, mentality and consistency"
just like wat english lack in skills, they make up for it with speed!

let me cut this short and try to wrap it up from my side,

1)playing a technical flashy game doesnt necessary mean ur playing the best game or u have worldclass players. its only more entertaining, not necessary the most efficient.
examples are the likes of portugal and holland who have been producing immense talented players who u consider "worldclass" but never achieve anything.

so, worldclass doesnt mean being more technical. there is alot more to that. some aspects of being a worldclass player, german players possess which other team players dont posses like tactical adaptibility, versatility to play in different positions and professional mentality and attitude. this is as important being technically skilful to become a worldclass player.
i guess here is the core difference between ur opinion and mine.

2)all countries have players from different heritages, some more, some less.
france is basically an african team for example.
holland has van bronckorst of indonesia, ibrahim allefay of africa, boulahrouz of africa.
portugal has deco from brazil.

germany in general is one of the "oldest" countries of europe. they have a problem not having enough youth and workforce in the near future which is a very concerning problem in german politics now. globalization is taking place everywhere and considering europe is one of the worlds top industrial countries, its only natural to see more refugees and immigration there.
however, that doesnt excuse the germans to not produce enough talents and i agree with u, there havent been enough german talents produced lately.
but, it doesnt also mean the talents they produced can just be considered average players or even above average.

however, this is irrelevant cos our topic of discussion was whether the likes of klose and podolski who are originally polish are worldclass or not. where they come from and whether germany produces enough talents or not is not relevant to this discussion because our topic of discussion was klose, podoslki, lahm, frings and schweinsteiger being worldclass or not.

3)ok u say italy has totti, pirlo and del pierror as worldclass players.

which means 3 worldclass players and the rest above average lets say.
u also said germany has 2 worldclass players and the rest above average.
now how are the 2 teams so much different, even by ur definition of "worldclass"? one team has 2, the other has 3 (the 3rd one being a subsitute due to his age)

then u say spain, the whole team is worldclass. im sorry, but do i even have to take this argument seriously?
u consider capdevila, marchena, villa, senna, ramos, silva, iniesta as worldclass players but not podoslki, klose, schweinsteiger and frings??
so u would put those guys from spain i mentioned above in the same category as ballack, lahm, ronaldo, messi, gerrard??

no im not kidding about brazil and argentina. no top team in the world can have more than 3 4 worldclass players by ur own standards unless u wanna name every player of argentina and brazil a worldclass player like how u did for spain
besides, i dont consider winning compa america something big because there are mainly 2 teams contending, brazil and argentina. the rest are there to win the bronze medal and below!
its like a euro tournament having only germany and italy play every time and the rest are east european teams. how many times do u think italy and germany will win this tournament?

and confederations cup is a joke and not taken seriously cos there hardly is any competition with some 7 or 8 teams plying and only 2 or 3 from south america or europe. the rest are from oceania, north america, africa and asia! u know that by now im sure

4)finally, i think germany has been more successful overall than most of the other teams with more 2nd and 3rd places than other teams. its easy to choose a time period lets say 10 years when germany hasnt won a cup but 2 3 other teams have won and say, see, other teams have done better but truth is, german football went down in the late 90s and early 2000s and is on its way up again.
all teams go through this up and down period. france will now be facing this problem and from my own understanding and experience of football, so will italy for sometime. then they will come back up again.
we shall wait and see wat happens.

my conclusion:

sorry, u cant say "Germany doesnt produce high quality football" just because they dont play as entertaining as some latino teams. high quality football isnt just about flair, otherwise portugal, holland and even spain should have been devouring trophies left and right. spain finally won something after 44 years!(lets not even talk about their worldcup history) these 3 teams havent won anything significant for decades now if u wanna compare it to 10 years of germany not winning anything.

however,i will agree with u if u say "germany didnt produce high quality football in euro 2008" though.
germany didnt deserve to win the euro, but i wouldnt be surprised if they did because they do have enough worldclass players and worldclass attributes to be able to make a difference and win the games inspite of not playing their best football.

[futbol>>>IRAN]

