What is your take on Allen Iverson??

[milad]

he was fun to follow when he played for the Sixers
but he was never a good team player, always a one man show.

take a look at his assists. he was the best guard in the nba in my generation. nobody else would have as many ppg and apg as him. he was the best scorer and one of the best at assists. kobe was always trying to chase him in scoring . but iverson had more points AND assists. the answer!

but obviously he is aging so he is not what he used to be.

[persian boy]

He is not what he used to be but he is still one of the best PG/SG's in the game.
The thing with Detroit is, they are a team where every player is used. Iverson is an elite scorer, not a big team player, which is why he isnt doing as well in Detroit.

[persianbruin]

Its funny how the Kobe, AI comparison wasnt even here until the kid showed up!! Cuz its not even close.

AI came from college and went to a loser team so had the green light to do whatever but you dont remember cuz you were a fetus. Kobe went to a contender where the starting back court of van excel/eddie jones were allstars. Look at their minutes per game the first 3 years in the league.

AI has never been a better scorer than Kobe. Hell he wasnt even as good as Lebron or wade. Its just that he had the green light.

Imagine Kobe having the green light from day one........oooohh I am getting goosebumps. Kobe will finish as the 3rd best scorer of all time behind kareem and malone but only becasue he missed out of being the #1 option his first 6 seasons (thats half his career so far) but LbJ will probably go to the top of the list when its all said and done since he was the #1 option from day 1.

back to scoring: look at the # of 40 and 50 point games AI and Kobe have. Its not even close!

[milad]

the answer:

Year  	Team  	G  	GS  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	OFF  	DEF  	RPG  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	TO  	PF  	PPG
96-97 	PHI 	76 	74 	40.1 	0.416 	0.341 	0.702 	1.5 	2.6 	4.1 	7.5 	2.1 	0.3 	4.43 	3.10 	23.5
97-98 	PHI 	80 	80 	39.4 	0.461 	0.298 	0.729 	1.1 	2.6 	3.7 	6.2 	2.2 	0.3 	3.05 	2.50 	22.0
98-99 	PHI 	48 	48 	41.5 	0.412 	0.291 	0.751 	1.4 	3.5 	4.9 	4.6 	2.3 	0.2 	3.48 	2.00 	26.8
99-00 	PHI 	70 	70 	40.8 	0.421 	0.341 	0.713 	1.0 	2.8 	3.8 	4.7 	2.1 	0.1 	3.29 	2.30 	28.4
00-01 	PHI 	71 	71 	42.0 	0.420 	0.320 	0.814 	0.7 	3.1 	3.8 	4.6 	2.5 	0.3 	3.34 	2.10 	31.1
01-02 	PHI 	60 	59 	43.7 	0.398 	0.291 	0.812 	0.7 	3.8 	4.5 	5.5 	2.8 	0.2 	3.95 	1.70 	31.4
02-03 	PHI 	82 	82 	42.5 	0.414 	0.277 	0.774 	0.8 	3.4 	4.2 	5.5 	2.7 	0.2 	3.49 	1.80 	27.6
03-04 	PHI 	48 	47 	42.5 	0.387 	0.286 	0.745 	0.7 	3.0 	3.7 	6.8 	2.4 	0.1 	4.35 	1.80 	26.4
04-05 	PHI 	75 	75 	42.3 	0.424 	0.308 	0.835 	0.7 	3.3 	4.0 	7.9 	2.4 	0.1 	4.59 	1.90 	30.7
05-06 	PHI 	72 	72 	43.1 	0.447 	0.323 	0.814 	0.6 	2.6 	3.2 	7.4 	1.9 	0.1 	3.44 	1.70 	33.0
06-07 	PHI 	15 	15 	42.7 	0.413 	0.226 	0.885 	0.5 	2.3 	2.7 	7.3 	2.2 	0.1 	4.40 	1.40 	31.2
06-07 	DEN 	50 	49 	42.4 	0.454 	0.347 	0.759 	0.3 	2.7 	3.0 	7.2 	1.8 	0.2 	4.04 	1.50 	24.8
07-08 	DEN 	82 	82 	41.8 	0.458 	0.345 	0.809 	0.6 	2.4 	3.0 	7.1 	2.0 	0.2 	2.99 	1.30 	26.4
08-09 	DEN 	3 	3 	41.0 	0.450 	0.250 	0.720 	1.0 	1.7 	2.7 	6.7 	1.0 	0.3 	3.33 	1.00 	18.7
08-09 	DET 	51 	50 	37.5 	0.417 	0.286 	0.792 	0.5 	2.6 	3.2 	5.0 	1.6 	0.1 	2.55 	1.50 	18.0
Career 	-- 	883 	877 	41.5 	0.425 	0.313 	0.781 	0.8 	2.9 	3.7 	6.2 	2.2 	0.1 	3.61 	2.00 	27.1

