Bosnia is having a horrible EURO 2016 campaign

[O-ZoNe]

You guys are acting like such uninformed fans.

Bosnia was missing its two best players and the played the 2nd half a man down.

It's only Bosnia's fault they played with a man down. They lost to a European and World football minnow, even if they played their B team they should have won against Israel. In all fairness, Europe this year looks topsy turvy, Faroe Islands beat Greece and that is certainly a bigger upset!

[rugs]

Re: Bosnia is having a horrible EURO 2016 campaign

It's only Bosnia's fault they played with a man down. They lost to a European and World football minnow, even if they played their B team they should have won against Israel. In all fairness, Europe this year looks topsy turvy, Faroe Islands beat Greece and that is certainly a bigger upset!

It doesn't matter, the point is, it's not the same team that played us.

Forgot to mention that both Bicakcic and Kolasinac are also injured.

That's 4 out of their 6 best players.

They're in such bad shape that they asked Spahic to come out of retirement.

[Doctor DOOM]

So the Jews beat the Muslims, eh?



That ought to hurt.

[perspolis#1]

They are an inconsistent team. Against us, they were angry and motivated to get a win, especially after being cheated in the Nigeria game. They are capable of slipping up and losing to Israel and Cyprus as much as we are with Lebanon and Qatar. They only have two attacking talents on their team (Dzeko/Ibisevic), both injured. Their best player is Pjanic who can't do everything by himself. It was also reported that their new youngster, Besic(plays for Everton as a CDM) argued with the coach at halftime and got subbed out. They need to qualify for this Euro to continue their meteoric rise. Next world cup, Dzeko and Ibisevic will be in their 30's, and the rest of their midfield(except Besic) in their late 20's and early 30's.

[xerexes]

If we're going to use Bosnia's games against other teams as a criteria for how we should have fared against them, wouldn't it makes sense to at least use the ones from the WC as opposed to now?

Regardless of their current form (not to mention crucial injuries), Bosnia was actually the better side against all 3 teams they played in Brazil. They were screwed against both Nigeria and Argentina. They deserved at least a draw if not an outright win in each of those games and were by no means the toothless pushovers they're being made out to be in this thread.

[Abedzadeh]

If we're going to use Bosnia's games against other teams as a criteria for how we should have fared against them, wouldn't it makes sense to at least use the ones from the WC as opposed to now?
Regardless of their current form (not to mention crucial injuries), Bosnia was actually the better side against all 3 teams they played in Brazil. They were screwed against both Nigeria and Argentina. They deserved at least a draw if not an outright win in each of those games and were by no means the toothless pushovers they're being made out to be in this thread.

Very well said. It is also important to note that our match against Bosnia occurred in the context of a tournament setting, where we first played 2 very strong/world class opponents in quick succession (the reigning champions of Africa, as well as a perennial title contender) with little turnaround time between matches. Our national team is not used to playing matches against opponents of this stature in this type of back to back to back format. It is only natural that our players will be relatively depleted for the third and final match after playing two such strong opponents.

Bosnia played a great match against Argentina, and had a completely legitimate goal wrongfully disallowed against Nigeria. Likewise, the goal they conceded against Nigeria came after a foul that was wrongfully not called by the ref (by a Nigerian on a Bosnian player). As a result of not receiving the points that they justifiably should have earned from their first two matches, they played for pride against us in their final match, which made them more dangerous. As Mehrdad Pooladi said in the post-match interview, if we played against Bosnia on the first match-day, we would have most likely seen a different performance & result from Team Melli.

In complete contrast, today's Bosnia/Israel match did not occur in the context of a tournament setting, but rather an isolated/stand-alone fixture; it's not as if Israel just came off two tough/draining matches against a reigning continental champion, and one of the world's top teams within a week of each other. Not to mention all the other factors that Rugs and Xerxes jaan mentioned (player injuries, playing a man down for a significant period of time, etc).