again nima, we seem to be going in circles.
like i said, how do u define "worldclass"? just whoever has more skills and plays flashier football??
i think having the propfessional mentality and attitude like u said is also part of "worldclass" because its part of a football, just like skills, physique, or watever.
wat the germans lack in skills, they make up for it with "worldclass attitude, professionalism, mentality and consistency"
just like wat english lack in skills, they make up for it with speed!
let me cut this short and try to wrap it up from my side,
1)playing a technical flashy game doesnt necessary mean ur playing the best game or u have worldclass players. its only more entertaining, not necessary the most efficient.
examples are the likes of portugal and holland who have been producing immense talented players who u consider "worldclass" but never achieve anything.
so, worldclass doesnt mean being more technical. there is alot more to that. some aspects of being a worldclass player, german players possess which other team players dont posses like tactical adaptibility, versatility to play in different positions and professional mentality and attitude. this is as important being technically skilful to become a worldclass player.
i guess here is the core difference between ur opinion and mine.
2)all countries have players from different heritages, some more, some less.
france is basically an african team for example.
holland has van bronckorst of indonesia, ibrahim allefay of africa, boulahrouz of africa.
portugal has deco from brazil.
germany in general is one of the "oldest" countries of europe. they have a problem not having enough youth and workforce in the near future which is a very concerning problem in german politics now. globalization is taking place everywhere and considering europe is one of the worlds top industrial countries, its only natural to see more refugees and immigration there.
however, that doesnt excuse the germans to not produce enough talents and i agree with u, there havent been enough german talents produced lately.
but, it doesnt also mean the talents they produced can just be considered average players or even above average.
however, this is irrelevant cos our topic of discussion was whether the likes of klose and podolski who are originally polish are worldclass or not. where they come from and whether germany produces enough talents or not is not relevant to this discussion because our topic of discussion was klose, podoslki, lahm, frings and schweinsteiger being worldclass or not.
3)ok u say italy has totti, pirlo and del pierror as worldclass players.
which means 3 worldclass players and the rest above average lets say.
u also said germany has 2 worldclass players and the rest above average.
now how are the 2 teams so much different, even by ur definition of "worldclass"? one team has 2, the other has 3 (the 3rd one being a subsitute due to his age)
then u say spain, the whole team is worldclass. im sorry, but do i even have to take this argument seriously?
u consider capdevila, marchena, villa, senna, ramos, silva, iniesta as worldclass players but not podoslki, klose, schweinsteiger and frings??
so u would put those guys from spain i mentioned above in the same category as ballack, lahm, ronaldo, messi, gerrard??
no im not kidding about brazil and argentina. no top team in the world can have more than 3 4 worldclass players by ur own standards unless u wanna name every player of argentina and brazil a worldclass player like how u did for spain
besides, i dont consider winning compa america something big because there are mainly 2 teams contending, brazil and argentina. the rest are there to win the bronze medal and below!
its like a euro tournament having only germany and italy play every time and the rest are east european teams. how many times do u think italy and germany will win this tournament?
and confederations cup is a joke and not taken seriously cos there hardly is any competition with some 7 or 8 teams plying and only 2 or 3 from south america or europe. the rest are from oceania, north america, africa and asia! u know that by now im sure
4)finally, i think germany has been more successful overall than most of the other teams with more 2nd and 3rd places than other teams. its easy to choose a time period lets say 10 years when germany hasnt won a cup but 2 3 other teams have won and say, see, other teams have done better but truth is, german football went down in the late 90s and early 2000s and is on its way up again.
all teams go through this up and down period. france will now be facing this problem and from my own understanding and experience of football, so will italy for sometime. then they will come back up again.
we shall wait and see wat happens.
my conclusion:
sorry, u cant say "Germany doesnt produce high quality football" just because they dont play as entertaining as some latino teams. high quality football isnt just about flair, otherwise portugal, holland and even spain should have been devouring trophies left and right. spain finally won something after 44 years!(lets not even talk about their worldcup history) these 3 teams havent won anything significant for decades now if u wanna compare it to 10 years of germany not winning anything.
however,i will agree with u if u say "germany didnt produce high quality football in euro 2008" though.
germany didnt deserve to win the euro, but i wouldnt be surprised if they did because they do have enough worldclass players and worldclass attributes to be able to make a difference and win the games inspite of not playing their best football.

world class are players which perform at the highest level in the highest hierarchy of football . That is competing with the best and being the best at what you do whether that is a match winner, defender or defensive midfielder. Pound for pound most of the players in the starting line up in the teams i mentioned are better players than the ones that play in the starting line up for germany. Now please bare in mind that we are talking about german players and not germany as a team, portugal, holland have the players yet they dont have the team spirit and mentality of the germans which is a big part of their failure to bring in silverware.

The germans are good in certain aspects of the game yet that still doesn't classify their players as 'world class'. They simply play to their strengths and as they cannot outplay more technically gifted teams.

Like i said before germany played great football in 06 yet they lacked the quality they displayed just like they did in 02. And they have a long way to go if they are to continue to follow the work Klinnsman started.

Its not to say that you cant play great football without world class players yet when you consider the top ten teams in the world at the end the day it is the 'x-factor' players which separate them from the rest.

For instance the Czech republic had a disappointing tournament by their standards after being semi finalists in the previous edition of euro. And that is mainly due to the fact that this time there was no Nedved or Rosicky for the Czech's . Players which bring creativity and spark to their game, in other words players that make a difference. Had these players played Czech could have lived up to expectations.

[Daei_The_King]

when did this thread turn to essays?

[futbol>>>IRAN]

when did this thread turn to essays?

since yashar entered the arena

[Suprah]

World class vs Middle class

[futbol>>>IRAN]

World class vs Middle class

what do you mean?

[Suprah]

what do you mean?

its a joke. a lame one

[yashar_fasihnia]

its a joke. a lame one

so the myth about the english and their sense of humour is true huh>

[yashar_fasihnia]

when did this thread turn to essays?

do i get an A+?

[Suprah]

so the myth about the english and their sense of humour is true huh>

Who said I'm English ?

[yashar_fasihnia]

Who said I'm English ?

i know ur not english dude! but the fact that ur a big supporter of their football club and have been studying there for years now must have had its influences on u