steak:

Year  	Team  	G  	GS  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	OFF  	DEF  	RPG  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	TO  	PF  	PPG
96-97 	LAL 	71 	6 	15.5 	0.417 	0.375 	0.819 	0.7 	1.2 	1.9 	1.3 	0.7 	0.3 	1.58 	1.40 	7.6
97-98 	LAL 	79 	1 	26.0 	0.428 	0.341 	0.794 	1.0 	2.1 	3.1 	2.5 	0.9 	0.5 	1.99 	2.30 	15.4
98-99 	LAL 	50 	50 	37.9 	0.465 	0.267 	0.839 	1.1 	4.2 	5.3 	3.8 	1.4 	1.0 	3.14 	3.10 	19.9
99-00 	LAL 	66 	62 	38.2 	0.468 	0.319 	0.821 	1.6 	4.7 	6.3 	4.9 	1.6 	0.9 	2.76 	3.30 	22.5
00-01 	LAL 	68 	68 	40.9 	0.464 	0.305 	0.853 	1.5 	4.3 	5.9 	5.0 	1.7 	0.6 	3.24 	3.30 	28.5
01-02 	LAL 	80 	80 	38.3 	0.469 	0.250 	0.829 	1.4 	4.1 	5.5 	5.5 	1.5 	0.4 	2.79 	2.90 	25.2
02-03 	LAL 	82 	82 	41.5 	0.451 	0.383 	0.843 	1.3 	5.6 	6.9 	5.9 	2.2 	0.8 	3.51 	2.70 	30.0
03-04 	LAL 	65 	64 	37.6 	0.438 	0.327 	0.852 	1.6 	3.9 	5.5 	5.1 	1.7 	0.4 	2.63 	2.70 	24.0
04-05 	LAL 	66 	66 	40.7 	0.433 	0.339 	0.816 	1.4 	4.5 	5.9 	6.0 	1.3 	0.8 	4.09 	2.60 	27.6
05-06 	LAL 	80 	80 	41.0 	0.450 	0.347 	0.850 	0.9 	4.4 	5.3 	4.5 	1.8 	0.4 	3.13 	2.90 	35.4
06-07 	LAL 	77 	77 	40.8 	0.463 	0.344 	0.868 	1.0 	4.7 	5.7 	5.4 	1.4 	0.5 	3.31 	2.70 	31.6
07-08 	LAL 	82 	82 	38.9 	0.459 	0.361 	0.840 	1.1 	5.2 	6.3 	5.4 	1.8 	0.5 	3.13 	2.80 	28.3
08-09 	LAL 	61 	61 	36.3 	0.474 	0.339 	0.868 	1.2 	4.3 	5.5 	4.9 	1.3 	0.4 	2.67 	2.20 	28.1
Career 	-- 	927 	779 	36.4 	0.455 	0.340 	0.840 	1.2 	4.1 	5.3 	4.6 	1.5 	0.5 	2.92 	2.70 	25.2

kobe is lasting longer but its clear who was the better scorer in his prime. and iverson was always better in the play offs. so when it mattered: iverson>kobe

