The Kobe Thread

[Babak]

Btw, persianbruin, is my check in the mail yet? This is hard work you know...

[persianbruin]

Btw, persianbruin, is my check in the mail yet? This is hard work you know...

lol! dude I think the message was loud and clear why I did not respond in this thread but I guess not. just enjoy the greatness yourself like the rest of the world and don't bother with the haters. I don;t need approval of a bunch of peaple who were fetuses when MJ was playing that Kobe is better. The haters will always be haters regardless of how many championships or MVPs he wins! So just enjoy it and one day you can tell your kids that you saw the greatest ever to play during his peak

I'm sure a Bulls fan who grew up idolizing Jordan will be the most unbiased source of opinion for this discussion. Keep in mind that Jordan would not have cemented his status as the greatest player of all time if he hadn't come back to win his 2nd pair of 3 championships. He didn't get his 4th ring until age 33. Kobe already has #4 at age 31. He is also every bit the athlete and skilled as Jordan was, so there's no reason to think he "can't" eclipse Jordan. There is nothing Jordan could do that Kobe can't, including the intangibles and "clutchness".
Here's the bottom line: Jordan is the greatest ever. Kobe is working hard to reach that level, and anyone who thinks he isn't capable of reaching that status when it's all said and done is either delusional or incredibly biased and close minded. Having said that, he has a huge hill left to climb still, and it's likely he may never get to that level.

Bingo!

[Babak]

Can't have a Kobe thread without the playoff buzzer beater against the Suns:

[ommy48]

Who can forget when Kobe lit up Jordan for 42 points in the 1st half and 55 for the game?

Wow babak is as delusional about this topic as he is about his fantasy bball team and lets not even discuss persianbruin's claims which are easily refutable with objective things called stats, unfortunately for him merely saying something does not make it reality. But kudos to you for posting videos of Jordan in his 40's with terrible knee tendinitis that caused him to have multiple shots before each game just to be able to play (and he still avg'd 20 a game and put up 50 multiple times). I love how I am viewed as biased but persianbruin and Babak's nuthugging is not

Keep believing that Kobe is better, and enjoy your delusional minority status, like the 20% of Americans who believe that Santa Claus is real. Unfortunately for you your words are all that justifies Kobe's fake GOAT status (persianbruin thinks that he is the greatest RIGHT NOW regardless of what Kobe does the rest of his career which is so absurd that it causes me to chuckle at his statements all the more), things like stats don't exist to justify your statements. This argument is old, and countless people have already shown with empirical evidence how absurd such claims are.

And lol at babak saying how Kobe has nothing that MJ didn't have in terms of athleticism or skills, apparently he is one those fetuses that persianbruin is talking about who never saw MJ play the between 1984-1990. If he did and still thinks that then your credibility as a bball evaluator is fairly suspect. But alas this argument is as tired and pointless as they come because one side has nothing to bring to the table in terms of facts or stats to back up their words...but but but Kobe was an all-star at 20, my god that is proof!

lol and tmac will also be an all-star despite not playing all year, does that cement his greatness? IT'S CALLED FAN VOTING AND THERE ARE A LOT OF DELUSIONAL LAKER FANS, JUST LIKE THERE ARE A LOT OF ROCKETS FANS IN CHINA.

save your tired arguments babak, cause I got better things to do than prove that 2+2=4 and that MJ=GOAT.

[milad]

^i agree. even iverson in his prime was better than kobe. more ppg and assists per game and steals per game which is what matters most for a guard.

[Babak]

Wow babak is as delusional about this topic as he is about his fantasy bball team and lets not even discuss persianbruin's claims which are easily refutable with objective things called stats, unfortunately for him merely saying something does not make it reality. But kudos to you for posting videos of Jordan in his 40's with terrible knee tendinitis that caused him to have multiple shots before each game just to be able to play (and he still avg'd 20 a game and put up 50 multiple times). I love how I am viewed as biased but persianbruin and Babak's nuthugging is not
Keep believing that Kobe is better, and enjoy your delusional minority status, like the 20% of Americans who believe that Santa Claus is real. Unfortunately for you your words are all that justifies Kobe's fake GOAT status (persianbruin thinks that he is the greatest RIGHT NOW regardless of what Kobe does the rest of his career which is so absurd that it causes me to chuckle at his statements all the more), things like stats don't exist to justify your statements. This argument is old, and countless people have already shown with empirical evidence how absurd such claims are.
And lol at babak saying how Kobe has nothing that MJ didn't have in terms of athleticism or skills, apparently he is one those fetuses that persianbruin is talking about who never saw MJ play the between 1984-1990. If he did and still thinks that then your credibility as a bball evaluator is fairly suspect. But alas this argument is as tired and pointless as they come because one side has nothing to bring to the table in terms of facts or stats to back up their words...but but but Kobe was an all-star at 20, my god that is proof!
lol and tmac will also be an all-star despite not playing all year, does that cement his greatness? IT'S CALLED FAN VOTING AND THERE ARE A LOT OF DELUSIONAL LAKER FANS, JUST LIKE THERE ARE A LOT OF ROCKETS FANS IN CHINA.
save your tired arguments babak, cause I got better things to do than prove that 2+2=4 and that MJ=GOAT.