[Paradigm]

Highlights below... not such a good quality footage but it looks like Bosnia-Herzegovina was caught on counter-attacks for the last two goals:

Israel has a forward with name Damari who is currently the joint leading goal scorer of the EC '16 qualifications. He scored the 2nd goal in this match.

Results page: http://int.soccerway.com/internation...-round/r24218/

Hala Esrail va Ghebres Bosni ra az k**n kard, hahaha

^

[Bi-honar]

Very well said. It is also important to note that our match against Bosnia occurred in the context of a tournament setting, where we first played 2 very strong/world class opponents in quick succession (the reigning champions of Africa, as well as a perennial title contender) with little turnaround time between matches. Our national team is not used to playing matches against opponents of this stature in this type of back to back to back format. It is only natural that our players will be relatively depleted for the third and final match after playing two such strong opponents.

Bosnia played a great match against Argentina, and had a completely legitimate goal wrongfully disallowed against Nigeria. Likewise, the goal they conceded against Nigeria came after a foul that was wrongfully not called by the ref (by a Nigerian on a Bosnian player). As a result of not receiving the points that they justifiably should have earned from their first two matches, they played for pride against us in their final match, which made them more dangerous. As Mehrdad Pooladi said in the post-match interview, if we played against Bosnia on the first match-day, we would have most likely seen a different performance & result from Team Melli.

In complete contrast, today's Bosnia/Israel match did not occur in the context of a tournament setting, but rather an isolated/stand-alone fixture; it's not as if Israel just came off two tough/draining matches against a reigning continental champion, and one of the world's top teams within a week of each other. Not to mention all the other factors that Rugs and Xerxes jaan mentioned (player injuries, playing a man down for a significant period of time, etc).

Everything you said here applies to Iran just as much as it did to Bosnia. They also played the same two opponents. Iran also played a GREAT game (much better than Bosnia IMHO) against Argentina. If they deserved a draw against Nigeria, they would have just achieved as much as we did.

And the condition of back-to-back games applied to both teams. If anything, this was Bosnia's 1st ever tournament and we had been there many many times before, not just in the WC but in the Asian Cup - experience was on our side, not theirs.

The only thing that made the difference was that Susic fielded 5 fresh players for the game against Iran (i.e. half his team was fresh and motivated) and CQ didn't field even one new player - same line-up, same tactics, lots of fatigue. But the worst part was that instead of taking responsibility for this terrible blunder, he actually blamed it on the talent of players who had been giving him 110% in the previous two games.

In that CQ was out-coached in that game and made some shameful remarks after, there should be no argument. All we can do now is hope that he learnt something from that game and won't be making the same mistake in the Asian Cup where we'll also be playing back-to-back games - and even more of them.

[Ali.Karimi79]

Bosnia is having a horrible EURO 2016 campaign

Why is this thread in the Main forum? Who cares about Bosnia. We are having Asian Cup ahead and should focus on ourselves.
WC is history.

[xerexes]

BH jan, if CQ was as dismissive and disrespectful toward our players and their talent as we are to believe, why would the players be crying in the locker room after the Bosnia game and begging Kaffashian to keep the guy? This is something that hasn't happened in all the years I've followed team melli. In fact most of the time it's pretty much the opposite scenario.

As for Sucic fielding five new players, of course he had that luxury when his team was already eliminated. You often see coaches let the reserves get a chance in the last game when the team's already out. But you rarely see a team change half its lineup from one game to the next in a tournament in the absence of injuries and red cards, especially when the lineup has performed as well as ours had in the previous match.

I'm also confused about your assessment of our performance compared to Bosnia's. I thought the line was we had only done well for 45 minutes against Argentina with everything else being a 'bus parking failure'. How does that compare to Bosnia dominating Argentina and Nigeria and deserving to beat both?