[persianbruin]

the answer:

Year  	Team  	G  	GS  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	OFF  	DEF  	RPG  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	TO  	PF  	PPG
96-97 	PHI 	76 	74 	40.1 	0.416 	0.341 	0.702 	1.5 	2.6 	4.1 	7.5 	2.1 	0.3 	4.43 	3.10 	23.5
97-98 	PHI 	80 	80 	39.4 	0.461 	0.298 	0.729 	1.1 	2.6 	3.7 	6.2 	2.2 	0.3 	3.05 	2.50 	22.0
98-99 	PHI 	48 	48 	41.5 	0.412 	0.291 	0.751 	1.4 	3.5 	4.9 	4.6 	2.3 	0.2 	3.48 	2.00 	26.8
99-00 	PHI 	70 	70 	40.8 	0.421 	0.341 	0.713 	1.0 	2.8 	3.8 	4.7 	2.1 	0.1 	3.29 	2.30 	28.4
00-01 	PHI 	71 	71 	42.0 	0.420 	0.320 	0.814 	0.7 	3.1 	3.8 	4.6 	2.5 	0.3 	3.34 	2.10 	31.1
01-02 	PHI 	60 	59 	43.7 	0.398 	0.291 	0.812 	0.7 	3.8 	4.5 	5.5 	2.8 	0.2 	3.95 	1.70 	31.4
02-03 	PHI 	82 	82 	42.5 	0.414 	0.277 	0.774 	0.8 	3.4 	4.2 	5.5 	2.7 	0.2 	3.49 	1.80 	27.6
03-04 	PHI 	48 	47 	42.5 	0.387 	0.286 	0.745 	0.7 	3.0 	3.7 	6.8 	2.4 	0.1 	4.35 	1.80 	26.4
04-05 	PHI 	75 	75 	42.3 	0.424 	0.308 	0.835 	0.7 	3.3 	4.0 	7.9 	2.4 	0.1 	4.59 	1.90 	30.7
05-06 	PHI 	72 	72 	43.1 	0.447 	0.323 	0.814 	0.6 	2.6 	3.2 	7.4 	1.9 	0.1 	3.44 	1.70 	33.0
06-07 	PHI 	15 	15 	42.7 	0.413 	0.226 	0.885 	0.5 	2.3 	2.7 	7.3 	2.2 	0.1 	4.40 	1.40 	31.2
06-07 	DEN 	50 	49 	42.4 	0.454 	0.347 	0.759 	0.3 	2.7 	3.0 	7.2 	1.8 	0.2 	4.04 	1.50 	24.8
07-08 	DEN 	82 	82 	41.8 	0.458 	0.345 	0.809 	0.6 	2.4 	3.0 	7.1 	2.0 	0.2 	2.99 	1.30 	26.4
08-09 	DEN 	3 	3 	41.0 	0.450 	0.250 	0.720 	1.0 	1.7 	2.7 	6.7 	1.0 	0.3 	3.33 	1.00 	18.7
08-09 	DET 	51 	50 	37.5 	0.417 	0.286 	0.792 	0.5 	2.6 	3.2 	5.0 	1.6 	0.1 	2.55 	1.50 	18.0
Career 	-- 	883 	877 	41.5 	0.425 	0.313 	0.781 	0.8 	2.9 	3.7 	6.2 	2.2 	0.1 	3.61 	2.00 	27.1

steak:

Year  	Team  	G  	GS  	MPG  	FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	OFF  	DEF  	RPG  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	TO  	PF  	PPG
96-97 	LAL 	71 	6 	15.5 	0.417 	0.375 	0.819 	0.7 	1.2 	1.9 	1.3 	0.7 	0.3 	1.58 	1.40 	7.6
97-98 	LAL 	79 	1 	26.0 	0.428 	0.341 	0.794 	1.0 	2.1 	3.1 	2.5 	0.9 	0.5 	1.99 	2.30 	15.4
98-99 	LAL 	50 	50 	37.9 	0.465 	0.267 	0.839 	1.1 	4.2 	5.3 	3.8 	1.4 	1.0 	3.14 	3.10 	19.9
99-00 	LAL 	66 	62 	38.2 	0.468 	0.319 	0.821 	1.6 	4.7 	6.3 	4.9 	1.6 	0.9 	2.76 	3.30 	22.5
00-01 	LAL 	68 	68 	40.9 	0.464 	0.305 	0.853 	1.5 	4.3 	5.9 	5.0 	1.7 	0.6 	3.24 	3.30 	28.5
01-02 	LAL 	80 	80 	38.3 	0.469 	0.250 	0.829 	1.4 	4.1 	5.5 	5.5 	1.5 	0.4 	2.79 	2.90 	25.2
02-03 	LAL 	82 	82 	41.5 	0.451 	0.383 	0.843 	1.3 	5.6 	6.9 	5.9 	2.2 	0.8 	3.51 	2.70 	30.0
03-04 	LAL 	65 	64 	37.6 	0.438 	0.327 	0.852 	1.6 	3.9 	5.5 	5.1 	1.7 	0.4 	2.63 	2.70 	24.0
04-05 	LAL 	66 	66 	40.7 	0.433 	0.339 	0.816 	1.4 	4.5 	5.9 	6.0 	1.3 	0.8 	4.09 	2.60 	27.6
05-06 	LAL 	80 	80 	41.0 	0.450 	0.347 	0.850 	0.9 	4.4 	5.3 	4.5 	1.8 	0.4 	3.13 	2.90 	35.4
06-07 	LAL 	77 	77 	40.8 	0.463 	0.344 	0.868 	1.0 	4.7 	5.7 	5.4 	1.4 	0.5 	3.31 	2.70 	31.6
07-08 	LAL 	82 	82 	38.9 	0.459 	0.361 	0.840 	1.1 	5.2 	6.3 	5.4 	1.8 	0.5 	3.13 	2.80 	28.3
08-09 	LAL 	61 	61 	36.3 	0.474 	0.339 	0.868 	1.2 	4.3 	5.5 	4.9 	1.3 	0.4 	2.67 	2.20 	28.1
Career 	-- 	927 	779 	36.4 	0.455 	0.340 	0.840 	1.2 	4.1 	5.3 	4.6 	1.5 	0.5 	2.92 	2.70 	25.2

kobe is lasting longer but its clear who was the better scorer in his prime. and iverson was always better in the play offs. so when it mattered: iverson>kobe

Thanks for proving my point!! Look at Kobe's numbers after shaq left. Those woulda been his numbers if he had gone to a loser like AI and other stars went.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/

[milad]

is it just me, or are kobes numbers after shaq left still inferior to iverson at philly?

and how come iverson out-assisted kobe every single year of their careers even though kobe had shaq to pass to?

[teammelli34]

I loved him in his sixers days, he was my favorite player.
ever since he pisses me off

[Darvish11]

07-08 DEN 82 82 41.8 0.458 0.345 0.809 0.6 2.4 3.0 7.1 2.0 0.2 2.99 1.30 26.4

before everyone throws him under the bus, the guy averaged 26 points, 7 assists, and 3 steals LAST YEAR
Here is my personal opinion of why detroit/denver have been doing better without him. Its not his game, its his reputation. When you shoot the ball when iverson is on the court, there is a lot more pressure to hit it because you know the 3rd most prolific scorer of all time could be taking it. When youre playing a pick up game and you are the best player on the floor, you are a lot more comfortable. But when youre running with the varsity players, you are not the same. First and foremost he takes a fraction of the shots that he used to, so he certainly isnt hogging it. But its not his fault stuckey, tayshaun, and rasheed go 2-10. I believe part of that is mental.

