Are Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo now the two greatest ever footballers?

[Mr.Click]

KC jan it really isn't hard anymore to see them, I have literally seen all of them play on youtube, personally one of my favourite players ever is Beckenbauer, he was a complete genius, that being said I think Messi is more of a genius then him.

with all his greatness Messi could be contained, as our own boys showed in WC. On the other hand Beckenbauer, or even Rummingge for that matter, dominated their opponents and had leadership qualities that you can never find in either Messi or Ronaldo..

[Mr.Click]

Yes they are. Football is definitely tougher (less time, less space, less physical etc...) now than at Pele, Maradona, Beckbauer time

they show brilliance while paired up with the best stars that money can buy in their respective clubs, while they both choke on International level, not the case with Beckenbauer, Pele, etc.. what does that tell you?

[irani8perspolis]

they show brilliance while paired up with the best stars that money can buy in their respective clubs, while they both choke on International level, not the case with Beckenbauer, Pele, etc.. what does that tell you?

Ronaldo single handedly lead his team to the WC he is the record holder for most goals in UEFA int competions (WCQ, EQ, and Euro's). Did he choke against Sweden when he scored 3 beautiful goals to lead them to the WC? Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer all were part of some of the greatest footballing teams, even Messi had a great Argentinian team this WC. But what does Ronaldo have? Eder? Nani? Bruno Alves? Not exactly "world class" players, simply put Portugal would not make anymajor tournament without Ronaldo, but Argentina without Messi would, Pele's played on arguably the greatest footballing national team ever so don't even get me started on that. People claiming Ronaldo "chokes" on the international stage is as ludicrous as it gets, runners up in the Euro, semi finalist in the euro's, 4th place in the WC, lost 1-0 to eventual champions in R16 in WC, lost to eventual finalists 3-2 in QF of Euros. Sure he didn't do anything this world cup but to claim he simply chokes on the international stage is quite laughable.

[KC McElroy]

Ronaldo single handedly lead his team to the WC he is the record holder for most goals in UEFA int competions (WCQ, EQ, and Euro's). Did he choke against Sweden when he scored 3 beautiful goals to lead them to the WC? Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer all were part of some of the greatest footballing teams, even Messi had a great Argentinian team this WC. But what does Ronaldo have? Eder? Nani? Bruno Alves? Not exactly "world class" players, simply put Portugal would not make anymajor tournament without Ronaldo, but Argentina without Messi would, Pele's played on arguably the greatest footballing national team ever so don't even get me started on that. People claiming Ronaldo "chokes" on the international stage is as ludicrous as it gets, runners up in the Euro, semi finalist in the euro's, 4th place in the WC, lost 1-0 to eventual champions in R16 in WC, lost to eventual finalists 3-2 in QF of Euros. Sure he didn't do anything this world cup but to claim he simply chokes on the international stage is quite laughable.

Compare him to Eusebio, another Portuguese player. Actually don't, there is no comparison.

[PSGman#19]

they show brilliance while paired up with the best stars that money can buy in their respective clubs, while they both choke on International level, not the case with Beckenbauer, Pele, etc.. what does that tell you?

Pele, Beckenbauer were also paired with the bests in their national team.

I am sorry but Messi isn't surrounded by the best stars in his national team and was in the final of th WC. Di maria is the best but was often injuried during the cup, the same with Aguero. The rest of the team is laughable (Germany still thanks Higuain and Palacio for their misses)

[rugs]

Ronaldo single handedly lead his team to the WC he is the record holder for most goals in UEFA int competions (WCQ, EQ, and Euro's). Did he choke against Sweden when he scored 3 beautiful goals to lead them to the WC? Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer all were part of some of the greatest footballing teams, even Messi had a great Argentinian team this WC. But what does Ronaldo have? Eder? Nani? Bruno Alves? Not exactly "world class" players, simply put Portugal would not make anymajor tournament without Ronaldo, but Argentina without Messi would, Pele's played on arguably the greatest footballing national team ever so don't even get me started on that. People claiming Ronaldo "chokes" on the international stage is as ludicrous as it gets, runners up in the Euro, semi finalist in the euro's, 4th place in the WC, lost 1-0 to eventual champions in R16 in WC, lost to eventual finalists 3-2 in QF of Euros. Sure he didn't do anything this world cup but to claim he simply chokes on the international stage is quite laughable.

Who did Puskas have and look where he got.

[irani8perspolis]

Who did Puskas have and look where he got.

Kocsis 296 goals in 335 games (played for Barca), scored 11 goals at 54 WC. Joszef Bozsik one of the greatest central midfielders ever played his entire career at Honved. Hidegkuti 265 goals in 381 games. Compare that with what Ronaldo had for his WC team, Hugo Almeida 106 goals in 307 games, Eder 39 goals in 156 games (yes he is a striker) and no goals in 16 games for Portugal. Nani whom the word "pass" is not in his dictionary. Joao Moutinho, greatest ever honour is winning Porto player of the year in 2012-13, 2 goals in 72 int appearances. Fabio Coentrao 50 games with Real Madrid over THREE years. Pepe, arguebly the only quality player beside Ronaldo on this team,one of the best CB in the world atm, unfortunately got himself suspended. Bruno Alves plays in TURKEY in TURKEY, 30 games in 2 years for Fenerbahce. Lastly Beto, a above average goalkeeper at best, literally has no individual awards.