[rugs]

Everything you said here applies to Iran just as much as it did to Bosnia. They also played the same two opponents. Iran also played a GREAT game (much better than Bosnia IMHO) against Argentina. If they deserved a draw against Nigeria, they would have just achieved as much as we did.
And the condition of back-to-back games applied to both teams. If anything, this was Bosnia's 1st ever tournament and we had been there many many times before, not just in the WC but in the Asian Cup - experience was on our side, not theirs.
The only thing that made the difference was that Susic fielded 5 fresh players for the game against Iran (i.e. half his team was fresh and motivated) and CQ didn't field even one new player - same line-up, same tactics, lots of fatigue. But the worst part was that instead of taking responsibility for this terrible blunder, he actually blamed it on the talent of players who had been giving him 110% in the previous two games.
In that CQ was out-coached in that game and made some shameful remarks after, there should be no argument. All we can do now is hope that he learnt something from that game and won't be making the same mistake in the Asian Cup where we'll also be playing back-to-back games - and even more of them.

I don't understand the logic of people who are comparing Iran and Bosnia. We are not comparing country size. We are comparing two football teams comprised of players and coaches.

You are ignoring one of CQ's greatest concerns for our team and that is fitness.

Bosnia's team was stacked full of players playing in top world leagues day in and day out at top fitness levels. Their only domestic player was their backup keeper. Do you not think that there would be a difference in performance between those top league players and our team of 2nd rate league players and domestic players?

The team that played against us had the following number of players in the following leagues:

Germany: 4
England: 2
Italy: 1
Croatia: 2
Austria: 1
Turkey: 2

Not to mention Besic who got picked up by Everton. So that's 3 Premier League starters, 4 Bundesliga starters and 1 Serie A Phenom.

I don't see how you don't see that this is a huge difference in terms of fitness alone.

[Bi-honar]

BH jan, if CQ was as dismissive and disrespectful toward our players and their talent as we are to believe, why would the players be crying in the locker room after the Bosnia game and begging Kaffashian to keep the guy? This is something that hasn't happened in all the years I've followed team melli. In fact most of the time it's pretty much the opposite scenario.

You're saying this bro as if he didn't make those comments publicly. These are the sentences that were exchanged after the match and you call if what you will (reality, the truth, whatever) - to me they're just weasel clauses and excuses:

Susic: CQ: He has players who play in Roma and Manchester City, and whom do I have?

As for Sucic fielding five new players, of course he had that luxury when his team was already eliminated. You often see coaches let the reserves get a chance in the last game when the team's already out. But you rarely see a team change half its lineup from one game to the next in a tournament in the absence of injuries and red cards, especially when the lineup has performed as well as ours had in the previous match.

I think it's more rare to play the exact same squad, without a single change, after two tough games and knowing full well that your squad is fatigued. In fact, I'll bet you anything that you'll be hard pressed to find another team that started with the exact same squad or a single player change in 3 consecutive games in this world cup (or even previous ones).

I'm also confused about your assessment of our performance compared to Bosnia's. I thought the line was we had only done well for 45 minutes against Argentina with everything else being a 'bus parking failure'. How does that compare to Bosnia dominating Argentina and Nigeria and deserving to beat both?

No, the line was that we played a "convincing" game against Argentina in the 2nd half. We achieved what we wanted to achieve in the game against Nigeria and first half of the Argentina game, even if we were not convincing (particularly against Nigeria where we had little to show). Now, it's your personal opinion that Bosnia dominated Argentina and Nigeria. As far as I'm concerned the scoreline in both of those games was a fair reflection and for a team that was supposed to be attack attack attack, they were well contained by both teams and Susic was out-coached in both of those games.

You are ignoring one of CQ's greatest concerns for our team and that is fitness.

All the more reasons not to have fielded virtually the same team in 3 consecutive games. I'm not ignoring that, you guys are ignoring that!

Bosnia's team was stacked full of players playing in top world leagues day in and day out at top fitness levels. Their only domestic player was their backup keeper. Do you not think that there would be a difference in performance between those top league players and our team of 2nd rate league players and domestic players?

As they were against Egypt and Cyprus, neither of which even had/have the level of talent and fitness (on paper since that's the only thing that's important to you) that TM did. And if they were so stacked a few players shouldn't have made a 3 goal difference against Israel.