I don't see anything worthwhile to respond to in your post. Just a lot of heated "K&S" in there from a guy who starts getting angry and blowing steam when he runs out of logical responses to arguments.

The Kobe vs. Jordan videos weren't meant to, and don't constitute "proof" that Kobe is "better" than Jordan. They were simple noteworthy highlights deserving of mention in a Kobe thread involving some of his top NBA moments. If you can't understand a simple, elementary concept like that, then I really can't help you.

If you want to discuss my points in a coherent and logical manner one step at a time, then be my guest. But if you want to keep giving your tired "opinion", save it for someone who cares. At this point, I'd rather listen to the homeless guy on the street who keeps screaming something to me about Jesus being my savior.

[djmo]

Jordan is a better player, but Kobe's career is not done yet, if he racks up say 2-3 more titles, then these Bryant vs. Michael comparisons definitely are not as ludicrious as some people are claiming they are.

Kobe is just getting better with age. While I think Michael is naturally a better athlete (he has bigger hands), but Kobe outworks everyone, maybe even Michael. Anyway, listen to Phil Jackson compare the two.

[Babak]

Jordan is a better player, but Kobe's career is not done yet, if he racks up say 2-3 more titles, then these Jordan vs. Michael comparisons definitely are not as ludicrious as some people are claiming they are.

Kobe is just getting better with age. While I think Michael is naturally a better athlete (he has bigger hands), but Kobe outworks everyone, maybe even Michael. Anyway, listen to Phil Jackson compare the two.

So Phil Jackson, the man who coached both players agrees that Kobe has better "basketball skills" than Jordan did. He also says he was a better shooter, although Jordan had better physical skills and a stronger interior game.

Thanks for sharing djmo. But I'm gona have to disagree with Phil Jackson and go with ommy's undoubtedly correct opinion since his basketball knowledge is far superior to that of Phil Jacksons.

[djmo]

So Phil Jackson, the man who coached both players agrees that Kobe has better "basketball skills" than Jordan did. He also says he was a better shooter, although Jordan had better physical skills and a stronger interior game.
Thanks for sharing djmo. But I'm gona have to disagree with Phil Jackson and go with ommy's undoubtedly correct opinion since his basketball knowledge is far superior to that of Phil Jacksons.

I think this year the Magic/ Celts will put up a good fight against the Lakers, so Kobe will have to work hard again to add to his ring collection. As I said, it's the amt of rings you win and personal skill set. Both Kobe and Michael made everyone around them better. Kobe still has 3-4 more GREAT years left, so maybe he'll win more rings than Michael. Who knows.

p.s. my political discussions are logical and unbiased, in my view , the only bad part of it is my criticism of members on this board, which are sometimes emotionally charged and out of line. Otherwise, the message is the same, screw IR . hehe.

[djmo]

Also, Kobe vs. Michael the person is not even close. Everyone that knows Michael will tell you he's a real as$hole, while Kobe is not really known as one.

I know it's not bball skills, but it's important for a fan like me to know how they kind of are off the court.

[PersianMadrid7]

I don't think it's fair to compare players from the past so directly towards players right now.

Example: Maradona vs. Messi. Maradona was the greatest because of his domination. And Messi for the same regard. But head to head Messi is a much better player athletically simply because he was born in an era where competition is more fierce. Put Maradona's talent in today's era and you might even see a better player simply because of competition/difficulty that helps his skill level.

Same goes for Jordan - Bryant. Even though this comparison has less years in between, Kobe has a slight edge in terms of skill simply because competition now is more fierce then it was less than a decade ago. If you are someone who looks closely at the level of difficulty that Kobe is able to achieve in his plays, I don't think you can compare him to anyone else. But you could also argue that if Jordan played at the level of difficulty/competition today, he could have even been a better player.

[ommy48]

Seasons:
MJ: 13 as a Bull & 2 as a Wizard
KB: 12

Scoring Titles:
Jordan: 10 (the record)
Bryant: 2

Highest Single Season PPG Average:
MJ: 37.1 ppg ( 1987 season)
KBt: 35. 4 ppg ( 2006 season)

Seasons Averaging 30 Or More Points:
MJ: 8 (the record)
KB: 3

Postseasons Averaging 30 or More Points:
MJ: 12 (the record)
KB: 3

Career High:
MJ: 69
KB: 81

Postseason Career High:
MJ: 63 (the record)
KB: 50

Career PPG Average:
MJ: 30.1 ppg (the season record)
KB: 25.0 ppg

Career Playoff PPG Average:
MJ: 33.4 ppg (the record)
KB: 24.3 ppg

Highest PPG Average In A NBA Finals Series:
MJ: 41.0 ppg (the finals record, 1993 finals)
KB: 26.8 ppg ( 2002 finals )