Although it is clear that he isnt the same player he was, and i understand if you say something like that. But to just dismiss his whole career!? Keep in mind, he is 6 feet tall! Have yall ever met someone 7 feet tall, let alone played basketball with them? For a guy that size to average as much as 33 points in a season, almost entirely in front of the 3 point line, is simply astounding to me.

O and one more thing, do you remember why rip was on the bench? Because they were losing when he was in the lineup, then HE got hurt, then stuckey and iverson won like 9 out of 10. Just fyi

ps its wierd how both iverson and kobe played all 82 games twice, and it was the same 2 years. Hmm.

[persianbruin]

is it just me, or are kobes numbers after shaq left still inferior to iverson at philly?

and how come iverson out-assisted kobe every single year of their careers even though kobe had shaq to pass to?

AI was a PG mainly. It was HIS JOB to assist!! Kobe is a shooting gaurd. YOu know, the guy who is supposed to shoot!

I dont know why we are arguing!! Except for 2001, I never herad anyone even bring up the topic that AI was better than Kobe and the reason is that its not even close. It has never been and it will never be. The rationale they used to vote him MVP was that he was more valuable to his team not that he was better. AI only thinks about himself. They were good in 2001 becasue they were a great defensive team with snow, mutombo, lynch and hill. It was their defense that put them where they were and for that reason, AI's teams have never been successful. Now if you like him because of his style good for you. But just say he is your favorite player.

Have you ever heard people say: who is better MJ or AI?? You never hear that!! NEVER!! becasue even the discussion is ridiculous. NOw Kobe is not as good as MJ was, but at least its close enough that the argument is always there.

[teammelli34]

since were on the topic of the seasons before this, back when i was really involved in watching NBA it was like TMAC kobe and AI, TMAC was amazing at that time, i had his shoes how is tmac now?

[mkbf2]

never liked him.... he was part of a culture at Georgetown that mocked racially equality in sports and looked down at all the local DC area state schools (UVA and UMD)

John Thompson III or JT3 NEVER recruited any white players or anyone other than a black player and then to add to that he would talk about how unis like maryland and virginia lower their standards to bring in talent. Little does he think of his own; iverson, ewing come on. But i digress

Iverson is a joke and has always been a joke. those scoring titles dont mean shit. he never won a NBA title nor was he ever a team player. Hey he even got one of the best coaches in Larry Brown to be fired!

[milad]

AI was a PG mainly. It was HIS JOB to assist!! Kobe is a shooting gaurd. YOu know, the guy who is supposed to shoot!
I dont know why we are arguing!! Except for 2001, I never herad anyone even bring up the topic that AI was better than Kobe and the reason is that its not even close. It has never been and it will never be. The rationale they used to vote him MVP was that he was more valuable to his team not that he was better. AI only thinks about himself. They were good in 2001 becasue they were a great defensive team with snow, mutombo, lynch and hill. It was their defense that put them where they were and for that reason, AI's teams have never been successful. Now if you like him because of his style good for you. But just say he is your favorite player.
Have you ever heard people say: who is better MJ or AI?? You never hear that!! NEVER!! becasue even the discussion is ridiculous. NOw Kobe is not as good as MJ was, but at least its close enough that the argument is always there.

nice try, but all those years in philly he was shooting guard and he still owned kobe at assists. i dont care about others stats. when you are comparing 2 guards and one is better at scoring, assists, and steals, its obvious who the better guard is.

[persianbruin]

It was reported yesterday that the pistons chances of making the playoffs increased 10 fold. Don't miss the last sentence of the report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

[milad]

lol i see you still dont have an answer to iversons superiority during both players prime. i guess you have nothing else to offer so im out.

[EKBATAN]

kobe > iverson


no doubt! stats dont explain everything...kobe has 3 championships and 2 runner ups at finals....iverson had 1 runner up in finals i believe which they were swept or lost 4-1
iverson was in a crappy team so he did all the work, as opposed to kobe who was in a world class team, so u cant compare stats.....overall if i was to pick a team, i'd pick kobe cuz i can trust him more than iverson