[rugs]

Kocsis 296 goals in 335 games (played for Barca), scored 11 goals at 54 WC. Joszef Bozsik one of the greatest central midfielders ever played his entire career at Honved. Hidegkuti 265 goals in 381 games. Compare that with what Ronaldo had for his WC team, Hugo Almeida 106 goals in 307 games, Eder 39 goals in 156 games (yes he is a striker) and no goals in 16 games for Portugal. Nani whom the word "pass" is not in his dictionary. Joao Moutinho, greatest ever honour is winning Porto player of the year in 2012-13, 2 goals in 72 int appearances. Fabio Coentrao 50 games with Real Madrid over THREE years. Pepe, arguebly the only quality player beside Ronaldo on this team,one of the best CB in the world atm, unfortunately got himself suspended. Bruno Alves plays in TURKEY in TURKEY, 30 games in 2 years for Fenerbahce. Lastly Beto, a above average goalkeeper at best, literally has no individual awards.

I don't see how you don't come to the same conclusion.

Portugal is stacked with players who either play or have played at top clubs: Nani, Almeida, Alves, Pepe, Meireles, Contrao, Moutinho, etc...

How is that comparable to what Puskas had?

[irani8perspolis]

I don't see how you don't come to the same conclusion.

Portugal is stacked with players who either play or have played at top clubs: Nani, Almeida, Alves, Pepe, Meireles, Contrao, Moutinho, etc...

How is that comparable to what Puskas had?

You do realize Hungary's league in the 50s was one of the best leagues in the world with teams like Ferencvaros (who have won the Cup winners Cup), MTK Budapest (runners up in Cup winners Cup), and Ujpest (2x semi finalist of cup winners cup) ? Puskas arguebly played on one of the greatest footballing teams ever and the players i mentioned are all regarded as some of the greatest of their generation. Now are you comparing those players to Nani, Almeida, Alves, Meireles, Coentrao, and Moutinho? Nani at his peak was a great player but that ended in 2012 with him, Almeida's best team he has ever been a part of was a Werder Bremen team that won the Europa League and finished last in their CL group the following year he scored 63 goals in a 173 games in his prime with Bremen (0.36 gpg), compare that with Kocsis who was Puskas strike partner who scored 296 goals in 335 games (0.88gpg) who win the Spanish League twice with Barca and the inter-cities fairs cup once. Lets move on to Bruno Alves played for Porto from 2001 to 2010 but was loaned out to AEK Athens in the year they won the CL, his best years were from 2006 to 2010 for Porto where his team won 3 league titles and virtually did nothing in the CL, nowadays he is a mediocre defender at best who plays for Turkey's 3rd best team. And comparing Coentrao to the teammates Puskas had is quite disrespectful in 4 seasons with RM he has only featured 90 (50 in the league) times for RM and scored 1 goal! He is the 2nd choice leftback for RM and was injured in the first match at the WC. Pepe is a world class defender and is the only player on this Portugal team (alongside with Ronaldo) that would start on that Hungary team of the 50s. Meireles and Moutinho are (moutinho) and were (meirles) great players but it is not comparable to the mighty magyars

[EKBATAN]

and to consider goal record of messi and ronaldo is a joke; they are part of super teams where each position is like 50 mil. players and their competition in la liga is a joke. they are scoring 4-6 goals each game so yea their goal tally will be huge. sure they score in CL and WC too but i like to see them in some of the previous teams of 90s and early 2000s and see how they'll do. call me biased but players like baggio, romario, zidane were just as good.

[EKBATAN]

These two players aside, football just isn't what it used to be. Maybe it's just me but I thoroughly enjoyed watching the previous generation (Zidane, Davids, Figo, Raul, Totti, Maldini, Seedorf, Batistuta, etc.) a lot more than the current one. I also miss Serie A of the 1990s and early 2000s. Good times...

well said

they have killed the game by over spending and commercials. its one big jagh fest in the media and internet over 4-5 teams that buy ALL the top talent around the world and wont even let teams like Juve, dortmund, atletico, napoli, etc...to even build a team to compete. every transfer window all the top players get soaked up, half of them disappear into the mix if they get injured to go on bench. its so sad that such good players go from hero to just average because a super team decides that another player is better or that the media makes it look like they are shit now. i mean the list is endless with these types of names...

like you mentioned back in the 90s and early 2000s, the talent was more spread, a lot of teams surprised, now days its rare and usually the stacked teams will beat the other team 9 out of 10 times. just kills the excitement of the game. and when you watch sports shows, they hardly cover the other teams everything is mess this, ronaldo that....mixed with the top 4-5 beloved BPL teams.

[hzv]

Lol Pele played football without offside, of course he would score a lot more, plus he played in the brazilian league.

Ronaldo and Messi in the last few years have both managed to keep their goal scoring rate above 1 goal/game. I would say they probably are the best. I haven't seen Maradona Beckenbauer, Pele, Puskas, Eusebio etc play except for some highlights on youtube, but football is definitely a lot harder today than it was back then. I would say chances are that they are the best ever, but kind of hard to say. People tend to hype these old players (mostly the people who haven't even seen them play). They make strikers like Suarez, Aguero, Benzema, etc, whom are all world class strikers, yet who don't score more than 1 goal/game look bad. That alone says a lot.