Career FG%:
MJ: 49. 7 FG%
KBt: 45. 3 FG%

Seasons Averaging A 50% FG% Or More:
MJ: 6
KB: 0

60 Point Games Or More:
MJ: 5
KB: 4

50 Point Postseason Games:
MJ: 8
KB: 1

Percentage of 50+ point games against teams with winning records

Michael Jordan: 71%
Kobe Bryant: 35%



Record in games with 30+ shot attempts

Michael Jordan: 72-57 (.558)
Kobe Bryant: 33-43 (.434)



Percentage of points scored on free throws

Michael Jordan: 23%
Kobe Bryant: 26%



Percentage of points scored on two point field goals

Michael Jordan: 72%
Kobe Bryant: 59%



Three point field goal attempts per game

Michael Jordan: 1.66
Kobe Bryant: 3.69



Career PER

Michael Jordan: 27.91
Kobe Bryant: 23.57


Highest PER season

Michael Jordan: 31.71
Kobe Bryant: 27.97


Seasons with 30+ PER

Michael Jordan: 4
Kobe Bryant: 0



Seasons with 28+ PER

Michael Jordan: 7
Kobe Bryant: 0



Seasons with 25+ PER

Michael Jordan: 12
Kobe Bryant: 3

Shooting in 50 point games

Of the 143 50 point games since 1986 in the regular season, Michael Jordan has the #1, #5 and #8 games in terms of shooting percentage. He has three more in the top 25. Kobe's most efficient game is #12.

Kobe Bryant has the three worst shooting 50 point games not only since 1986, but the three worst 50 point games (in terms of efficiency) in NBA history. These are among the few games in history in which a player scored 50 points, but didn't even make half of his shots from the field. In other words, these are achievements of volume shooting, not efficiency. But these aren't flukes, either. In terms of shooting, Kobe also has 7 of the 15 worst, and 10 of the 25 worst 50 point games since 1986. That's half of all of his 50 point efforts. Jordan has merely one game in the bottom 25.


Jordan's #1, #5 and #8 games

24-29, 52 points, Nov. 16, 1988

21-27, 59 points, April 3, 1988

21-28, 53 points, March 7, 1996

Kobe's 3 worst 50 pt. games in history

17-38, 53 points, December 15, 2006

19-44, 53 points, March 30, 2007

17-41, 50 points, January 7, 2006

[ommy48]

[ommy48]

Scoring
Rebounding

Jordan was a far superior rebounder. Bryant has averaged over six rebounds a game only three times in his career and never managed to average more than seven rebounds in a single game. Jordan, on the other hand, averaged more six rebounds per game nine times in his career which includes a season in which he averaged eight rebounds per game. Jordan was particularly good at getting boards at key times in the game and could dominate that area in spurts to win when it counted. Bryant has never yet been able to do this.

Steals

Jordan average more than 2.2 steals per game nine times in his career while Bryant has managed this only once. Jordan filled the passing lanes for the entire game and was always a threat; Bryant seems to pick and choose when he plays that kind of defense. Thus, Jordan has better steal stats.

Field Goal Percentage


Not once has Bryant averaged more than 50% from the field for a season. Jordan, though, made more than 50% of his shots 6 times in his career without shooting nearly as many three pointers. That means Jordan was far more efficient offensively.



Assists

Bryant is getting much better at setting up his teammates but only once has he averaged six assists a game. Jordan averaged more than six assists three times, including

Blocks
Turnovers

[ommy48]

Michael Jordan recorded 10 or more points, rebounds and assists 28 times in the regular season, twice in the playoffs and he has the only triple-double ever in an All-Star Game.
In the 1988-89 season he had 15. including an incredible streak of 7 consecutive and 10 in 11 games that started on March 25, 1989.

Triple-Doubles in the 1988-89 Regular Season

Date Opponent W/L Result Points Rebounds Assists

6 Jan 3, 1989 vs Los Angeles Clippers W 126-121 41 10 11
7 Jan 13, 1989 vs Denver Nuggets W 104-99 38 12 11
8 Jan 31, 1989 vs Detroit Pistons L 104-98 21 12 10
9


Mar 13, 1989 vs Indiana Pacers W 122-90 21 14 14
10 Mar 25, 1989 at Seattle Supersonics W 111-110 21 12 12
11 Mar 28, 1989 vs Golden State Warriors W 115-106 33 12 11
12 Mar 29, 1989 at Milwaukee Bucks W 106-102 32 10 10
13 Mar 31, 1989 vs Cleveland Cavaliers L 109-100 37 10 10
14 Apr 2, 1989 vs New Jersey Nets W 106-95 27 14 12
15 Apr 4, 1989 vs Charlotte Hornets W 121-101 33 10 12
16 Apr 6, 1989 at Detroit Pistons L 115-108 31 13 10
17 Apr 9, 1989 at Atlanta Hawks L 108-100 40 10 12
18 Apr 13, 1989 at Indiana Pacers L 109-105 47 11 13
19 Apr 14, 1989 at New Jersey Nets L 123-111 29 10 12
20 Apr 21, 1989 vs Washington Bullets W 115-113 34 14 11