And I have already debunked the myth that TM was not fit by the time the WC rolled around. Yes, we had fitness issues 4 months before the tournament, but we matched or outran all our 3 opponents in the group stage and that's based on facts and traveled distances and despite starting every game with 90% of the same squad.

-----------------------

At any rate boys, as the wise man said earlier the WC is over and we'll know in less than 24 hours where we stand now. As I said in another thread I am hopeful to be pleasantly surprised by CQ tomorrow. If he delivers, then what happened with Bosnia in the WC will be forgotten history.

But if he doesn't (heaven forbid) and blames the result on our players or Koreans having better players, blah blah blah, I will be VERY pissed.

[Kiarash]

You're saying this bro as if he didn't make those comments publicly. These are the sentences that were exchanged after the match and you call if what you will (really, the truth, whatever) - to me they're just weasel clauses and excuses:
Susic: CQ: He has players who play in Roma and Manchester City, and whom do I have?

I think it's more rare to play the exact same squad, without a single change, after two tough games and knowing full well that your squad is fatigued. In fact, I'll bet you anything that you'll be hard pressed to find another team that started with the exact same squad or a single player change in 3 consecutive games in this world cup (or even previous ones).
No, the line was that we played a "convincing" game against Argentina in the 2nd half. We achieved what we wanted to achieve in the game against Nigeria and first half of the Argentina game, even if we were not convincing (particularly against Nigeria where we had little to show). Now, it's your personal opinion that Bosnia dominated Argentina and Nigeria. As far as I'm concerned the scoreline in both of those games was a fair reflection and for a team that was supposed to be attack attack attack, they were well contained by both teams and Susic was out-coached in both of those games.

I often find myself disagreeing with you on CQ, but this post is very true and spot on. As much as I like CQ, defending him on many occasions..he did make some tactical blunders during the Bosnia game.

We played beautiful football against Argentina, who is another class above Bosnia. Losing to Bosnia was probably the most disturbing and unnecessary loss in our WC history so far. It took away our hopes to reach the R16 and not a single European scout picked up our players who apart from the Bosnia game did outstanding.

[Bi-honar]

I often find myself disagreeing with you on CQ, but this post is very true and spot on. As much as I like CQ, defending him on many occasions..he did make some tactical blunders during the Bosnia game.

We played beautiful football against Argentina, who is another class above Bosnia. Losing to Bosnia was probably the most disturbing and unnecessary loss in our WC history so far. It took away our hopes to reach the R16 and not a single European scout picked up our players who apart from the Bosnia game did outstanding.

Kiarash jaan, I was totally with CQ too and full heatedly supported him and TM. I was there waving at CQ when the TM bus arrived at the stadium for the Nigeria game. I was one of only 5 people there who sent them off on their way after their last training session in Sao Paolo before the Argentina game.

How we played against Bosnia broke my heart more than any other TM game I have ever seen (with the exception of maybe Scotland in 78 and Bahrain in 2011 WCQ), but it was even more heartbreaking to hear the Bosnia fans in the stadium saying why are you guys playing like this, you needed to win this game and then hearing Susic say the same thing after the game. And it's what CQ said after the game that really broke the bank for me.

Having said that, everybody makes mistakes and he made a few mistakes in that match and afterwards. Since we haven't had a chance to evaluate him any further in the past 5 months (and I think that's a HUGE problem), that's unfortunately the last memory we have from TM and one that we're stuck with until tomorrow.

I'm saying this again, I'm fully behind TM and CQ for tomorrow's game. If I had the means, I would have flown over to Iran just to see them in person again. I'm crossing my fingers that the Bosnia game was a one of and CQ has learnt his lesson from that painful memory. I want TM succeed and that's why I want to see some innovation and creativity in the game tomorrow. We all want what's best for TM - if that's CQ, then GREAT.

[Kiarash]

Beautifully spoken Bi-Honar! I agree 100%.